Associate Registerattion For Bull Breed Crosses

[Dory the Doted One]

So, as I'm driving to work I'm still thinking about all this BSL and how the hell do you prove

that your dog is not a Pitbull when it doesn't have registration papers or is a crossbreed.

I've never had a dog registered with ANKC as an associate dog before, so I put it to you guys.

Do they issue paperwork for these dogs stating their breed/cross breed? And if they do, would

this be deemed acceptable by councils as proof of Breed?

Would having an assessment by an ANKC judge qualified to judge Amstaffs etc, then a Stat

Dec signed by the Judge, presented to a Vet (willing to id the dog and sign their name to it),

be an acceptable proof of Breed?

[DobieMum]

So, as I'm driving to work I'm still thinking about all this BSL and how the hell do you prove

that your dog is not a Pitbull when it doesn't have registration papers or is a crossbreed.

I've never had a dog registered with ANKC as an associate dog before, so I put it to you guys.

Do they issue paperwork for these dogs stating their breed/cross breed? And if they do, would

this be deemed acceptable by councils as proof of Breed?

Would having an assessment by an ANKC judge qualified to judge Amstaffs etc, then a Stat

Dec signed by the Judge, presented to a Vet (willing to id the dog and sign their name to it),

be an acceptable proof of Breed?

Brilliant Idea!!!

[poodlefan]

So, as I'm driving to work I'm still thinking about all this BSL and how the hell do you prove

that your dog is not a Pitbull when it doesn't have registration papers or is a crossbreed.

I've never had a dog registered with ANKC as an associate dog before, so I put it to you guys.

Do they issue paperwork for these dogs stating their breed/cross breed? And if they do, would

this be deemed acceptable by councils as proof of Breed?

Would having an assessment by an ANKC judge qualified to judge Amstaffs etc, then a Stat

Dec signed by the Judge, presented to a Vet (willing to id the dog and sign their name to it),

be an acceptable proof of Breed?

No, associate dogs are registered simply as "Associates". They must be desexed in order to be registered.

I can only hope that people heed the warnings that have been given for the past 5 years and stop buying bull breeds without papers.

[Janba]

In NSW associate register dogs don't have a breed listed and also must be desexed. Thhe form does ask for breed but the dog doesn't have to be sighted.

[Steve]

What poodle fan said

[Dory the Doted One]

*sigh* Well that's a shame.

I would've thought if it was a Cross Breed or Unregistered it should have been desexed

anyway, and didn't think that would have been a hurdle.

I wonder if it is a possiblity that could be pursued as a small ray of hope for

some people who have Rescues or active participants in obedience and agility

with their cross breeds.

ANKC seem willing to allow Judges to contribute to the ID 'Standard' of what a

Pitbull or its cross may be. Why can't they stand up for those that aren't, but

some not quite experienced council worker might deem IS. Especially if they

already are registered as an Associate with the ANKC.

[poodlefan]

*sigh* Well that's a shame.

I would've thought if it was a Cross Breed or Unregistered it should have been desexed

anyway, and didn't think that would have been a hurdle.

I love a dreamer!! Most of the crossbred dogs that feature in the media stories of attacks are undesexed males.

I wonder if it is a possiblity that could be pursued as a small ray of hope for

some people who have Rescues or active participants in obedience and agility

with their cross breeds.

I would think it neither wise, nor likely that the ANKC would attest to the breed origins of a crossbreed that simply cannot be verified. What breeds a dog "looks" to be and what they actually are can vary significantly.

ANKC seem willing to allow Judges to contribute to the ID 'Standard' of what a

Pitbull or its cross may be. Why can't they stand up for those that aren't, but

some not quite experienced council worker might deem IS. Especially if they

already are registered as an Associate with the ANKC.

I don't agree with using ANKC judges to contribute to the breed standard of a dog they will never judge (and have no experience in judging) but similarly I don't agree that they should be called upon to stick a wet finger in the air and verify the breed origins of a dog based simply on physical appearance.

The answer to 'protecting' peoples dogs is quite simple really. It lies with OWNERS. Don't buy dogs you know are going to be in the crosshairs without pedigree papers. In that regard, the ANKC stands willing to assist. Why they should be expected to defend dogs that aren't registered with them or owned by members beats me. If an existing Associate come under fire, that's another matter. But I find that highly unlikely.

Edited September 29, 2011 by poodlefan

[Cosmolo]

Maybe i am being overly sensitive but am i the only one who is getting tired of hearing things along the lines of 'don't buy dogs without papers' and 'you shouldn't have bought a bull breed cross with no papers'.

Of course we won't do it again- which is sad beause i always thought i would have rescue bull arab types in my life. But its too late now- we already have these dogs that we love and are part of our families.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Cosmolo

[poodlefan]

Maybe i am being overly sensitive but am i the only one who is getting tired of hearing things along the lines of 'don't buy dogs without papers' and 'you shouldn't have bought a bull breed cross with no papers'.

Of course we won't do it again- which is sad beause i always thought i would have rescue bull arab types in my life. But its too late now- we already have these dogs that we love and are part of our families.

Perhaps not. But perhaps I am a bit over people seemingly wishing to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted Cosmolo. And to suggest that those who are responsible for breeding dogs that aren't in the crossfire should charge to the rescue doesn't sit well with me. The ANKC has enough issues 'protecting' purebred dogs at the moment. That they should be asked to certify the breed status of dogs with indeterminate breed status is a bridge too far for me.

I suppose my anger is directed more towards people who are continuing to breed and sell such dogs in the current climate when its folk like you that face potential heartbreak. Its utterly irresponsible IMO and it seems to be the first step in a chain of irresponsible behaviour that ends in a page 1 story of a dog attack.

Any dog that passes through a pound into rescue under these current laws must have been deemed "not a pitbull" at some stage. The key will be to get and KEEP paperwork that outlines that decision. If you are getting your bull breed rescues from pounds they should be as safe as houses.

Edited September 29, 2011 by poodlefan

[Dory the Doted One]

Well, I wasn't thinking of shutting a barn door, but perhaps giving hope to those that

are stuck with things as they are now. Owners of Rescues, etc

You know. The responsible ones. A responsible owner of a 'suspect' (to council) breed, who

wanted to save their dogs life, Would probably already have it desexed or would be willing

to save its live at the expense of reproductive parts.

And why shouldn't someone with a dog on Associate Register who has particpated in ANKC

events, trained their dog etc. Not expect to get some kind of protection for their dog

from an organisation that has been taking their money over the years?

[Red Fox]

I would like to see all rescue bull breeds and crosses there-of temp tested and given an exemption. Sadly I don't think too many of them will be making it out of the pounds now.

[poodlefan]

And why shouldn't someone with a dog on Associate Register who has particpated in ANKC

events, trained their dog etc. Not expect to get some kind of protection for their dog

from an organisation that has been taking their money over the years?

I agree. I said as much. What I object to is the idea that the ANKC should be providing an Ark of protection for dogs and owners based on breed description when that simply cannot be verified. We should be FIGHTING ALL legislation that suggests that breed alone is enough predict whether a dog is 'dangerous' OR 'safe.

I think the ANKC will probably be busy enough keeping the Amstaff out of the firing line.

Edited September 29, 2011 by poodlefan

[Quickasyoucan]

Maybe i am being overly sensitive but am i the only one who is getting tired of hearing things along the lines of 'don't buy dogs without papers' and 'you shouldn't have bought a bull breed cross with no papers'.

Of course we won't do it again- which is sad beause i always thought i would have rescue bull arab types in my life. But its too late now- we already have these dogs that we love and are part of our families.

What Cosmolo said, I have met a fair few people with bull breed x's and the vast majority were rescues quite often via the RSPCA and AWL meaning they would also have been temp tested. A lot of us wanted to save a life and chose a crossbreed dog with a great temperament, 'breed' was not always the first consideration. A lot of us own dogs who have led a blameless life and been a loving family pet. Why should we be penalised for that and is their life worth less because they are not protected by a pedigree certificate.

Honestly to take a harsh stance the Vic pounds should simply stop rehoming bull breed x's or anything likely to meet the standard as they are just lining people up for a whole heap of heartache.

[poodlefan]

What Cosmolo said, I have met a fair few people with bull breed x's and the vast majority were rescues quite often via the RSPCA and AWL meaning they would also have been temp tested.

Given that it has been illegal to rehome a dog of Restricted Breed in most states for some time, those owners need to contact the place they got their dog from and get the paperwork for the dog's breed description, IF they don't already have it.

Council rangers may be the so called "experts" in breed ID now but a piece of paper saying the dog is not a restricted breed should count for something.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

According to my discussion with a staff member from DPI...

You must have pedigree paper stating the breed from ANKC or the affiliated body, they had three different ways of saying the same thing ie ANKC, state version of ANKC or ANKC affiliated breed club.

Or you can have a letter from your vet stating your dog is "a particular breed".

I'm not how to make my dog "a particular breed". A designer name incorporating three ANKC breeds? catbordpie? Kelderttle dog? heelolliepie?

My dog is a heelolliepie.

Nope - not going to work I think.

[JulesP]

I suppose my anger is directed more towards people who are continuing to breed and sell such dogs in the current climate when its folk like you that face potential heartbreak. Its utterly irresponsible IMO and it seems to be the first step in a chain of irresponsible behaviour that ends in a page 1 story of a dog attack.

Same here. I am really pissed off at the breeders of these dogs.

I find it curious that more anger isn't being directed at them considering the feelings of people here towards DD.

Cosmolo I do feel for you.

[dogdayz]

I hope the ANKC can keep the amstaff safe. I would have thought it only a short time before forged papers start circulating, and government declares ANKC registration no protection. I think ANKC needs to start looking at more secure methods to register/identify individual dogs from birth.

Hopefully rangers start by targetting those openly selling restricted breed pups in local papers, and leave the responsible owners alone. Alas i suspect it will be those owners who do the right thing and whose dogs exist in council records that will feel the force of the new laws, not the unseen, non-existant breeding dogs producing pups for any wannabee teenage thug.

[Quickasyoucan]

I suppose my anger is directed more towards people who are continuing to breed and sell such dogs in the current climate when its folk like you that face potential heartbreak. Its utterly irresponsible IMO and it seems to be the first step in a chain of irresponsible behaviour that ends in a page 1 story of a dog attack.

Same here. I am really pissed off at the breeders of these dogs.

I find it curious that more anger isn't being directed at them considering the feelings of people here towards DD.

Cosmolo I do feel for you.

The fact is that although the stated purpose of the laws may be to catch those who do the wrong thing by not registering their dogs and keeping a restricted breed the way the law is written it is capable of sweeping up a whole load of innocent and registered dogs in the dragnet. Irresponsible owners will just get rid of the pittie and get another breed of dog instead or ignore the rules hide the dog in the backyard (remember the dog that killed Ayen had not been sighted by the family who had lived there for 3 years) and increase the risks to the general public.

Even if your dog is registered (for now) the laws give councils the power to decide that they think it is a restricted breed based on a very broad description and refuse to reregister the dog leaving it open to being destroyed in the future.

So even if you have done the right thing, rescued registered and trained your dog, your dog is still at risk of losing its life because of how it looks. Councils can now go round and check every dog registered for example a a staffy x decide its a RB and refuse to reregister.

As I said before, not every bull breed without papers was acquired from a BYB by someone who couldn't be bothered to get papers wanted a cheaper dog as a status symbol.

Lots of dogs who on the papers fit the description are rescues owned by responsible people and don't even have an iota of RB in them. I have seen boxer x that would fit that description.

Besides if bull breed appearance is a predictor of behaviour (which is the premise of the law) why should papered SBTs and AST's get a free pass? Someone is going to challenge that one way or another, in the States and in Europe they don't give dogs a free pass because they have papers, a pitbull type is a pitbull type.

[zara]

Maybe i am being overly sensitive but am i the only one who is getting tired of hearing things along the lines of 'don't buy dogs without papers' and 'you shouldn't have bought a bull breed cross with no papers'.

Of course we won't do it again- which is sad beause i always thought i would have rescue bull arab types in my life. But its too late now- we already have these dogs that we love and are part of our families.

What Cosmolo said, I have met a fair few people with bull breed x's and the vast majority were rescues quite often via the RSPCA and AWL meaning they would also have been temp tested. A lot of us wanted to save a life and chose a crossbreed dog with a great temperament, 'breed' was not always the first consideration. A lot of us own dogs who have led a blameless life and been a loving family pet. Why should we be penalised for that and is their life worth less because they are not protected by a pedigree certificate.

Honestly to take a harsh stance the Vic pounds should simply stop rehoming bull breed x's or anything likely to meet the standard as they are just lining people up for a whole heap of heartache.

I don't think any dog who temperament tests well regardless of breed or appearance should be penalised and the criteria should be based on temperament and be safe if the temperament is good, the same if a good dog is purchased through the RSPCA or AWL, the owners have done the right thing and the dogs life is as valuable as any other, but I agree also with Poodlefan that in the present situation to buy a Bull cross breed is a choice that could end in tears for the owners and the dogs, personally a choice I would avoid at all costs and something people should seriously consider when choosing a dog, or if someone wants a Bull breed specifically, buy a papered dog from a registered breeder.

[Quickasyoucan]

Maybe i am being overly sensitive but am i the only one who is getting tired of hearing things along the lines of 'don't buy dogs without papers' and 'you shouldn't have bought a bull breed cross with no papers'.

Of course we won't do it again- which is sad beause i always thought i would have rescue bull arab types in my life. But its too late now- we already have these dogs that we love and are part of our families.

What Cosmolo said, I have met a fair few people with bull breed x's and the vast majority were rescues quite often via the RSPCA and AWL meaning they would also have been temp tested. A lot of us wanted to save a life and chose a crossbreed dog with a great temperament, 'breed' was not always the first consideration. A lot of us own dogs who have led a blameless life and been a loving family pet. Why should we be penalised for that and is their life worth less because they are not protected by a pedigree certificate.

Honestly to take a harsh stance the Vic pounds should simply stop rehoming bull breed x's or anything likely to meet the standard as they are just lining people up for a whole heap of heartache.

I don't think any dog who temperament tests well regardless of breed or appearance should be penalised and the criteria should be based on temperament and be safe if the temperament is good, the same if a good dog is purchased through the RSPCA or AWL, the owners have done the right thing and the dogs life is as valuable as any other, but I agree also with Poodlefan that in the present situation to buy a Bull cross breed is a choice that could end in tears for the owners and the dogs, personally a choice I would avoid at all costs and something people should seriously consider when choosing a dog, or if someone wants a Bull breed specifically, buy a papered dog from a registered breeder.

I agree but that's not much good to people who have had (and loved) their dogs for years and years...