Puppy Limping

[rome]

Hi every one,

my name is Rome and I own a seven and a half month old Cane Corso. I have joined this site in the hope to get some help or insight into an issue I have been having with my puppy. The issue I have been having with him is lameness and limping. The first time I noticed it was around three and a half months of age where he started limping after playing in the back yard. I took him to the vet and the vet thought he may have just sprained something and told me to keep an eye on him, and if no improvement bring him back. He seemed to improve quite quickly (four to five days) so I didn't think much of it. The same thing accured again about two months later, where he would pull up lame then start limping after having a run in the back yard. So I took him back to the vet. Vet then thought perhaps it was a deficiency in his diet which was causing the problem. At the time he was eating Pro Plan (Breeders bag), he was occasionally getting a chicken carcass or some vegetables with his meals as well. The vet asked me to get rid of all the extras such as the chicken carcasses, vegetables e.c.t and just feed him a dry food formulated for large breed puppies. So under the recommendation of the vet I did that and have since tried him on Royal Canin Giant Puppy formula and Canidae Grain Free All Life Stages formula. He is now around seven and a half months of age, and just the other day the same thing happened again. So I took him back to the vet. The pain he has been getting seems to be coming from his left shoulder. The vet said it looks like OCD and has refered me to a specialist. I have been told the treatments for this are either surgical or some dogs have apparently had some success with this issue on Cartrophen injections. I was hoping to get some insight from any one on this issue. Has any one ever experienced this with there dog before? Any advice on what may be the best form of treatment? Also I have now switched from dry food to a raw diet, any comment on wether or not this may help?

[stonecutter]

rome - are you in Sydney? I would suggest seeing a dog chiro or muscle specialist. If you are in Sydney I can recommend Peter Schofield (Berkshire Park, towards Windsor/Richmond) or others also recommend Gary (I can't remember his surname) near Austral.

[Sandra777]

I would definitely get an appointment with a Chiro. Not necessarily instead of a specialist but certainly give it a go.

What does the breeder say?

[Bullbreedlover]

Hi every one,

my name is Rome and I own a seven and a half month old Cane Corso. I have joined this site in the hope to get some help or insight into an issue I have been having with my puppy. The issue I have been having with him is lameness and limping. The first time I noticed it was around three and a half months of age where he started limping after playing in the back yard. I took him to the vet and the vet thought he may have just sprained something and told me to keep an eye on him, and if no improvement bring him back. He seemed to improve quite quickly (four to five days) so I didn't think much of it. The same thing accured again about two months later, where he would pull up lame then start limping after having a run in the back yard. So I took him back to the vet. Vet then thought perhaps it was a deficiency in his diet which was causing the problem. At the time he was eating Pro Plan (Breeders bag), he was occasionally getting a chicken carcass or some vegetables with his meals as well. The vet asked me to get rid of all the extras such as the chicken carcasses, vegetables e.c.t and just feed him a dry food formulated for large breed puppies. So under the recommendation of the vet I did that and have since tried him on Royal Canin Giant Puppy formula and Canidae Grain Free All Life Stages formula. He is now around seven and a half months of age, and just the other day the same thing happened again. So I took him back to the vet. The pain he has been getting seems to be coming from his left shoulder. The vet said it looks like OCD and has refered me to a specialist. I have been told the treatments for this are either surgical or some dogs have apparently had some success with this issue on Cartrophen injections. I was hoping to get some insight from any one on this issue. Has any one ever experienced this with there dog before? Any advice on what may be the best form of treatment? Also I have now switched from dry food to a raw diet, any comment on wether or not this may help?

Why did you switch foods? A raw food diet for a growing large breed is not adequate in essential vitamins and minerals nor protein content.

When do you see the specialist with your dog?

I would also recommend a glucosamine preparation. Human tablets are fine but do get the 1500mg tablets. Once a day. That doseage is recommended for large Mastiff breeds suffering from joint problems. It is not going to solve any big issues especially if surgery is required but is will help with his joints.

There are a few things that could be happening with your boy. Correct diagnosis and treatment is essential. If you are not happy with the diagnosis do seek a second opinion if necessary.

I do know of a approx nine month old Dogue with similar issues. He is on Glucosimine and this is helping. Bear in mind that you wont see a difference over night. It may take quite a few weeks.

And once again I cant emphasis enough that the dog should be on a quality large breed kibble. Proplan I do recommend.Stop changing your dogs diet. You can feed raw as well but the main food should be kibble.

And my recommendation is not to go to a chiro at this stage. If the dog has a serious growing joint issue then a chiro is not going to fix it.

And limited exercise. No running, no jumping. Rest but with minimal exercise so the joints do not stiffen.

Mastiff breeds do not require alot of exercise until they are 12 months old. No mad rush zoomies. Controlled exercise after that.

Have you spoken to your breeder about his problem?

Edited October 3, 2011 by Bullbreedlover

[aussielover]

I think you need radiographs at a minimum, at least to rule out certain problems. Preferably have them taken and read by a specialist.

[Mason_Gibbs]

I would see the chiro, my pup limped at 8 weeks after a bad fall - it was intermittant, one acupuncture session and never limped again..

[rome]

I do live in Sydney. I have switched foods so many times because each time his lameness reoccurs people have told me its his diet and have told me the dry food I'm feeding him is no good hence why I have chopped and changed between so many different brands in the hope to find something that is suitable for him. To be honest it is all very confusing as far as the food is going, one person says one brand is good another says it isn't. One person says dry food is good another say isn't. I'm a little confused.

As far as exercise is going apart from playing with him in the back yard he doesn't really do much, and at this stage i haven't been letting him run around at all. I have just been walking him on a leash around my yard so he can do his business. I am trying to book an appointment to see the specialist this week so hopefully he can give me a more accurate diagnosis. I have mentioned it to my breeder, but I am going to see him tomorrow to have a better chat. I really appreciate everyones input and advice thank you! Ill keep you all posted.

[GoldenWei]

If you can, go see Karen Hedberg in North Richmond for a second opinion... it could be panosteosis (intermittent lameness / growing pains), or it could be OCD... or it could be niether. I think x-rays would be required if it has been on and off for so long. Diet can play a part in it, if he has grown too quickly it can cause issues. I don't feed puppy food anymore, but a good quality adult dry food with reasonably low protein levels - 22%-24%.

[Rebanne]

if it is OCD, the earlier it is operated on the better the success rate. But you need xrays to diagnose it properly. If this was my dog I would get xrays first. If nothing structural showed up I would then go a chiro. I would feed a low protein food as well, an adult one.

[Nekhbet]

you need x-rays but see a good dog chiro first.

I had the same problem with my dogue at 9 months, he couldnt walk more then 5 minutes before being totally lame. Vet said he needed a shoulder reconstruction, chiro found out he had a bad back and was throwing all the weight foreward. Dont go in for surgery until you have had an experienced muscle person give him a good look over.

[Pockets]

It could be Pano, a vet can determine this by doing an x ray of the bones and if there is a fence shadowing it is diagnosed as Pano, it equates to growth pains and can show up on and off as the pup grows, sometimes not completely resolving until adult hood of the dog.

Pano can sometimes switch from limb to limb or can sometimes be on and off in the same limb..

It's basically an Inflamation of the bones as the puppy grows, especially larger breeds that tend to grow fast.

Uneducated vets will sometimes point to Hip or elbow dyslasia or something as drastic.

Rob Zammit is a great vet in Sydney, otherwise Karen Hedberg.

[Pockets]

Also to add, Pano presents with intimitent limping, quite obvious when the dog walks/runs and more noticeable after exercise.

If it started when the pup was young, stopped and the re-presented again later, that may coincide with growth periods

I would speak to a vet that knows what Pano is get an x ray for diagnoses.

If you google Pano in dogs you will find a heap of information, unfortunately a lot of people are not aware of this condition, even vets...

[rotts4ever]

It could be Pano, a vet can determine this by doing an x ray of the bones and if there is a fence shadowing it is diagnosed as Pano, it equates to growth pains and can show up on and off as the pup grows, sometimes not completely resolving until adult hood of the dog.

Pano can sometimes switch from limb to limb or can sometimes be on and off in the same limb..

It's basically an Inflamation of the bones as the puppy grows, especially larger breeds that tend to grow fast.

Uneducated vets will sometimes point to Hip or elbow dyslasia or something as drastic.

Rob Zammit is a great vet in Sydney, otherwise Karen Hedberg.

When I first read this post I also thought Pano which we've seen bit in large fast growing pups.

Blair Kurtz and Matt at Quakers Hill vet are also very good. Many Greyhound people use them for injuries as they do the ciro/muscle work as well as being vets, so you have the benefit of being able to get the dog checked for anything that is out or injured as well as being able to get xrays, meds etc at the one place if needed. They are also very good with large breeds, I've been very happy with them treating my rottweilers after they were recommended to me from a bull mastiff breeder. I'm not sure about the other vets that work there but can recommend Blair and Matt and their prices have been very reasonable compared to other vets as well.

Cheers Lee

[rome]

Thanks every one for the helpful advice. Last weekend I took my dog to the vet for x-rays. After both the vet and a specialist whom I was refered to looked at the results I was told my dog has Bi-Lateral Un-united Anconeal Process. The specialist said this is a completely genetic issue and that other variables such as food and exercise could not have caused this to happen. As a result I have been left with the options to either operate on both of the elbows, or as the dogs condition worsens to consider putting him down. The specialist says there is not a very good chance that surgery will even do anything for him, and in fact in most cases he has seen like this it does very little at all.

[Pockets]

Do u have photos of thex rays?

[rotts4ever]

The specialist said this is a completely genetic issue and that other variables such as food and exercise could not have caused this to happen.

Hi Rome

below is something I had on file, I think it was a US site but you might like to read anyway. Just a personal opinion but I believe along with genetics, diet, exercise, damage to growth plates etc can sometimes also play a role on these sorts of issues. I'm not saying this is the case with your poor boy so please don't take it that way but I don't think a vet can rule out these factors by saying it purely genetic. In your case it might be but I think it's a pretty big statement to say the other mentioned factors could not contribute to such problems. I don't think it is always as simple as that.

I'm sorry for this very worring time for you

Lee

Ununited anconeal process (UAP), elbow dysplasia Ununited anconeal process (UAP), elbow dysplasia, bone chip or bone spur

Affected Animals-Dogs

Overview

While a normal dog is growing, a piece of the bone in its elbow called the anconeal process fuses with the ulna in the front leg. Dogs that develop an ununited anconeal process fail to form this union. The result of the lack of fusion is instability and irritation in the joint, which leads to arthritis and mild to severe lameness in the affected front limb or limbs. Ununited anconeal process is one of three diseases which are grouped under the heading elbow dysplasia; the other two are osteochondrosis of the elbow, and fragmented medial coronoid process.

A disease of large and giant breed dogs, ununited anconeal process most often affects the German shepherd. The problem also is seen in the Saint Bernard, Irish wolfhound, bassett hound, Newfoundland, Great Pyrenees, Labrador retriever, Great Dane, and others.

Clinical Signs

Lameness that worsens with exercise; abduction of the elbow; external rotation of the foot; effusion; thickening; crepitus; and pain in the affected elbow.

Symptoms

Lameness of one or both forelimbs; thickened elbows.

Description

Ununited anconeal process is a developmental disease of large and giant breeds that affects the elbow joint. In UAP, the bone in the elbow, called the anconeal process, fails to fuse with the ulna. This results in arthritis and lameness if untreated. The German shepherd is by far the most commonly affected breed; however, the disease can be seen in any dog, especially other large and giant breeds.

In a normal dog, the anconeal process develops and then fuses to the ulna by the time the animal is 20 weeks of age. If it fails to do so, chronic instability and irritation can result, which leads to progressive arthritis. Typically, dogs will show a forelimb lameness that improves with rest but worsens with exercise. In 20 to 35 percent of the cases, the disease is bilateral, meaning that it affects both legs, but often, one side will be affected more severely than the other. Dogs are typically presented at six to 12 months of age to a veterinarian because of front leg lameness. Other dogs will not be taken for treatment until they are several years of age, when considerable arthritis is already present.

Diagnosis

The veterinarian may presume a diagnosis of ununited anconeal process if the dog shows signs of disease and is a German shepherd or other commonly affected large breed. A definitive diagnosis requires x-rays taken after five months of age.

Prognosis

The prognosis is good for dogs that do not have significant arthritis in their elbows. The prognosis becomes more guarded in cases of long-standing disease, in which the arthritis is severe. With surgical excision of the ununited anconeal process, some arthritis is still likely to occur, but the animals generally do significantly better than if they had not had surgery. With the reattachment techniques, the prognosis can be quite good if the fusion is successful. However, these techniques are likely to fail in severely arthritic joints.

Transmission/Cause

A genetic cause is thought to play a major role, as the disease is highly prevalent in some lines of German shepherds. Underlying elbow incongruity, or elbow dysplasia, also may be an important factor. Damage to the distal growth plate of the ulna may result in a shortened ulna, putting excessive force on the anconeal process and preventing it from fusing to the ulna. Other factors include problems with the dog's nutrition, such as obesity or high calorie diets that are intended to promote rapid growth, hormonal effects, and chronic trauma.

Treatment

The treatment for ununited anconeal process is surgical, unless severe arthritis has developed. Several options exist, but surgical excision is the most widely accepted method. In this procedure, the loose anconeal process is removed to prevent further irritation to the joint. In severely arthritic elbows, the surgery may not result in improvement.

Another method that has been advocated is reattachment of the anconeal process with bone screws. The reported success rate varies, and this type of surgery should be performed only if the disease is recognized very early in its progression.

A recently reported treatment in German shepherds called an ulnar osteotomy involves making a bone cut in the ulna to reduce the force on the anconeal process. In the study, a significant number of dogs that underwent this procedure developed a normal fusion of the anconeal process to the ulna. An ulnar osteotomy is generally performed early in the disease, before severe arthritis or displacement of the bony process has occurred.

Medical management consists of maintaining a lean body weight, using non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, and participating in low impact physical therapy such as swimming.

[Nekhbet]

what does your breeder have to say about all of this? I would be getting second and third opinions on all of this before jumping in or admitting defeat from the specialist.

Another person to try and contact could be Dr Bruce Syme in Victoria I heard from a couple of people with horses he has done some good work in regards to joints and bones. It cannot hurt to ask from someone who has his feet both in conventional medicine and alternative.

[Mason_Gibbs]

Yup I would get a second opinion for sure

[Pockets]

Second opinion voted for here

[persephone]

yep - what one specialist thinks/interprets may be very different to another! Don't admit defeat, or make decisions just yet .