Mason_Gibbs Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) My lab puppy is nearly 12 weeks old now, him and my older lab are very close already and i guess what im wondering is that if he really loves the older dog will he bother to ever work for me in the future? He loves his food and toys and enjoys playing / working with me but i cant help but think that he has bonded more with my other lab. I dont want to seperate etc as i love it that they get along. Edited September 29, 2011 by Mason_Gibbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 My lab puppy is nearly 12 weeks old now, him and my older lab are very close already and i guess what im wondering is that if he really loves the older dog will he bother to ever work for me in the future? He loves his food and toys and enjoys playing / working with me but i cant help but that that he has bonded more with my other lab. I dont want to seperate etc as i love it that they get along. IMO it comes down to your priorities! I keep new pups/dogs in my house separated from my older ones to start with because I don't want them developing a high value for one another. It doesn't mean they don't get along, but it stops them from getting dependent on one another. How do they go when you separate them? Is your pup able to settle comfortably on his own? Can they happily be independent of one another? These are all things I would consider in a multi dog household. I often take my dogs out and about on their own and leave their others home on their own so it's important that my dogs can cope happily on their own. I'd also look at how valuable he sees your other dog. You are worried about whether or not your puppy will work for you well, how does he focus on your now when your other dog is around? or when you are training him and other dogs are around or walk past? All things to consider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) My 2 are great mates and I never restrict their interactions when I'm home (unless training). I crate Em when I'm out, but only so she doesn't give Zig the $h!ts all day Depends on the relationship you have with the dogs I guess. Ziggy is always so excited to go training, even when Em was in season. Admittedly he was a little flirty with the girls at training but he was so keen to train. I play a fun game with my dogs - in the middle of them wrestling like mad I call out "sit!" and as soon as they sit they get released to play again. Training multiple dogs can be brilliant for building motivation too. I sometimes train both at the same time for something different - one heeling on the left and one on the right - they completely ignore each other...think I will play with that some more! ETA: From the very beginning I took Zig out alone and left Em home. He had different training and exercise requirements so I didn't have a choice. When I train at the park both dogs come unless I am using the whistle with Em as Zig goes a little troppo. Proper retrieving training/trialling and Zig stays home. Different agility/obedience levels so sometimes one comes or both come. Both go to obedience/agility trials. Both also very bonded to Mr TSD and the cats so happy to relax at home. Also I teach both dogs to concentrate with Mr TSD close by - he does SFE and videos/photographs them - Zig does not even register and Em is nearly there. Great for trials as he can film them up close for me. Edited September 29, 2011 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 My dogs are BFF and always together. They often snuggle up together and it's freaking adorable. I love that they are so close. The behaviour they display with each other doesn't occur at any other time with any other dogs or humans. I think they are dependent on each other to a degree. Definitely it's hard to take one away from the other. I try to avoid leaving one in the house on their own while I take the other out. Kivi mopes and won't eat when he doesn't have his Erik. Erik is all right unless he is aware that someone is taking Kivi and leaving him. He can't bear being left out. We always talk about doing some work on them to improve this, but never do nearly enough of it. I have no trouble whatsoever getting them to work with me rather than play with each other. In fact, I usually have to do something to restrain the one that's not being worked with because all they want to do is muscle in and take over the training session. Erik especially has to be watched, as he has a tendency to sneak in behind me and Kivi and bite Kivi on the thigh to try to drive him off. If I give Kivi a cue, Erik is all over it and will try to get in first with the cued behaviour. If I give Erik a cue, Kivi will do it as well in the hopes it will be rewarded. I usually send one off with OH or put one in a down stay to keep them busy, but sometimes train with them both at once. I get Kivi heeling on the left and Erik walking between my legs. Erik jumps over Kivi on cue and I'm trying to teach him to go under Kivi on cue. Kivi makes a beautiful obstacle. They will go and play on cue, but sometimes they would rather train and won't leave. Erik will run out, jump on Kivi half-heartedly, then race back for more training. If left to their own devices they play with each other all the time. I love that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted September 29, 2011 Author Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) My puppy gets left home alone a lot as he is only having his vacs tomorrow. He is often inside and the other outside or vice versa as their play can get a bit rough for a pup and so i have to break it up after awhile ( too much running not good for the joints) . Pup is eager to train especially if i have treats, Mason tries to muscle in on the training and even if contained will be performing the commands in the pup pen as he thinks he could still get the treat lol. I think because they are the same species naturally they will bond more but then again Mason and i have a very special bond.... I guess time will tell with the new baby what happens Edited September 29, 2011 by Mason_Gibbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
**Super_Dogs** Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 I am by no means an expert on this subject, but I have several labs, each which have been raised differently as a pup so I will share my experiences. My first labs, which was our second dog, spent all his time as a puppy with the other dog. This was many years ago so I did not know any different. He became highly attached to the other dog to the point that I could not take the other dog and leave him at home as he would cry and carry on. I did take the other dog out from when he was young to try to avoid this but it did not help any. He was very attached and all his value was the other dog. The next dog also spent all her time with the other dogs however the difference with this one is I spent more time one on one training with her. So although she loves the other dogs she see me as high value. The next edition was alittle different as she had an accident as a pup and had to be seperated from the other dogs as she could not play. So whenever we where out she was crated. This also meant I spent ALOT of time one on one with her, as she could not run around. I can see a big difference with her. While she loves the other dogs, I am definetly high value. Also she can be alittle more independent - from a young age she was happy to wonder around the yard by herself. My first dog would not go anywhere without his mate!! So, next time.......... I will keep my pup seperated for some time each day from the other dogs for several months while they are young so they do not grow too attached to the other dogs. I will also spend time each day one on one with the pup playing and training to build a stong bond and high value for me. Hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) My girl came to us at 12 weeks old, and my older boy was 5 years old at the time. From day dot she was allowed to interact with him freely. From 14 weeks old they were left in the backyard together while we were at work (full time). She holds a VERY high value for him. She adores him. She copies his behaviour, grovels and follows him around. He is very well balanced socially so he has always acted appropriately towards her... he controls their games/play and also applies discipline as he sees fit. As a result she has also grown up very well balanced socially. They both love interacting with other dogs and do so regularly. Ava got her CCD title at 16 months and her Novice title at 21 months. We have also just started agility trialling. There is absolutely NO problem with our relationship ;) I generally don't train both of them in the same session. Outside the house they do play up a bit if one is tethered/crated and one is being worked, but I never trained this out of them so I cannot expect anything else. It's the one who's tied up that I have issues with They are walked separately some mornings and together on other mornings and I did a lot of stuff with Ava by herself when she was young. Edit: My dogs spend about 50 hours a week at home together without us, so I want them to have high value for each other. IMO it's not fair to place such a high value on myself that they don't cope when I am not around. Edited September 29, 2011 by wuffles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Wuffles are you saying that you think dogs with a high value for their owner cant cope being left alone unless they have another dog they are highly attached to for company I must admit I find that quite a bizarre thing to say. Why would a dog with a high value for it's owner (but not other dogs) be unable to cope on it's own? I am surprised at the number of people who let new baby puppies run freely unsupervised with adult dogs. Before I even knew anything about dog training we never did that purely for the safety of the pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 huski no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying with MY DOGS, I like them to have a high value for each other because I think that makes their lives better when they are home without us. Choices that people make are based on risk and how much risk is acceptable to them. I wouldn't leave a puppy with my girl because of her boisterous nature but would be confident leaving one with my boy. I wouldn't do things your way either so luckily we are free to make our own choices ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 (edited) Kenz came at 8 weeks and has been left free with Ness who was nearly 8 at the time. Having said that they weren't left while I went off to work though - I spent a lot of time working from home and my mum was around the place so they weren't really left that unsupervised. Ness isn't really a "dog" dog either so Kenz bonded much stronger to me then to Ness and would rather be training then playing. I did make the effort to take Ness out without Kenz to give her some puppy free time but I have seldom taken either of my two out alone but that is more because of the older one and her propensity to want to jump fences if she is missing out. Kenz seems to have no issues going out without Ness but I only attempt that when Ness can be babysat. When I am at home my two are often in separate rooms by choice - Kenz is either downstairs or outside amusing herself, or curled on a dog bed next to my computer, Ness is often on the couch in the other room. Edited September 30, 2011 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 huski no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying with MY DOGS, I like them to have a high value for each other because I think that makes their lives better when they are home without us. Choices that people make are based on risk and how much risk is acceptable to them. I wouldn't leave a puppy with my girl because of her boisterous nature but would be confident leaving one with my boy. I wouldn't do things your way either so luckily we are free to make our own choices ;) I wasn't saying anyone had to do things "my way" or even referring to you specifically, I am just surprised how many people do leave baby puppies alone with adult dogs all the time. I thought it was more common to separate them when unsupervised (even just to give the adult dog a break) but perhaps it's not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilli_star Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 My dogs are BFF and always together. They often snuggle up together and it's freaking adorable. Awww Corvus, that is such a gorgeous picture! Is that your cat on the dog bed as well? I can only dream that my dog and cat would be able to lie on a bed together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 (edited) Pup will work for you if you establish a pattern of that behaviour resulting in reward. I would also establish a pattern of allowing the pup to experience the world without the other dog present. They need to have sufficient independence not to fall apart if the older dog isn't around. That can happen for a range of reasons and will happen permanently one day. Short walks, training sessions etc with just the pup and you will help. Edited September 30, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubitty Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 My second dog works for me just fine. She is very serious when it comes to work and Chasey often sits and watches her train. What I fear more is her love for Chasey. She just loves him a little too much for my liking and their age difference worries me as one day he may go first. I am not sure how she will cope. I have spent their entire lives trying to separate them but she just adores him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 My second dog works for me just fine. She is very serious when it comes to work and Chasey often sits and watches her train. What I fear more is her love for Chasey. She just loves him a little too much for my liking and their age difference worries me as one day he may go first. I am not sure how she will cope. I have spent their entire lives trying to separate them but she just adores him. Chasey? Has Bub been renamed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 I have a 9 month old and a 9 week old. They get play time together in the backyard when I'm home for small durations, at night they lay inside on their beds, or chewing toys. The pup comes out and about with me in the car, cafes on weekends etc etc. Older one is left in backyard, copes fine. Sometimes I have one inside, one outside, maybe pup crated randomly in another room while I train older one. When I do go out and he doesn't come, he is left in a room in the house. They rumble and play and have a great time, but the moment I look like I'm going to do something they both focus on me. So, essentially if nothing is on offer from me then they will play. Like what TSD does, I started randomly calling them if they were interacting and rewarding when they came. I just have to get off the lounge now and all eyes are on me 'is she going to get treats, is the tug going to appear'. I've noticed the older dog is trying harder to please me too, which is great! The older dog might have the better rumble moves, but I am the master of the fridge door Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Awww Corvus, that is such a gorgeous picture! Is that your cat on the dog bed as well? I can only dream that my dog and cat would be able to lie on a bed together The extra on the dog bed is my mum's Sheltie. Erik and Kivi have not grown up with cats and Erik is highly suspicious of them. There's no way he'd curl up on a bed with one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilli_star Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Awww Corvus, that is such a gorgeous picture! Is that your cat on the dog bed as well? I can only dream that my dog and cat would be able to lie on a bed together The extra on the dog bed is my mum's Sheltie. Erik and Kivi have not grown up with cats and Erik is highly suspicious of them. There's no way he'd curl up on a bed with one! Oh. Ooops. Sorry I did think just after I posted my reply, "What if that's not a cat?". In any case, it IS a gorgeous photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted September 30, 2011 Author Share Posted September 30, 2011 My older boy cuddles with my male cat all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Oh. Ooops. Sorry That's okay, no one cares. It is a cute pic. I can't bear to disturb them when they are all snuggled up like that. This morning they had us in stitches charging around the place playing a wild game of catch-n-wrestle. Erik does a mean wolf impression, launching himself at Kivi, dragging him to the ground, and pretending to tear out his throat and belly. Sometimes they crack us up. A few weeks ago Erik spent a full minute frozen in place knee-deep in the river eye stalking Kivi. Kivi was dancing around like a fool trying to get him to charge already, but Erik was determined there was a perfect moment for it and that moment hadn't arrived yet. We couldn't stop laughing it looked so ridiculous. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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