Trisven13 Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Hi all - can you please help me add to my list of things to discuss with a stud owner and get down in writing. So far I've thought of: * Costs of progesterone/mating that are allowed before checking back with me (bitch will stay with dog owner for approx 10 days as this is a last chance mating for an older maiden) * Only 2 pups on main register without the agreement of both of us * Boarding costs whilst bitch is with dog owner (or do I just provide her food?) * Stud fee - how much is it, when is it payable, is a repeat mating included (not so relevant this time as it is a repeat mating) * No pup to be moved from Limited Register to Main Register without approval of both of us That is what I've got so far but I'm sure there are many, many other things I've missed. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EISHUND Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Hi all - can you please help me add to my list of things to discuss with a stud owner and get down in writing. So far I've thought of: * Costs of progesterone/mating that are allowed before checking back with me (bitch will stay with dog owner for approx 10 days as this is a last chance mating for an older maiden) * Only 2 pups on main register without the agreement of both of us * Boarding costs whilst bitch is with dog owner (or do I just provide her food?) * Stud fee - how much is it, when is it payable, is a repeat mating included (not so relevant this time as it is a repeat mating) * No pup to be moved from Limited Register to Main Register without approval of both of us That is what I've got so far but I'm sure there are many, many other things I've missed. Thanks How many pups constitutes a litter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Depends on many things are you using there dog at stud with no conditions or is the stud dog owner putting conditions on you using her dog. You pay for boarding and send food - they are taking care of an extra dog that they would not normally have to - plus one in season. Petrol costs as they will be taking the bitch to and from the vets. Progesterone testing - you do as many are needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Serioulsy, if you are wanting to use a stud dog, on what I'm assuming is still quite a rare breed, then why limit yourself and what you can do with the litter, before you even get started. Yes, you're going to have your obvious pets, but at the same time, you could well produce an exceptional litter, in which more than two could contribute to the breed in the country. Which states CC rules are you bound by ? Because you will need to consider that the service cert, will need to be completed and handed over at the time of mating. That said, if the bitch doesn't take, you need a clause in the contract to state that the service certificate will be returned to the stud owner, before any refunds etc take place. You want to make sure that there aren't any signed service certificates out there floating around that could be used in future. Before I get confused any more, do you own the stud or are you wanting to use a stud ? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trisven13 Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 I'm using a stud and the 2 pups on main only is one of the stud owner's conditions. I'm negotiating that a final decision will be made at 8 weeks in case it is a spectacular litter but she is adamant on that as a base condition. It is the only stud available so my hands are obviously tied. She is wanting (quite rightly) to avoid the show scene being flooded with dogs of average quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 You risk personal preference stopping more than 2 puppies entering the showring if they are worthy (ie. you might feel a 3rd or 4th is worthy and the stud owner may not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 PS - if you sign a stud agreement that states no more than 2 puppies on main register then really, there's no room for you to negotiate that point. If you have it written so that it allows for further assessment at 8 weeks to determine if more than 2 puppies will be main registered you stand a better chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I keep it simple. You pay for the use of my dog and I sign a service certificate and offer you one free return if the bitch does not have pups at the time of the fist mating/s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I keep it simple. You pay for the use of my dog and I sign a service certificate and offer you one free return if the bitch does not have pups at the time of the fist mating/s. But in this case the dog Tris is using does come under agreement so she's asking for help preparing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trisven13 Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 PS - if you sign a stud agreement that states no more than 2 puppies on main register then really, there's no room for you to negotiate that point. If you have it written so that it allows for further assessment at 8 weeks to determine if more than 2 puppies will be main registered you stand a better chance. That is what I'm trying to get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EISHUND Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Sorry to go OT, but is it common practise to restrict registration of puppies when allowing someone to use your stud dog? I've come across it in a different breed, where the only pup on main could be the one the bitch owner kept. This is just unheard of in the GSD world. (Yes i know I have WSS, but there are not many of us yet for weird things to creep in LOL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) Sorry to go OT, but is it common practise to restrict registration of puppies when allowing someone to use your stud dog? I've come across it in a different breed, where the only pup on main could be the one the bitch owner kept. This is just unheard of in the GSD world. (Yes i know I have WSS, but there are not many of us yet for weird things to creep in LOL) I'm not sure if it's common practice but I have a clause where I need to agree to puppies going into show/breeding homes - I don't want my breeding going to every tom, dick and harry. Edited September 28, 2011 by Aziah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trisven13 Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) Sorry to go OT, but is it common practise to restrict registration of puppies when allowing someone to use your stud dog? I've come across it in a different breed, where the only pup on main could be the one the bitch owner kept. This is just unheard of in the GSD world. (Yes i know I have WSS, but there are not many of us yet for weird things to creep in LOL) I'm not sure if it's common practice but I have a clause where I need to agree to puppies going into show/breeding homes - I don't want my breeding going to every tom, dick and harry. And that is very much the case here - with a rare breed it is really important that the quality that is in the ring is as good as it can possibly be. The stud dog is very nice and has done more winning in the 9 months he has been in the country than any other dog in the breed including the first Best in Group for a Fauve. I understand why she wants what she wants, I just don't want to be too restricted if we happen to have a spectacular litter. ETA we also have a good relationship where we can discuss things and disagree - we are setting up an agreement so that we can keep that relationship. Edited September 28, 2011 by Trisven13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Sorry to go OT, but is it common practise to restrict registration of puppies when allowing someone to use your stud dog? I've come across it in a different breed, where the only pup on main could be the one the bitch owner kept. This is just unheard of in the GSD world. (Yes i know I have WSS, but there are not many of us yet for weird things to creep in LOL) I have seen an agreement that goes one step further, where the only one pup can be registered on mains, it must be kept by the owner of the bitch, but said pup cannot be male. Quite restrictive, if you end up with a litter of males. this wasn't in my breed though. I am not aware of it in Weimaraners at all but no doubt it's there between some stud owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I would want the option written in for more then 2 puppies to go on main register if both parties agree and I would want to know what happens if there are only pet quality pups in the litter. Would you be allowed to main register the best female of the lot to breed from? It is a rare breed and while there may not be a show quality pup available there very well may be a pup suitable to continue the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilaryo Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Wow this is interesting! I have never heard of conditional terms made by the stud dog owner. Obviously some may not allow use of their dogs for various reasons. I can understand with a rare breed why in this instance, but under normal conditions I wouldn't like anyone dictating to me what I can/can't do with my puppies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) Wow this is interesting! I have never heard of conditional terms made by the stud dog owner. Obviously some may not allow use of their dogs for various reasons. I can understand with a rare breed why in this instance, but under normal conditions I wouldn't like anyone dictating to me what I can/can't do with my puppies. I still laugh at the thought of one stud contract I read. The owner of the stud dog would tell the bitch's owner which puppies could be registered (others had to be sold unregistered, this was OK with the canine control at that time and in that place). They could decide that none could be registered. The owner of the stud dog would be allowed to use FREE OF CHARGE any descendant of that dog owned by the bitch's owner for 4 generations. (I think it meant only 1 mating, not every single dog) There were various other clauses. The kicker of all this? The dog was 2 years old. The dog had never been used at stud before. The dog had been bought by the owner when it was 6 months old so not owner-bred AND the dog was the first pedigree dog they had ever owned. I owned the sire (an imported dog) and the dam was owned by some friends who had bred the bitch but she was from their first litter and this dog was from their second (and final) litter. They had kept the dog out of the litter but split up so had sold him to these people, with the verbal agreement that I was the only one allowed to approve or otherwise this dog being used at stud. Not because we had any agreement at all over this, but because they thought it was best the new comers have some guidance. Needless to say the long standing and very successful breeder who had enquired about using the dog said no thanks and came and used his half bother that I owned. Some people never fail to amaze and amuse! Edited September 29, 2011 by Sandra777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Sorry OP misunderstood. Think I would be Importing Semen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Sorry to go OT, but is it common practise to restrict registration of puppies when allowing someone to use your stud dog? I've come across it in a different breed, where the only pup on main could be the one the bitch owner kept. This is just unheard of in the GSD world. (Yes i know I have WSS, but there are not many of us yet for weird things to creep in LOL) I know quite a few people who do it, in my breed and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha bet Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Rare breeds wanting to restrict who owns and shows or breeds = breed remaining rare and in danger of disappearing. Surely we should be trying to encourage more people into the show and breeding scene, not discourage. Back in the 80's the only choice a stud dog owner really had was to decide to either allow the bitch to be mated to his dog and what fee or puppy would be paid - why does this need to change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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