Blackdogs Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 In light of recent BSL related threads I thought you all might be interested in watching this fun video of different breeds playing in harmony. Breeds I've spotted in this video include, Neopolitan Mastiffs, Staffies, Amstaffs, white fluffies, Jack Russells, Rottweilers, Labradors, Golden Retrievers, British Bulldogs, German Shepherds, Staghounds, Malamutes, Border Collies and other dogs of mixed breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 A few observations: Whilst many breeds are present, not all dogs interact. A significant number of dogs are on lead. There is heavy owner supervision and control. I don't think any of it is a bad thing but if someone was to suggest that this is a good example of why all dogs can play together "in harmony" , I'm not sure it proves it. It certainly doesn't resemble what I see happening at local dog parks where its more of a free for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdogs Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) A few observations: Whilst many breeds are present, not all dogs interact. A significant number of dogs are on lead. There is heavy owner supervision and control. I don't think any of it is a bad thing but if someone was to suggest that this is a good example of why all dogs can play together "in harmony" , I'm not sure it proves it. It certainly doesn't resemble what I see happening at local dog parks where its more of a free for all. I'm not trying to prove that all dogs of any breed will always get along with all other dogs at any time in any context. I think, rather, it's a good example of what can be achieved with the correct supervision, control and socialisation. The point is, that breed does not have to be an issue. Edited October 4, 2011 by Blackdogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Breed does not have to be an issue. Agree - to a point. Any interaction between a 3kg dog and a 65kg dog will have its issues. Some breeds also have temperaments that will make them more or less open to play invitations from others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdogs Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 Breed does not have to be an issue. Agree - to a point. Any interaction between a 3kg dog and a 65kg dog will have its issues. Some breeds also have temperaments that will make them more or less open to play invitations from others. Well, I think it's about being sensible and knowing your dog. I've known people to own both mastiffs and chihuahuas with few problems, so I will have to disagree with the sweeping statement that 'any' interaction between dogs of differing sizes has its issues. In relation to your second point, again, it's about correct socialisation and management of the breed. To reiterate, it obviously 'can' be done under the right circumstances, as illustrated by this video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) To reiterate, it obviously 'can' be done under the right circumstances, as illustrated by this video. To reiterate, there's not a lot of 'playing in harmony' going on in that video. Not all interaction is 'play'. A few dogs of roughly equivalent size play but that's it. Edited October 4, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdogs Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 To reiterate, it obviously 'can' be done under the right circumstances, as illustrated by this video. To reiterate, there's not a lot of 'playing in harmony' going on in that video. Not all interaction is 'play'. A few dogs of roughly equivalent size play but that's it. I'm not going to go back through the video to point out which breeds are interacting with which at which time and in which manner because I honestly can't be bothered. It seems that the majority of the dogs in that video are enjoying the company of other dogs, whether you want to classify it or playing or something else. Certainly, if you want to get down to semantics I'm happy to alter the phrase 'play' to 'interact', but I stand by the word 'harmony', as there are clearly no brawls going on and this was my initial point. I'm really not quite sure why you're so intent on tearing this post to pieces? I thought it was a nice positive post with a great message in light of the recent BSL hysteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I like the video and I like what it shows - multiple breeds all with good supervision interacting nicely! I've seen some very harmonious groups of dogs (even if dog parks, shock horror) and I've seen some not so nice ones. One of my dogs rarely 'plays' as such but he still likes meeting and hanging out with other dogs. He doesn't have to be physically rolling around on the ground with another dog for me to call it playing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) I'm not going to go back through the video to point out which breeds are interacting with which at which time and in which manner because I honestly can't be bothered. It seems that the majority of the dogs in that video are enjoying the company of other dogs, whether you want to classify it or playing or something else. Certainly, if you want to get down to semantics I'm happy to alter the phrase 'play' to 'interact', but I stand by the word 'harmony', as there are clearly no brawls going on and this was my initial point. I'm really not quite sure why you're so intent on tearing this post to pieces? I thought it was a nice positive post with a great message in light of the recent BSL hysteria. I'm not "tearing the post to pieces". I'm disagreeing what you say the video represents. It is not an "allbreeds play session". Dogs greeting, sniffing and moving away from one another are NOT 'playing'. What you're watching is controlled socialisation in which a few offlead dogs play. Given the situation, I'd be very surprised to see a brawl. What you have to ask yourself of course is why so many dogs are on lead. The answer would appear to be to control the number of offlead dogs and restrict any of those whose reactions may not be known. Very sensible socialisation under the supervision of a trainer. It should be shown to all baby puppy owners as an example of what 'controlled socialisation' looks like. As I said, you won't see it done that way down the dog park. You may also care to note that BSL hysteria relates to how dogs interact with humans. I can tell you for a fact that there are entire breeds that I am wary of with regard to their interactions with other dogs because some breeds have been selectively bred for dog to dog aggression. The more the differentiation is made between dog to to dog aggression and dog to human aggression is made the better IMO. Whether or not a dog plays nicely with other dogs is no indicator of how it will be with people. Edited October 4, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdogs Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 I'm not going to go back through the video to point out which breeds are interacting with which at which time and in which manner because I honestly can't be bothered. It seems that the majority of the dogs in that video are enjoying the company of other dogs, whether you want to classify it or playing or something else. Certainly, if you want to get down to semantics I'm happy to alter the phrase 'play' to 'interact', but I stand by the word 'harmony', as there are clearly no brawls going on and this was my initial point. I'm really not quite sure why you're so intent on tearing this post to pieces? I thought it was a nice positive post with a great message in light of the recent BSL hysteria. I'm not "tearing the post to pieces". I'm disagreeing what you say the video represents. It is not an "allbreeds play session". Dogs greeting, sniffing and moving away from one another are NOT 'playing'. What you're watching is controlled socialisation in which a few offlead dogs play. Given the situation, I'd be very surprised to see a brawl. What you have to ask yourself of course is why so many dogs are on lead. The answer would appear to be to control the number of offlead dogs and restrict any of those whose reactions may not be known. Very sensible socialisation under the supervision of a trainer. It should be shown to all baby puppy owners as an example of what 'controlled socialisation' looks like. As I said, you won't see it done that way down the dog park. I'm sensing some kind of anti-dog park agenda here. Ok, that's fine. Perhaps you can make a post about that if you want to discuss the drawbacks dog parks. We're on two different pages. The video's message is pretty simple: with the correct supervision, socialisation and knowledge, peaceful 'interaction', 'socialisation', 'play' or any other form of close-up or distant communication between dogs, regardless of of breed, can be achieved. No one is sugesting you throw your Toy Poodle into the mouth of the next random Great Dane that you see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdogs Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 I like the video and I like what it shows - multiple breeds all with good supervision interacting nicely! I've seen some very harmonious groups of dogs (even if dog parks, shock horror) and I've seen some not so nice ones. One of my dogs rarely 'plays' as such but he still likes meeting and hanging out with other dogs. He doesn't have to be physically rolling around on the ground with another dog for me to call it playing I've seen dogs derive great joy simply from standing, staring and wagging their tails furiously at the other dog without doing much (dogs that know each other well and have never scrapped, i.e, this is not mistaken prey drive). I would classify this as play. But I guess it doesn't matter too much about wording, as long as people enjoy the video and get the message! Thanks for the positive comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) I'm sensing some kind of anti-dog park agenda here. Ok, that's fine. Perhaps you can make a post about that if you want to discuss the drawbacks dog parks. We're on two different pages. The video's message is pretty simple: with the correct supervision, socialisation and knowledge, peaceful 'interaction', 'socialisation', 'play' or any other form of close-up or distant communication between dogs, regardless of of breed, can be achieved. No one is sugesting you throw your Toy Poodle into the mouth of the next random Great Dane that you see. I'm pro dog parks. I'm just anti the kind of person who thinks that their dog should be able to do anything it likes in them and bugger everyone else because "the dogs will sort it out". I will also tell you that management and control will not make some dogs suitable for the kind of activity you see in that video. No amount of socialisation will override the behaviour hard wired into some dogs. And some breeds will be over represented in the "this is not for my dog" category. Great Danes are not one of the breeds I worry about by the way. Maybe we differ on what you mean by play. Wagging your tail ain't playing where I come from. Most canine play behaviour mimics hunting or fighting activity. It's practice for it. There's at least one dog in that video not enjoying the situation.. can you spot it? Edited October 4, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 We had a nice turnout at our park this morning: baby lab, GSD, 2 kelpies (of course ;)) 2 irish setters, teenage newfie, standard poodle and a golden all happily doing a lap around the park together and chasing two balls. There were some more labs and a boxer on the other side of the park that we didn't catch up with but have interacted with happily in the past (the st. poodle was a temporary visitor from that group who wanted to see if our crew was having more fun). The newfie also went off to say a gentle hello to a dog so tiny that I couldn't even see what breed it was Finding a GOOD dog park is great for the soul I think, I love starting the day surrounded by happy dogs and friendly owners :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdogs Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 I'm sensing some kind of anti-dog park agenda here. Ok, that's fine. Perhaps you can make a post about that if you want to discuss the drawbacks dog parks. We're on two different pages. The video's message is pretty simple: with the correct supervision, socialisation and knowledge, peaceful 'interaction', 'socialisation', 'play' or any other form of close-up or distant communication between dogs, regardless of of breed, can be achieved. No one is sugesting you throw your Toy Poodle into the mouth of the next random Great Dane that you see. I'm pro dog parks. I'm just anti the kind of person who thinks that their dog should be able to do anything it likes in them and bugger everyone else because "the dogs will sort it out". I will also tell you that management and control will not make some dogs suitable for the kind of activity you see in that video. No amount of socialisation will override the behaviour hard wired into some dogs. And some breeds will be over represented in the "this is not for my dog" category. Great Danes are not one of the breeds I worry about by the way. Maybe we differ on what you mean by play. Wagging your tail ain't playing where I come from. Most canine play behaviour mimics hunting or fighting activity. It's practice for it. There's at least one dog in that video not enjoying the situation.. can you spot it? With regards to your initial remark, I'm not sure where I suggested that was the case. Whether they're playing or not wasn't really the point of the video. You seem to have collected one word and ran with it. Though, there's plenty of actual 'play' happening in that video. Particularly between the Amstaff and the Neo, which is nice to see. I also don't remember stating that all breeds have the same play-drives or thresholds, just that it 'can' (not always) be achieved. I.e, for BSL proponents, the message here would be 'not all mastiffs and amstaffs are killing machines'. If you're referring to the Rottweiler puppy not enjoying him/herself, well, it's natural for some puppies to be unsure, but certainly socialisation is a great way to remedy that. Whether or not you think that the owners of the Rottweiler should have stepped in is also not really relevant in the grand scheme of the message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdogs Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 We had a nice turnout at our park this morning: baby lab, GSD, 2 kelpies (of course ;)) 2 irish setters, teenage newfie, standard poodle and a golden all happily doing a lap around the park together and chasing two balls. There were some more labs and a boxer on the other side of the park that we didn't catch up with but have interacted with happily in the past (the st. poodle was a temporary visitor from that group who wanted to see if our crew was having more fun). The newfie also went off to say a gentle hello to a dog so tiny that I couldn't even see what breed it was Finding a GOOD dog park is great for the soul I think, I love starting the day surrounded by happy dogs and friendly owners :D :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) Blackdogs: Whether they're playing or not wasn't really the point of the video. You seem to have collected one word and ran with it. Though, there's plenty of actual 'play' happening in that video. Particularly between the Amstaff and the Neo, which is nice to see. Reread the title of your thread and you might be able to see why I focussed on whether or not the video showed "play". It seemed to be the point you were focussed on making. I agree that there is play. However there is not play between breeds of disparate size or between a wide range of dogs. Furthermore, Im not sure how this video contributes to any BSL issue. I've had my fair share of close encounters of the worst kind with dogs of fighting ancestry who've been interested in doing damage to my dogs. The presence of one of those breeds would stop me in my tracks if i didn't know the dog. That hasn't led me to conclude they should be wiped from the face of the earth and frankly when I don't have my dogs with me, they are usually dogs I'm pleased to see. As I said, this is an excellent example of controlled socialisation. I'd love to see it pinned in the puppy thread. Edited October 4, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillowGirl Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 How cute was the massive Neo greeting the baby bulldog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdogs Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 Blackdogs: Whether they're playing or not wasn't really the point of the video. You seem to have collected one word and ran with it. Though, there's plenty of actual 'play' happening in that video. Particularly between the Amstaff and the Neo, which is nice to see. Reread the title of your thread and you might be able to see why I focussed on whether or not the video showed "play". It seemed to be the point you were focussed on making. I agree that there is play. However there is not play between breeds of disparate size or between a wide range of dogs. Furthermore, Im not sure how this video contributes to any BSL issue. I've had my fair share of close encounters of the worst kind with dogs of fighting ancestry who've been interested in doing damage to my dogs. The presence of one of those breeds would stop me in my tracks if i didn't know the dog. That hasn't led me to conclude they should be wiped from the face of the earth and frankly when I don't have my dogs with me, they are usually dogs I'm pleased to see. As I said, this is an excellent example of controlled socialisation. I'd love to see it pinned in the puppy thread. Ok. If you can't see it after I have explained it, there's just nowhere to go from here. I'm going to let this conversation die a quick death now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 [Ok. If you can't see it after I have explained it, there's just nowhere to go from here. I'm going to let this conversation die a quick death now. I don't think you have explained how controlled socialisation of dogs with other dogs relates to BSL, which has nothing to do with dog to dog behaviour. But you're under no obligation to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 It certainly doesn't resemble what I see happening at local dog parks where its more of a free for all. What, the dog parks you don't go to? Did you all see the little dog 'chase' the bigger pup under a chair with friendly tail wags? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now