Does Bsl Reduce Attack Rates?

[geo]

That's why I asked the question Geo because from what I have seen, there must be a reason when people need aggression from a dog they use particular breeds and types, otherwise if they all had equal potential to do the work effectively, wouldn't they just use any dog?

Some chose their dogs on stereotypes, masculine dogs do attract people who may want to appear tough, and many of these dogs are treated just fine despite their owners appearance.

The people who want dogs for aggression don't exactly research what it is they need they just chose on fashion and stereotypes and the media does a great job in helping them decide along with all the bans in place.. ie "i am tough and the law can go jump, i even own an illegal dog!" hell these idiots will get any dog that resembles a pitbull and call it one and they're all now buying amstaffs, or larger cross breeds as the true APBT is not a big enough dog for them.

No one said they all have the potential to work equally as this is completely different, however any dog of similar size has the capability to cause just as severe an injury as an APBT.

I hope that helps.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Zara

Why don't you copy the article already published in the Australian.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/dog-fight-brews-over-tough-laws/story-e6frg6z6-1226131681378

Dog attack is not the main cause of injury or death in children. You'd be better off targetting swimming pools or cars.

And BSL has not worked in the UK

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/may/13/ukcrime.prisonsandprobation

under the current victorian law I cannot bring my dog from SA for training seminars, because she has a short coat and musclely build and is sometimes mistaken for a "staffy cross". She is registered in SA, but not Victoria and I would have difficulty registering her in Victoria because she is a cross breed, and I don't live in Victoria.

The way the legislation is currently worded - I have to prove she's an Amstaff with ANKC pedigree papers, or get a note from a vet to say she is "a particular breed". Do I make up a cute name for a three way crossbreed? And I can't even be sure what breed she is, and neither can the AWL.

What I do know is she's great with kids. She gets mobbed when I walk on the council land next to our nearest primary school. She's also very friendly with all other dogs and will roll over by way of greeting. She's hardly a child killer. But because she's no particular breed, I risk her being confiscated and pts if I go to Victoria with her. Theoretically a grumpy ranger could lock up the PM's new dog should it ever set foot in Victoria and there would be no way to get the dog back because it is not an Amstaff, and it is not a particular breed for a vet to certify that it is.

Incredibly shoddy legislation. We learned that it's not the way we should do things with humans so why is it ok to do it with dogs.

[hortfurball]

Nearly every viscious unprovoked attack causing serious injury and recently death has featured a Pitbull style of dog. Pitbull style I don't mean specifically a pure bred Pitbull but a dog of Pitbull/Mastiff type appearance, definitely not the type of dog that Border Collies, Standard Poodles or GSDs could be mistaken for, they are on the Bull breed platform...

I would like to know where you have found this information. Please can you back up your assertion with actual statistics (and please don't quote from the latest 'news' which is ONLY listing 'pit bull-type' dog attacks for the last five years and failing to even mention any others in some of the most biased journalism I've seen in recent years)

Is it correct for me to say it's a fact that if the recent surge of attacks committed by Pitbull type dogs had fallen victim to a BSL, that those dogs including the culprit who took the little girl's life couldn't have done the deed if they didn't exist?

Is it correct for me to say it's a fact that if humans did not exist, that those dogs including the culprit who took the little girl's life couldn't have done the deed if they (humans) didn't exist?

So does this mean that the real answer to dog attacks is to get rid of humans? Using your logic it would have a 100% success rate.

Is it also a fact if the owners of these offending dogs had dogs of a different breed and type, that it's impossible to prove an attack would have still occurred with the same outcome?

Is it also a fact that if the owners of this dog had a DIFFERENT individual dog of the SAME breed and type, that it's impossible to prove that an attack would still have occurred with the same outcome?

Your questions are worded in such a way as to make certain of an affirmative answer, but they prove nothing. With a couple of small changes, your questions can be completely turned around because your arguments are not based on fact but on word games.

People keep saying how you can make any dog aggressive, in certain circumstances you can, but the type of active preditory aggression that the dog killing the little girl displayed, you can't make the average dog do that, perhaps a high drive working dog trained extensively and set upon a child by command

I'm surprised the owners of the high drive extensively trained working dogs haven't popped in to put you straight on this one. They are some of the LEAST likely to savagely maul a child to death on command or otherwise. I think you need to do a little research on what their training involves.

The type of predatory aggression that the dog you refer to displayed has been shown by individual dogs from a broad cross section of the dog world, from huskies to retrievers to dobermanns to bullmastiffs to ACDs to various completely random crossbreeds, some of which look like bull breeds and some of which don't. Pitbulls and bull breeds don't have the monopoly on aggression, they are, as many others have said, just unfortunate enough to appeal to the sort of lowlifes who ruin a dog. I say bring on legislation to prosecute owners of dogs who attack for manslaughter. If you had to go to jail for your dog's crimes, wouldn't you think twice about how you trained it?

Here are some examples of the other side of pitbulls:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1383608/Pit-bull-Diamond-saved-girl-burning-house-wins-National-Hero-Dog-Award.html

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/articles/norton.html

http://saveabull.com/2008/pitbull-heroes/

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/articles/dixie.html

http://saveabull.com/2010/pitbull-chihuahua-love/

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/pospress.php

http://saveabull.com/2011/pitbull-attacks-baby-kitten/ Don't be put off by the title, this dog has the patience of a saint! (and is incredibly good looking to boot!)

WARNING! Graphic photo - Chief gave his life saving his family from a cobra http://insolublevitality.com/735-2/

Plenty more where they came from, just google 'hero pitbull'.

I don't agree with seizing good innocent dogs on the way they look, that's wrong, but it doesn't hurt to check them out and see how their behaviour and controllability looks? If they find a Pitty type dog that acts a bit nasty, make the owner bring the dog to the council offices for a traffic test, make them walk up the footpath, around the corner past some people etc. If the lunging at the end of the leash wanting to kill everyone and the owner has no leash control would be a good candidate for seizure. If the dog is calm and well controlled it's off the hook, something like that?

Whilst this is good in theory, what if the dog is nervous in strange surroundings and looks fearful, and this is taken as aggression by a council member untrained in interpretation of dog body language? So many things could go wrong with this scenario.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

And if we're talking about saving children's lives - banning quad bikes would save more.

I heard on the radio that there have been 17 deaths by quadbike this year alone. And about 4 of those were children under the age of 16 including one 4yo.

http://theconversation.edu.au/its-time-for-quad-bike-manufacturers-to-rollover-on-safety-3421

[Horse2008]

You've all missed the point of what do the government/councils plan to do about the dogs that BSL has made their owners hide/lie about their parentage?

It'll only end up making the dogs more valuable to the meat heads who bought them to appear tough, and as there's nothing to regulate anything that's already illegal, I fully expect the breed to become as dangerous as the govt./councils say they already are, then what do we do? We'll have a race of unsocialised and very unstable, very aggressive dogs, and WHO will have created the mess?

PS. Let's all ban thunderstorms, more people die because of lightening strikes then are killed by dogs!

Edited October 4, 2011 by Horse2008

[Keira&Phoenix]

You've all missed the point of what do the government/councils plan to do about the dogs that BSL has made their owners hide/lie about their parentage?

It'll only end up making the dogs more valuable to the meat heads who bought them to appear tough, and as there's nothing to regulate anything that's already illegal, I fully expect the breed to become as dangerous as the govt./councils say they already are, then what do we do? We'll have a race of unsocialised and very unstable, very aggressive dogs, and WHO will have created the mess?

PS. Let's all ban thunderstorms, more people die because of lightening strikes then are killed by dogs!

Actually you will find no one has missed that point.

[hortfurball]

You've all missed the point of what do the government/councils plan to do about the dogs that BSL has made their owners hide/lie about their parentage?

It'll only end up making the dogs more valuable to the meat heads who bought them to appear tough, and as there's nothing to regulate anything that's already illegal, I fully expect the breed to become as dangerous as the govt./councils say they already are, then what do we do? We'll have a race of unsocialised and very unstable, very aggressive dogs, and WHO will have created the mess?

You are years too late. That happened when BSL started.

[Jukama]

My main worry is who is doing the judging. Are they trained in animal behaviour? Do they know the inherent behaviour of specific breeds? I had a ranger tell me my Dane was a dangerous dog (she scared a clipped budgie to death that my next door neighbour had released in his back yard "for exercise" and had managed to flutter over to our yard) and because she stood up on a normal 5 foot fence we needed to get a 6 foot fence so she couldn't jump over it. Danes are not generally a jumping breed - they would rather go through it than over it.

The media dont help either - Channel Nine reporting on a dog attack repeatedly called the dog a Bull Terrier when it was a mixed-pitty type.

I'm scared guys .... does it all seem like Nazi Germany all over again to you?

[GeckoTree]

No BSL does not reduce dog attacks. Just look at the newspaper clippings, if anything attacks increase. So no BSL does not reduce attacks, and people who read newspaper clippings and soak in the media brainwashed tepid waters of luke warm lemonade they serve up should be up in arms that BSL does not work. Because BSL does not reduce dog attacks well at least according to newspaper article clippings.

Is there a drift catching a draft somewhere.

[Clubsprint]

Zara

under the current victorian law I cannot bring my dog from SA for training seminars, because she has a short coat and musclely build and is sometimes mistaken for a "staffy cross". She is registered in SA, but not Victoria and I would have difficulty registering her in Victoria because she is a cross breed, and I don't live in Victoria.

That's your own fault, you are a victim of your own choices, if you'd chosen one of the others of hundreds of breeds available to you, instead of a derivative of a "bull" breed you wouldn't have this restriction. Your situation is a result of your own choices, stop trying to blame some-one else

Edited October 10, 2011 by Clubsprint

[Cat]

Wow, that's pretty rude.

So we should not bother with all the poor crossbreeds sitting in pounds?

[Linda K]

View PostMrs Rusty Bucket, on 03 October 2011 - 10:20 PM, said:

Zara

under the current victorian law I cannot bring my dog from SA for training seminars, because she has a short coat and musclely build and is sometimes mistaken for a "staffy cross". She is registered in SA, but not Victoria and I would have difficulty registering her in Victoria because she is a cross breed, and I don't live in Victoria.

That's your own fault, you are a victim of your own choices, if you'd chosen one of the others of hundreds of breeds available to you, instead of a derivative of a "bull" breed you wouldn't have this restriction. Your situation is a result of your own choices, stop trying to blame some-one else

Oh yes, she was pyschic and just knew when she chose this dog that some bozos in Vic would gain office and make such stupid knee jerk laws like this.

[Clubsprint]

View PostMrs Rusty Bucket, on 03 October 2011 - 10:20 PM, said:

Zara

under the current victorian law I cannot bring my dog from SA for training seminars, because she has a short coat and musclely build and is sometimes mistaken for a "staffy cross". She is registered in SA, but not Victoria and I would have difficulty registering her in Victoria because she is a cross breed, and I don't live in Victoria.

That's your own fault, you are a victim of your own choices, if you'd chosen one of the others of hundreds of breeds available to you, instead of a derivative of a "bull" breed you wouldn't have this restriction. Your situation is a result of your own choices, stop trying to blame some-one else

Oh yes, she was pyschic and just knew when she chose this dog that some bozos in Vic would gain office and make such stupid knee jerk laws like this.

I can pick a dog breed that will not cause me any issue with any club or organization or I can pick a dog that gets excluded because of insurance issues, has been the target of BSL in the past, will always galvanize peoples opinion, that most of society view as a pariah. Pretty easy choice I reckon. Pick the dog that will cause (by it's reputation alone) the most hassle and then whinge about it. If your dog is registered and not going to cause a problem you have nothing to worry about.

[Cat]

You may want to read more threads before judging others and what you think their dogs may be...

You don't have to create trouble on every forum you visit.

[aussielover]

View PostMrs Rusty Bucket, on 03 October 2011 - 10:20 PM, said:

Zara

under the current victorian law I cannot bring my dog from SA for training seminars, because she has a short coat and musclely build and is sometimes mistaken for a "staffy cross". She is registered in SA, but not Victoria and I would have difficulty registering her in Victoria because she is a cross breed, and I don't live in Victoria.

That's your own fault, you are a victim of your own choices, if you'd chosen one of the others of hundreds of breeds available to you, instead of a derivative of a "bull" breed you wouldn't have this restriction. Your situation is a result of your own choices, stop trying to blame some-one else

Oh yes, she was pyschic and just knew when she chose this dog that some bozos in Vic would gain office and make such stupid knee jerk laws like this.

I can pick a dog breed that will not cause me any issue with any club or organization or I can pick a dog that gets excluded because of insurance issues, has been the target of BSL in the past, will always galvanize peoples opinion, that most of society view as a pariah. Pretty easy choice I reckon. Pick the dog that will cause (by it's reputation alone) the most hassle and then whinge about it. If your dog is registered and not going to cause a problem you have nothing to worry about.

What if you want to rescue a crossbreed???

I agree that it is not wise to pick a dog that is already restricted breed- but crossbred dogs weren't restricted at the time.

Would you say the same thing if suddenly GSDs or Labradors for example were to become restricted/banned (it has happened in other countries). To all GSD and lab owners- your fault for choosing thw wrong breed?

[Clubsprint]

Over the past couple of years, there has been some serious dog attacks involving Pitbull type dogs to the recent death of the poor little Melbourne girl which sparked community outcry to clamp down and potentially rid the community of these type of dogs?. We know that probably all of these serious attacks although reported in media hype as Pitbull culprits, were not genuine APBT's but cross breeds of various Bull/Mastiff styles etc of Pitbull type similarities appearance wise.

Although people get bitten by dogs on a regular basis from all breeds, types and sizes, a trend appeared to develop where the seriously savage attacks, maulings with severe injury and a death were caused primarily by these cross breed dogs of Pitbull style and similarity clearly more of these type of dogs involved in attacks than anything else.

These attacks for the most part were unprovoked active and predatory type aggression where they had chased people down, gone after and attacked other dogs where people were bitten trying to protect their own dog to the horrifying situation where the the dog chased some neighours kids into their home and killed the little girl in the lounge room.

People in community outcry protested that getting rid of these types of dogs will make the community a safer place and reduce the incidence of dog attacks and severe injury and quite frankly I agree on the basis if these dogs had fallen victim to a BSL and no longer existed, the specific incidents wouldn't have happened?

Ultimately if there were no dogs, dog attacks wouldn't occur at all and with that said, a BSL in the extreme would work. Some say that any form of BSL doesn't reduce attack rates, well we know a total BSL of no dogs will reduce attacks competely, so surely in that case a blend of BSL eliminating the types of dogs prone to active and predatory type aggression would have to reduce attack rates over no BSL at all, yes or no?

Zara, be prepared for all sorts of abuse if you come down on the side of BSL.

Pitbull advocates will accuse you of all sorts of things while they try really hard to quote you all sorts of figures to try and prove their case. They will make all sorts of rubbish claims whilst using other Pitbull Advocates to back up their myths. They encourage the all sorts of myths, falsifications and hysteria about BSL to scare owners of other breeds to back them up. They say "IT's Pitbull's now and once they're gone they'll pick on Roti's or Dobes or GSDs or etc." Of course this is unfounded. They'll accuse you of lying, or trolling and wont accept that you can be a dog lover and want to still want to eradicate these unpredictable liabilities.

The thing I find really interesting is that the Pitbull advocates completely ignore the death of Darla Napora,

they just stick their head in the sand and pretend it didn't happen.

She was pregnant and killed (that's two lives)by her own dog in her own house.

She was a member of Bay Area Dog Lovers Responsible About Pit Bulls [bAD RAP]

Her husband has "forgiven" the dog and will bury it's ashes with her.

Does this guy have a borderline personality disorder?

Does anyone else find this sick?

How do the Pitbull advocates explain this?

They had ths dog sinse it was a pup so bad treatment can be ruled out.

Is this just an inconenient truth to be ignored?

How much more proof is needed?

Apparently, Gunner the two year old male did the attacking and there was no evidence that the female dog, Tazi, took part in the attack.

I'm told this heroic breed frequently protects their master in such incidents.

What happened to Tazi, did she forget her role?

Let's hear from her husband.

Greg Napora says that he forgives Gunner for killing his wife and unborn child because it was “just a freak accident…They (their two pit bulls) are the most loving animals I have ever had in my life. Whatever happened right now was not the breed’s fault."

Are these the words of a deluded idiot or what?. Has this guy got any brains at all?

He's just lost his wife and unborn child and all he can talk about is the "love" of his dogs?

Loving like that is hard to come by.

What about the love of your wife? You aren't never going to get that back.

What abut the love to come from your son/daughter?

My dog loves me like a serial killer.

Yep, I'm convinced, great family dogs.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2027286/Darla-Napora-Pregnant-woman-dies-mauled-pet-dog-living-room.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/15/darla-napora-pit-bull-death-details_n_927770.html

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/animal-rights/husband-forgives-pit-bull-killing-pregnant-wife-darla-napora

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/peninsula/2011/08/sole-pit-bull-responsible-killing-pregnant-woman-experts-say

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2011/08/pit-bull-mauling-death-pregnant-woman-comes-shock-pacifica

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/08/darla_napora_pregnant_pit_bull.php

Be prepared for all this Zara. These are the sort of people who will chose the life of a killer dog over their wife.

These are the people that will come after you so make sure that's what you want.

[Cat]

]They say "IT's Pitbull's now and once they're gone they'll pick on Roti's or Dobes or GSDs or etc." Of course this is unfounded.

Its not unfounded - it has happened in other countries. I am pretty sure you have been pointed to documents that demonstrate this.

You'd get more respect and wouldn't be classed as a troll if you actually listened to what people were saying instead of spouting rubbish.

I'm not going to bother any further as you will only believe proBSL propaganda.

Edited October 10, 2011 by Cat

[Clubsprint]

View PostMrs Rusty Bucket, on 03 October 2011 - 10:20 PM, said:

Zara

under the current victorian law I cannot bring my dog from SA for training seminars, because she has a short coat and musclely build and is sometimes mistaken for a "staffy cross". She is registered in SA, but not Victoria and I would have difficulty registering her in Victoria because she is a cross breed, and I don't live in Victoria.

That's your own fault, you are a victim of your own choices, if you'd chosen one of the others of hundreds of breeds available to you, instead of a derivative of a "bull" breed you wouldn't have this restriction. Your situation is a result of your own choices, stop trying to blame some-one else

Oh yes, she was pyschic and just knew when she chose this dog that some bozos in Vic would gain office and make such stupid knee jerk laws like this.

I can pick a dog breed that will not cause me any issue with any club or organization or I can pick a dog that gets excluded because of insurance issues, has been the target of BSL in the past, will always galvanize peoples opinion, that most of society view as a pariah. Pretty easy choice I reckon. Pick the dog that will cause (by it's reputation alone) the most hassle and then whinge about it. If your dog is registered and not going to cause a problem you have nothing to worry about.

What if you want to rescue a crossbreed???

I agree that it is not wise to pick a dog that is already restricted breed- but crossbred dogs weren't restricted at the time.

Would you say the same thing if suddenly GSDs or Labradors for example were to become restricted/banned (it has happened in other countries). To all GSD and lab owners- your fault for choosing thw wrong breed?

The last two dog were pound rescues. One was a Ridgeback X Whippet and the other is a Kelpie X Jack Russel. No problem. It's not like the only X's are Pibull X's. I will say that last time I was at a shelter at least half the dogs seemed to have some sort of Staffy or Bully in them. GSD and Labs don't have a bad reputation and are used as forces and blind\care dogs so that would make that extremely unlikely. Agree?

[Clubsprint]

]They say "IT's Pitbull's now and once they're gone they'll pick on Roti's or Dobes or GSDs or etc." Of course this is unfounded.

Its not unfounded - it has happened in other countries. I am pretty sure you have been pointed to documents that demonstrate this.

Unfounded. Where is the proof? Links will be fine.

You'd get more respect and wouldn't be classed as a troll if you actually listened to what people were saying instead of spouting rubbish.

See, I'm a troll and get no respect because I disagree.

I'm not going to bother any further as you will only believe proBSL propaganda.

Show me some credible evidence not source from a Pitbull Advocate? Again links will be fine.

eg.

Toronto, Canada

Population 2,503,281

In a March 2008 Toronto Sun article, Toronto animal services reported that pit bull biting incidents

had dropped significantly since the adoption of the Dog Owners Liability Act 2005, an act that banned pit bulls:

"And reports of bites by pit bull type dogs have dropped dramatically.

In 2004, the animal services department received reports about 130 of the powerful animals biting humans and animals.

The numbers dropped by substantial increments in subsequent years: 71 in 2005; 53 in 2006; and 44 in 2007."

Zen Ruryk, "One endangered species," The Toronto Sun, March 2, 2008 (www.torontosun.com) (Archived by

You can check the offsite links from

http://blog.dogsbite.org/2010/06/cities-with-successful-pit-bull-laws.html or try

http://www.heartlandconnection.com/news/story.aspx?id=481775

http://www.heartlandconnection.com/news/story.aspx?id=481570

http://www.dogsbite.org/media/radio/93wibc-don-bauermeister-03052010.mp3

Just listen to the stream

The are plenty of examples of BSL working to reduce the incidents of dog bites but

the Pitbull Advocates will be very quiet about that as the BSL is generally focused on Pitbulls.

Again still no response about Darla Napora.

[Law]

These attacks for the most part were unprovoked active and predatory type aggression where they had chased people down, gone after and attacked other dogs where people were bitten trying to protect their own dog to the horrifying situation where the the dog chased some neighours kids into their home and killed the little girl in the lounge room.

This is what annoys me. No one ever asks the question 'What happened to cause this' dogs do not just attack people for no reason. There is always a reason, sometimes it is just not obvious to people who don't have much knowledge about dog behaviour and body language, and sometimes it's so bleeding obvious but no one is willing to take the blame on themselves