Why Wouldn't She Listen?

[moodychick]

Hi all. I am new here.

I want to ask a question if thats ok.

First i will explain our situation. Ok, married 2 children aged 11 and 3. One dog, foxy x maltese (Desexed) 10 years. 1 cat (RSPCA)(desexed) 6 years, and 3 rats.

My daughter grew up with our dog Scruffy. He is a lovely tempered dog, very calm, loves to go for walks etc etc, but because he is getting older he doesnt like to play with our son.

Our son is 3, and is undergoing assessment for Autism Spectrum. It is not extreme, he has eating issues, very hyperactive and a few other problems.

We have been looking into dogs for the past few months, and have finally come to a decision that we want either a Jack Russell, Mini Foxie, Tenterfield or Min Pin.

B ut have really narrowed it down to either mini foxie or Tenterfield. We know they can be a bit nippy etc, but we love these dogs!

Now today, i was given the number for the secretary (I think) of the mini foxie club. So i rang her to talk to her about pups, and as i was explaining our situation, she said flat out that a mini foxie is not suitable for our situation, and that we should look at a beagle, or a labrador. This is after we had explained to her that we want a small very active dog for our son, as he is very active, can play outside for hours without taking a breather.

My parents have had foxies for years, and i had one a few years ago, and to me they are the greatest kids dogs! Not big enough to ride on or jump on, but big enough to pick up, carry around, sit on your lap etc etc. I understand that some of them have issues with children, but to me that is something that is taught to them as they grow up.

Now basically any pup we get will be slowly introduced to our son, under strict supervision from either my husband or myself. It would be inside in a crate under the dining table with our other dog scruffy. We have our dining area fenced off from teh loungeroom, as our son really really likes to touch things and get int othings that he shouldnt.

We have also explained that when the dog is asleep in his bed, you DO NOT touch him. He has broken that rule a few times and got a little grown and not quite a nip, and has learned that lesson well.

But this woman wouldnt listen to me, or what i wanted. She kept telling me to go for a beagle or a Labradore, and basically the conversation ended with her saying there was no way she would sell me a pup if she had one

Now fair enough that is her decision, they are her babies, but I am just wondering why she actually wouldn't listen to what we wanted and why we wanted it? I tried to tell her that we dont want just A dog for our son, but we want THE RIGHT DOG for him! One that can grow up with him, and grow used to him slowly. One that can be his best friend and a part of our family. We want a special dog!

I dont want to get flamed for any of this, please, i am just trying to understand it a little from a breeders point of view? Because i dont really understand it from my point of view

However, i do have to say that i then rang Pam from Tentella about tenterfield terriers. Now Pam was absolutely wonderful! She listeneed to me, to what we wanted, and why we want it. She didnt say flat out no. Pam is going to ask around for us and see what sort of answers she can get with regards to our situation before making any decision. She is going to get opinions and find out if any other breeders have homed pups with special needs kids, and what the situation was etc.

So thankyou Pam! I am thrilled that you have taken the time to listen to what we want! And if after you ask around, the answer is that you can't help us then i will understand, because you have at least taken the time to hear what i am saying!

So in the end It has all turned out ok, but i am still frustrated by the lady from the Mini Foxie club!

Sorry for rambling so much, but just hoping someone may be able to give me a straight answer without flaming me or telling me im an idiot lol.

[aussielover]

Maybe the mini foxie lady hasn't ever homed dogs to special needs families.

Perhaps you could call some mini foxie breeders individually if you have your heart set on that breed.

Also might be a good idea not to make it sound like the dog is for your son- after all i assume it will be a family pet that you hope will form a special bond with your son.

I know that a lot of breeders get freaked out when parents say they are getting/want a dog for their kid.

I know you like your terrier breeds but have you thought about contacting assistance dogs or pets as therapy (guide dogs)?

They have some pretty bombproof dogs that I have seen successfully placed in situations like yours

And they provide ongoing support.

Edited October 1, 2011 by aussielover

[moodychick]

Hmm that could be it Aussielover. I didnt even think of that. Thats why im trying to work it out.

And yes, you do have a point there. The dog is for all of us, but yes we do hope that he or she will have a bond with our son. Basically we want the right dog for him, but for all of us, if that makes sense lol. As in we will all be responsible for looking after him, well mainly me lol....but we are hoping if we find the right dog, that it may help calm our son down as well, as he is a very active and tactile boy. Very touch feely with everything.

I have looked into assistance dogs, but i am assuming that the child needs to be diagnosed before anything can be done. I mean an autism assistance dog would be fantastic. They way they stop the children running off etc, my son could definitely use something like that! But then again, i also think that there are most likely alot more needy families out there then we are, and that the dogs should go to them first.

[rastus_froggy]

My first thought was like Aussielover said, maybe don't say that you want the dog for your son.

[persephone]

Hi ,and welcome .

A 3 yr old little boy ..and older dog , etc .. have you thought of obtaining a young adult dog ? One who has been fostered with young children/other pets , and one who is bomb proof? A puppy you buy may grow into a dog with a less than ideal temperament , whereas an adult - well, you can see exactly what they are like Your older dog may not like having a young active puppy underfoot, either.

very hyperactive and a few other problems.

they are the greatest kids dogs! big enough to pick up, carry around, sit on your lap etc etc. I understand that some of them have issues with children,

small very active dog for our son, as he is very active, can play outside for hours without taking a breather.

As someone who used to train/place dogs with families/special needs kids I must admit to never having used a very small dog in this situation , for various reasons.

I am glad you found someone who listened to you , and who will ask questions on your behalf .. The first lady is entitled to not sell a pup if she feels her dogs are not right for the situation ... as you said , they are her babies

Hopefully folks on here can be of help to you , and you will soon find teh right dog (well, BITCH, actually- just to help keep things harmonious)

[moodychick]

Thanks Rastus. I won't make that mistake again!

Persephone, we have actually thought about an older dog. We have been keeping an eye out at the Warrnambool and Portland RSPCA's just in case something comes up. This is not a decision we are making lightly, as i said we want the right dog, so an older dog is an option, but he or she does need to have alot of experience with very active sometimes loud kids lol. The reason we are looking at pups, is because we are hoping that they can grow up together, and adjust to eachothers needs.

Whereas sometimes an older dog may n ot be as ummmmm forgiving as a pup may be, if that makes sense?

And yes i know shes entitled not to sell a dog, thats fine, but i just couldnt understand why she wouldnt listen to what we are looking for and why. It was very frustrating, i got off the phone almost in tears I have no problems being told no we won't sell you a pup, i guess its just the way it was said and the fact she wasnt hearing what i was saying.

And yes I am hoping that people on here may be able to help :D I have been lurking and reading hte forums for a couple of months, and finally I thought it was time to get on here and get to know people.

We just want the right friend for our son, and new family member for all of us :D

Thanks all of you for helping me understand a little more. I was worried that i was going to get jumped on for saying the wrong thing lol, but you have all been very helpful and nice about it

We prefer little dogs, however if we are unable to find the right little dog, then we will keep our options open, but in the meantime I am grateful for the fact that Pam was willing to listen and understand our needs, and i am grateful for the fact that i have all of you here to help me if i need it!

[rastus_froggy]

Good luck with your search, it might be worth having a look in the rescue pages here and having a chat to some of the rescuers and foster carers in there.

[Missymoo]

Have you thought of a Cairn Terrier? They are FABULOUS with children, easy to look after etc..you are more then welcome to come and visit my crew and meet some

I have 3 kids, (9, 5 and almost 2) they were all raised with cairns, so I can say for sure they are kid friendly Please feel free to call me if you want to chat or ask anything

Edited October 1, 2011 by Missymoo

[Erny]

I have looked into assistance dogs, but i am assuming that the child needs to be diagnosed before anything can be done. I mean an autism assistance dog would be fantastic. They way they stop the children running off etc, my son could definitely use something like that! But then again, i also think that there are most likely alot more needy families out there then we are, and that the dogs should go to them first.

I would suggest you go ahead and apply. "Priority to the most needy" is not the way it works. Ideally, it would be, however practicality dictates the rules on this one. There might be a dog available, but not the right dog for a person with a greater impairment.

I can imagine how a breeder might be a bit nervous on the idea of homing one of their pups in your situation and I don't blame the breeder for this. S/he is quite likely wanting to make the responsible decision for both your son and their pup. I'm not so sure it is a great idea to hide the fact of your circumstance either. There are different lines in most if not all breeds of dogs. Some lines of the same breed might not be suitable for the needs/requirements of a family. Another line of the same breed might be. The main person who knows and understands this is the breeder and for the breeder to make an educated decision needs the relevant information.

But perhaps if, when speaking to any other breeder, you set out how you raised your current dog and how you manage your son with your current dog, this might have the breeder feeling calmer and more confident about a positive decision.

I can hear how much you love your Foxies and I agree it is ideal to take on a breed that the family is happy with, but I ask this genuinely as I've not lived with Foxies and in my line of work have only really been introduced to the more 'difficult' ones (not necessarily the fault of the dog, either) - do you think the nature of the Foxie breed is as tolerant as it needs to be, to be able to grow and develop through the critical puppy period and beyond, with the least liklihood of misfortune as a result of misunderstanding?

I don't know how anyone can answer your question directly and succinctly - we don't know how your son behaves; how you manage your time and household around his needs; how much spare time you would have to be teaching/training both son and puppy together, simultaneously, all at once and without being able to take eyes off one or the other (at least initially). Nor do I think that is our business - at least not for people like me who is not an expert in autism, in its varying levels. That's your judgement call, I think. I think the main thing is that you take a refresher on what this breed is like from the get go to mature adulthood.

You've acknowledged that they can be a bit nippy (most pups go through phases of being mouthy, but yes, some can be worse than others and some more persistent). Can you manage your son and the pup together always, until both your son matures to the point of being able to be expected to be responsible with the pup/dog and the pup/dog with your son?

These are the initial questions I think you should ask. But pardon me, perhaps you have. You sound as though you've put a lot of consideration into this, although there's one thing that I question mark ..... are you sure you've selected the Foxie breed with your son's priority in mind, or because it is the one you fancy?

To my knowledge, I think the Tenties have a steadier temperament than the Foxies, but I profess to not have had the privilege to work with enough of them to be able to make this a blanket statement.

This post is not meant to offend and I hope it is read in the light I intend it and that its purpose is to perhaps help give insight as to how someone on the 'other side' might read and respond to your plight.

[persephone]

rastus froggy has suggested a good thing peruse the rescue sections on here.Most rescue folk are VERY conscientious and dogs from a reputable rescue are thoroughly checked and fostered in situations which include all sorts of things

A dog straight from the RSPCA or somewhere is an unknown quantity - both health and temperament -wise ..and you may not get what you are seeking.

I personally think an older dog, well used to kids, is MUCH less likely to chase/nip/growl, than a youngster.

[Erny]

Have you thought of a Cairn Terrier? They are FABULOUS with children, easy to look after etc..you are more then welcome to come and visit my crew and meet some

Love the Cairns . Friend of mine has one and is so friendly, fun-loving and spritely. They're smart (remember that "smart" means they think a lot, which, if we're not up to it, they can run rings, lol). But yes - neat little dogs and I think if I ever got a small dog, a Cairn would be on the list.

[moodychick]

Good luck with your search, it might be worth having a look in the rescue pages here and having a chat to some of the rescuers and foster carers in there.

Thanks Rastus. I shall definitely do that!

[moodychick]

Have you thought of a Cairn Terrier? They are FABULOUS with children, easy to look after etc..you are more then welcome to come and visit my crew and meet some

I have 3 kids, (9, 5 and almost 2) they were all raised with cairns, so I can say for sure they are kid friendly Please feel free to call me if you want to chat or ask anything

Hi Missymoo. No i havent looked at Cairn Terriers, but will do that shortly, because we definitely want a kid friendly dog :D And thankyou!

[Missymoo]

Have you thought of a Cairn Terrier? They are FABULOUS with children, easy to look after etc..you are more then welcome to come and visit my crew and meet some

Love the Cairns . Friend of mine has one and is so friendly, fun-loving and spritely. They're smart (remember that "smart" means they think a lot, which, if we're not up to it, they can run rings, lol). But yes - neat little dogs and I think if I ever got a small dog, a Cairn would be on the list.

lol Yes Erny!! I liken some to cats, smart, cheeky buggers! lol!

Edited October 1, 2011 by Missymoo

[moodychick]

I have looked into assistance dogs, but i am assuming that the child needs to be diagnosed before anything can be done. I mean an autism assistance dog would be fantastic. They way they stop the children running off etc, my son could definitely use something like that! But then again, i also think that there are most likely alot more needy families out there then we are, and that the dogs should go to them first.

I would suggest you go ahead and apply. "Priority to the most needy" is not the way it works. Ideally, it would be, however practicality dictates the rules on this one. There might be a dog available, but not the right dog for a person with a greater impairment.

I can imagine how a breeder might be a bit nervous on the idea of homing one of their pups in your situation and I don't blame the breeder for this. S/he is quite likely wanting to make the responsible decision for both your son and their pup. I'm not so sure it is a great idea to hide the fact of your circumstance either. There are different lines in most if not all breeds of dogs. Some lines of the same breed might not be suitable for the needs/requirements of a family. Another line of the same breed might be. The main person who knows and understands this is the breeder and for the breeder to make an educated decision needs the relevant information.

But perhaps if, when speaking to any other breeder, you set out how you raised your current dog and how you manage your son with your current dog, this might have the breeder feeling calmer and more confident about a positive decision.

I can hear how much you love your Foxies and I agree it is ideal to take on a breed that the family is happy with, but I ask this genuinely as I've not lived with Foxies and in my line of work have only really been introduced to the more 'difficult' ones (not necessarily the fault of the dog, either) - do you think the nature of the Foxie breed is as tolerant as it needs to be, to be able to grow and develop through the critical puppy period and beyond, with the least liklihood of misfortune as a result of misunderstanding?

I don't know how anyone can answer your question directly and succinctly - we don't know how your son behaves; how you manage your time and household around his needs; how much spare time you would have to be teaching/training both son and puppy together, simultaneously, all at once and without being able to take eyes off one or the other (at least initially). Nor do I think that is our business - at least not for people like me who is not an expert in autism, in its varying levels. That's your judgement call, I think. I think the main thing is that you take a refresher on what this breed is like from the get go to mature adulthood.

You've acknowledged that they can be a bit nippy (most pups go through phases of being mouthy, but yes, some can be worse than others and some more persistent). Can you manage your son and the pup together always, until both your son matures to the point of being able to be expected to be responsible with the pup/dog and the pup/dog with your son?

These are the initial questions I think you should ask. But pardon me, perhaps you have. You sound as though you've put a lot of consideration into this, although there's one thing that I question mark ..... are you sure you've selected the Foxie breed with your son's priority in mind, or because it is the one you fancy?

To my knowledge, I think the Tenties have a steadier temperament than the Foxies, but I profess to not have had the privilege to work with enough of them to be able to make this a blanket statement.

This post is not meant to offend and I hope it is read in the light I intend it and that its purpose is to perhaps help give insight as to how someone on the 'other side' might read and respond to your plight.

Hi Erny, and thanks for your reply. I might look into the assistance dogs a little more thoroughly.

and yes i can understand how a breeder might be a bit nervous about putting one of their babies into such a situation. I can definitely understand it! I have no problems with a breeder telling me no, it was more the way she went about it that frustrated and upset me

And yes i have to say the foxie is based on a family decision, not necesserily on our sons needs But a small dog suits our situation, we wouldnt like to buy a bigger dog, and then down the track have to rehome it because it was too big, or didnt suit our situation in a couple of years, if that makes sense. We see a puppy as a life long commitment, not just one to hand off when things get too hard, which is why we arent just jumping in to buying a back yard dog, or the first dog we see.

If it turns out that we cant find a suitable foxie or tenterfield, then we will quite happily look at other breeds. Getting the RIGHT dog is a priority for us, and if its not a foxie, well we can live with that, but would still prefer a small dog.

The reason we have started looking for a dog, is because our son has finally outgrown the need to pull the cats tail, and pull handfuls of fur out. He is happy to sit and pat it for a while instead of teasing it. Unfortunately our dog Scruffy just does not have the energy or patience to play the way our son wants Scruffy loves his walks, but anything more? Nope! Much prefer to just laze around in bed all day lol. But he has been such a wonderful dog for my daughter who is now 11, and that is part of the reason we are looking at foxies. Scruffy has always had such a lovely temperament!

I can say you have definitely not offended me! I was the one who posted asking this question in the hope of understanding it from a breeders point of view, and you have helped me understand. So that is much appreciated thankyou.

[Red Fox]

Have a look here too.

http://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/mature/cairn-terrier.asp

http://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/dogs.asp

[moodychick]

Have a look here too.

http://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/mature/cairn-terrier.asp

http://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/dogs.asp

Thanks Secret Kei, i shall have a look shortly.

[PRADA68]

Mini Foxies make wonderful pets I have had them for well over 20 years now. They have grown up with children some with special needs. They maybe small but they are tough little blighters when it comes to kids. So gentle with all children with people in general. As for the secretary well it is not up to her to make assumptions and refuse you a puppy. Speak to other breeders within the Mini Foxie Club. I have found the club to be slow to act on anything if at all so do not take it personally.

I currently have a five year old foxie and he is brilliant with kids and adults alike. If it's a foxie you want go for it go to a breeder within the MFCA there are some wonderful breeders do not limit your search to your state as transporting from interstate is so easy.

Mini Foxies are the most loyal and fun loving dogs I love mine to death.

[Sandra777]

Up to you about the breed and yes, careful selection of a pup/adult PLUS rearing will have a lot to do with the dog's ultimate interaction with your son, but I can understand the breeder's reaction completely. To ME the Tenterfield and "mini foxie" would be a bit too breakable for the situation you describe, not saying anything would happen through cruelty or even deliberately but a child with control problems can hurt a smaller sized dog without meaning to, and despite your best efforts you can't guarantee 100% supervision at all times for the next 15 years.

I would suggest you have a look at the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and by that I mean the genuine article, not a random brindle mutt from some BYB or pound.

I have placed a number of Stafford puppies with special needs families in the past 30 years and without exception they have all been brilliant. One became the unofficial kindergarten class dog at a school which took solely special children (mostly autism). Another one went ot a family with a Downs Syndrome child and within 6 months 2 others were booked to go to other families with Downs children who went to the same specialist classes at a school and who had got to know the first girl.

They aren't a big dog, if you choose your breeder and litter right you can easily find a good one which won't be much over 14kg fully grown and although that is obviously bigger than a Tenterfield :D it's not a large dog.

[moodychick]

Mini Foxies make wonderful pets I have had them for well over 20 years now. They have grown up with children some with special needs. They maybe small but they are tough little blighters when it comes to kids. So gentle with all children with people in general. As for the secretary well it is not up to her to make assumptions and refuse you a puppy. Speak to other breeders within the Mini Foxie Club. I have found the club to be slow to act on anything if at all so do not take it personally.

I currently have a five year old foxie and he is brilliant with kids and adults alike. If it's a foxie you want go for it go to a breeder within the MFCA there are some wonderful breeders do not limit your search to your state as transporting from interstate is so easy.

Mini Foxies are the most loyal and fun loving dogs I love mine to death.

Thanks Prada! Mini foxies hold a special place in my heart!! They are such little dogs with such big hearts and attitudes,to me they are irresistible lol.

After the replies i have received here, i can understand her refusing me a pup a bit more. I guess it was also the attitude she had. She wasn't nasty, but just the way she didnt want to listen to what i was saying was upsetting.

I did actually look at buying interstate, there are some lovely breeders out there, one i had a quick chat to this morning. The problem is, because we want to match a pup or dog with our son, we would need to see them interact first, and that is the problem. I would hate to buy a pup and have it sent down here without it meeting us or us meeting it, only to find out that he or she doesn't quite have the right personality to deal with our boy.

Thats why i have been looking locally. At this stage there is a breeder in Ballarat, who have just mated their dogs, but otherwise we havent found anyone else

So

It is frustrating lol. We are ready, but unfortunately the pups are hard to get locally, and we dont want to go to a backyard breeder. So i guess at this stage, we just keep looking and ringing breeders until we can find the right one