Pm's 'cavoodle'

[toy*dog]

Most of the dogs that I have seen with PRA are lab/poodle crosses.

It is much rarer these days in pure labs and poodles because most breeders are doing the right thing and testing the parents.

According to our health survey and that we are talking about a poddle cross cav and PRA the chances are remote that PRA would be a problem.

However SM, mitrio valve desease, luxating patellas - high risk. Higher risk than in a purebred pup whose parents have been tested.

It can however have up to 69 different coat combinations.

well that is a good point, we have had surveys for pedigrees i know MDBA did a survey for health across all breeds, but it is difficult to survey cross breeds and particularly dogs and crosses from these farms but going on what i know that are problems with our pedigrees and farmers having F1 crosses that all the things we deal with they'd have to deal with too. Its not necessary to produce pups that are healthy as most people when the pups are young don't know and also some genetic problems only come out when the dog is mature.

i mean what do these farmers do when they get buyers coming back with a sick dog? or do the buyers bother coming back. sometimes buyers don't want the 3rd degree they say from reg breeders so get a pup from a farm or shop where they aren't asked any questions so go on their merry way never to be heard from again i suppose. so maybe they dont' come back and make the farmer accountable. dont know what goes on.

[Steve]

My understanding is that PA is at least polygenic and could well be a high degree of environmental - along the lines of HD so crossing breeds prone to either can bring a whole heap of polygenic causes together and they don't all have to be identical to cause a problem (I know that's not a scientific explanation)

PRA is simple recessive but the recessive is not necessarily the same in all breeds as I understand it so you would need to get the same recessive from two different breeds to have a problem.

i don't know about that unless there is some literature around that has proven that to be the case, has anyone proven that with results? you'd have to breed crosses to find out i suppose but i believe myself that my understanding is PRA is PRA there's not all different types of the one disease so 2 dogs on 2 sides of the family have PRA regardless of their breed bang then you get it expressed in one pup or several pups.

maybe someone would be able to shed more light on this.

No they couldnt just say one day we can now identify PRA in all breeds - they had to find the specific genes which are different and peculiar to each breed .This is why there are over 100 breeds but only about a quarter so far have DNA available for PRA . So if you had 2 poodles where PRA is noted as a large potential problem in the breed who were carriers or affected you can get affected pups but its not that much of a big deal in cavs and the specific gene is unlikely to be in both breeds.Even if both parents had PRA the chances of the pups getting PRA on a first cross is very remote and wouldnt justify a need to test either parent for the purposes of breeding.

However, if later on the PM's dog did turn out to have PRA that would mean the breeder has bred carriers or affected dogs and would be looking at a gaol term as they bred them in Victoria.

[LizT]

A Golden Retriever called Abbey.....and no-one objected to that!! :D

That's probably because people don't know where it came from.

The puppy farm, where Krudd got his dog from, also sell....Shitese! :rofl: Now that is sad. Presumably a Shi Tzu x Maltese?

Grow up! making fun of names is appropriate to 10 yr olds, not adults. Please include some substance if you have a beef with someone's position. Who gives a hoot if Kevin Rudd bought a GR from a kennel that also sells some other breed or cross breed. If I put on my economic justice hat, I could probably knock you pretty bad for something . . . buying gasoline from a nasty petroleum producer, buying wood from a company that buys unsustainably produced timber, buying coffee from some source that screws the primary producers, blood diamond in your engagement ring? . . . etc., etc., etc..

I hesitate to say this on a purebreed forum, but my experience in running a boarding kennel is that the Shi Tzu x Maltese is a particularly successful F1 hybrid. They tend to be healthy and be a bit more moderate in temperament than either of the parent breeds. I don't advocate cross breeding. But I do object to pure breed enthusiasts making fools of themselves by making fun of things that the broader public doesn't see as a problem.

If you're going to criticize, please do so responsibly, with substance. Pre-adolescent humour doesn't help a policy debate.

(I'm considering taking on another personna .. . 'wet blanket' . . . a wet blanket is what some of these little flare ups call for).

hmmm....maybe 'Fire Blanket' would be better....a 'Wet Blanket' is also the definition of a "Party Pooper" ??

[toy*dog]

Most of the dogs that I have seen with PRA are lab/poodle crosses.

It is much rarer these days in pure labs and poodles because most breeders are doing the right thing and testing the parents.

According to our health survey and that we are talking about a poddle cross cav and PRA the chances are remote that PRA would be a problem.

However SM, mitrio valve desease, luxating patellas - high risk. Higher risk than in a purebred pup whose parents have been tested.

It can however have up to 69 different coat combinations.

groomers say it is often a nightmare a DD's coat? it has different textures in it, so i guess some would have non-shedding and shedding coat mixed in as well on the same dog.

[Steve]

Most of the dogs that I have seen with PRA are lab/poodle crosses.

It is much rarer these days in pure labs and poodles because most breeders are doing the right thing and testing the parents.

According to our health survey and that we are talking about a poddle cross cav and PRA the chances are remote that PRA would be a problem.

However SM, mitrio valve desease, luxating patellas - high risk. Higher risk than in a purebred pup whose parents have been tested.

It can however have up to 69 different coat combinations.

well that is a good point, we have had surveys for pedigrees i know MDBA did a survey for health across all breeds, but it is difficult to survey cross breeds and particularly dogs and crosses from these farms but going on what i know that are problems with our pedigrees and farmers having F1 crosses that all the things we deal with they'd have to deal with too. Its not necessary to produce pups that are healthy as most people when the pups are young don't know and also some genetic problems only come out when the dog is mature.

i mean what do these farmers do when they get buyers coming back with a sick dog? or do the buyers bother coming back. sometimes buyers don't want the 3rd degree they say from reg breeders so get a pup from a farm or shop where they aren't asked any questions so go on their merry way never to be heard from again i suppose. so maybe they dont' come back and make the farmer accountable. dont know what goes on.

I can tell you what one did last Monday when a buyer came back with a complaint the dog now 6 months old was nipping the kids .She tried to educate the buyer on how to stop this kind of play and suggested a trainer - the owner didnt want to go that way so the breeder offered to give them a full refund and bring the dog back to them. Rescue advised the owner that he shouldnt do that as because it was a lab cross poodle and desexed the breeder would take it home and shoot it.

WouLD the breeder pay 1600 to bring a dog home to shoot it ? I dont think so. I dont know what any of the others do but I know registered breeders who wouldnt offer to buy a dog back 6 months later let alone if it was genetic or sick.

When I bought one of mine I offered the breeder membership with the MDBA and she told me she couldnt join because she couldnt agree to the code .She said I dont care what happens to that dog after its gone home and Im not agreeing to help the owner to be irresponsible.

So the answer is what does any breeder do in this situation? You have to judge each on a case by case basis and you cant lump the likely outcome on what group they happen to slot into.

[toy*dog]

My understanding is that PA is at least polygenic and could well be a high degree of environmental - along the lines of HD so crossing breeds prone to either can bring a whole heap of polygenic causes together and they don't all have to be identical to cause a problem (I know that's not a scientific explanation)

PRA is simple recessive but the recessive is not necessarily the same in all breeds as I understand it so you would need to get the same recessive from two different breeds to have a problem.

i don't know about that unless there is some literature around that has proven that to be the case, has anyone proven that with results? you'd have to breed crosses to find out i suppose but i believe myself that my understanding is PRA is PRA there's not all different types of the one disease so 2 dogs on 2 sides of the family have PRA regardless of their breed bang then you get it expressed in one pup or several pups.

maybe someone would be able to shed more light on this.

No they couldnt just say one day we can now identify PRA in all breeds - they had to find the specific genes which are different and peculiar to each breed .This is why there are over 100 breeds but only about a quarter so far have DNA available for PRA . So if you had 2 poodles where PRA is noted as a large potential problem in the breed who were carriers or affected you can get affected pups but its not that much of a big deal in cavs and the specific gene is unlikely to be in both breeds.Even if both parents had PRA the chances of the pups getting PRA on a first cross is very remote and wouldnt justify a need to test either parent for the purposes of breeding.

However, if later on the PM's dog did turn out to have PRA that would mean the breeder has bred carriers or affected dogs and would be looking at a gaol term as they bred them in Victoria.

yes! there's a law now about i think it is, knowingly breeding dogs with health problems or something to that effect, can never remember the exact wording have to do a search for it.

have the farmers considered that, what happens if the PM's dog gets a heart problem, or PRA or severe grade 3-4 patella lux or even HD, what happens then i wonder?

[JulesP]

groomers say it is often a nightmare a DD's coat? it has different textures in it, so i guess some would have non-shedding and shedding coat mixed in as well on the same dog.

I found the oodles pretty easy to groom. That is the poodle x spaniels. Lab x just took ages because of the size. All the owners wanted them clipped off. Didn't have any that wanted to keep a long coat.

The SWF were a frigging nightmare.

I also found the oodles to have better temperaments. Didn't have any try to have a go at me. Unlike the SWF.

Same with teaching them obedience. I way prefer the oodle crosses to the SWF crosses.

[toy*dog]

So the answer is what does any breeder do in this situation? You have to judge each on a case by case basis and you cant lump the likely outcome on what group they happen to slot into.

im not trying to judge anyone i am just genuinely interested in what, particularly BCF who are show casing themselves to everyone now, do when they do breed a sick dog that clearly is a result of a genetic problem in their "stock". i know that most of the time pups are bred blindly, and even in some cases the same stud is used on a wide gene pool and then perhaps there is a need to inbreed several times not just once which is very dangerous given that they ARE breeding blindly. in my experience inbreeding should only take place if you know the bloodlines thoroughly. where would they get studs from.

but anyway genetics and breeding is a very hard thing to do if you want to produce sound healthy dogs and its a hit and miss project taking many years to accomplish.

Edited September 30, 2011 by toy*dog

[toy*dog]

groomers say it is often a nightmare a DD's coat? it has different textures in it, so i guess some would have non-shedding and shedding coat mixed in as well on the same dog.

I found the oodles pretty easy to groom. That is the poodle x spaniels. Lab x just took ages because of the size. All the owners wanted them clipped off. Didn't have any that wanted to keep a long coat.

The SWF were a frigging nightmare.

I also found the oodles to have better temperaments. Didn't have any try to have a go at me. Unlike the SWF.

Same with teaching them obedience. I way prefer the oodle crosses to the SWF crosses.

so a small white fluffy can be maltese, shitzu, lhasa and what else?? where as oodles are ofcourse poodle crosses. oh okay, that is interesting.

[HugL]

I can't believe that someone who is supposed to be as educated as the PM position requires is going ahead with this purchase.

Firstly the RSPCA advertise that "pets are not presents but for life". Is this pet not a present???

Secondly the dog is a very expensive cross bred. While is has a fancy title, it is a cross bred with no regulated health checks and no real history to show what it should end up like or where the breeder is bettering the breed. How can it be worth that much money??

Thirdly, all the DD's that I know have ended up having major surgery for their first birthday. Is Julia prepared for this expense??

If we look at this situation the other way around it could be the nail in the coffin that we need to show what PF are really like. In 12 months time, Julia could be looking at her dog having major surgery. This will be reported and then "experts" may get a chance to explain why. If the finger gets pointed at the PF, our biggest supporter may be Julia herself.

Think before you comment. If we keep this on track without attacking each other, it can be produced later to show Julia that we do have a good idea what is going on. And we are all united on this issue.

[Steve]

yes! there's a law now about i think it is, knowingly breeding dogs with health problems or something to that effect, can never remember the exact wording have to do a search for it.

have the farmers considered that, what happens if the PM's dog gets a heart problem, or PRA or severe grade 3-4 patella lux or even HD, what happens then i wonder?

The law says they cant breed a carrier or an affected animal but so far only 5 diseases are listed as the 5 you cant breed and they are all recessives. when it was all happening we had a big maon about it and said it would stop people testing - which it did - so they added in the word wreckless - so if you have a breed which is prone to one of these and you dont test and therefore know you have a carrier or an affected you could go down

Its a law most likely to affected purebred breeders because you need two carriers for the thing to show .For example if there is a test available for PRA in your breed but you think its not a biggy and you choose not to test and in 6 years time the pup turns up with PRA or its tested and is shown to have PRA you are more likely to be done in than a cross bred breeder .

[Steve]

So the answer is what does any breeder do in this situation? You have to judge each on a case by case basis and you cant lump the likely outcome on what group they happen to slot into.

im not trying to judge anyone i am just genuinely interested in what, particularly BCF who are show casing themselves to everyone now, do when they do breed a sick dog that clearly is a result of a genetic problem in their "stock". i know that most of the time pups are bred blindly, and even in some cases the same stud is used on a wide gene pool and then perhaps there is a need to inbreed several times not just once which is very dangerous given that they ARE breeding blindly. in my experience inbreeding should only take place if you know the bloodlines thoroughly. where would they get studs from.

but anyway genetics and breeding is a very hard thing to do if you want to produce sound healthy dogs and its a hit and miss project taking many years to accomplish.

They are only breding first crosses - They are only ever breeding first crosses so they dont have to consider the same things we do because we also have to consider the future generations and not just the ones in one litter. there is no in breeding and there is less liklihood of recessive diseases showing .There is still the same risks as polygenic issues showing - More so if the problem is impacted by nutrition of the bitch or environment they are raised in etc if they are covering those things.Every pup they breed is a lucky dip - we use science to breed healthier predictible dogs over muliti generations.

[JulesP]

I can't believe that someone who is supposed to be as educated as the PM position requires is going ahead with this purchase.

Firstly the RSPCA advertise that "pets are not presents but for life". Is this pet not a present???

Secondly the dog is a very expensive cross bred. While is has a fancy title, it is a cross bred with no regulated health checks and no real history to show what it should end up like or where the breeder is bettering the breed. How can it be worth that much money??

Thirdly, all the DD's that I know have ended up having major surgery for their first birthday. Is Julia prepared for this expense??

If we look at this situation the other way around it could be the nail in the coffin that we need to show what PF are really like. In 12 months time, Julia could be looking at her dog having major surgery. This will be reported and then "experts" may get a chance to explain why. If the finger gets pointed at the PF, our biggest supporter may be Julia herself.

Think before you comment. If we keep this on track without attacking each other, it can be produced later to show Julia that we do have a good idea what is going on. And we are all united on this issue.

I actually don't know any oodles that have had problems and I imagine that I got/get to see more of them then the average dog owner as a groomer and obedience instructor. Know a shitload of purebred dogs with serious problems though so really that isn't a good argument.

Billabong actually offers a 1 year health guarantee so if the pup has a problem on its first birthday it may be covered.

[toy*dog]

found this from DPI website: im trying to find the legislation that was passed in Vic a few years ago about the breeding of dogs and knowingly breeding a dog with a disease you are liable. can't find it. can anyone help me?

Operation of Dog and Cat Breeding Establishments

Legislation

Under the provisions of the Domestic Animals Act 1994 any person who runs an enterprise (being a business) for profit (whether the business makes a profit is irrelevant) that breeds dogs and/or cats, that person must register their premises as a domestic animal business with their local council before they can operate. While this type of business is known as a breeding and/or rearing establishment, some members of the public call these businesses “puppy farms” or “puppy mills”. Council domestic animal business registration is an annual process and Councils are required to report the number of domestic animal businesses registered with them to the State Government annually.

Dog and/or cat breeding establishment proprietors must operate in accord with the mandatory Code of Practice established by the State Government for the purpose of providing minimum standards of accommodation, management and care which are considered appropriate to the welfare, physical and behavioural needs of the animals housed at these establishments. In the case of a breeding establishment the mandatory Code is known as the ‘Code of Practice for the Operation of Breeding and Rearing Establishments’.

A person who is a member of an Applicable Organisation (including Dogs Victoria, Cat Authority of Victoria, Feline Control Council, Governing Council of the Cat Fancy and Waratah National Cat Alliance) that registers their puppies and/or kittens with that Organisation and has less than 10 fertile females of either species is not required to be registered as a breeding establishment with their Council. The reason for this is that these groups have been approved as Applicable Organisations due to their members being required to operate in accord with a Code of Ethics established by their Organisation. The Code of Ethics established by these organisations mandate responsible breeding and responsible pet ownership principles which are similar to the aims of the mandatory Code of Practice.

Breeding establishment proprietor responsibilities

Proprietors of breeding establishments must provide for the well being of all the animals kept at their establishment. They are responsible for supervision of staff, collation of records relating to breeding, the supervision of appropriate feeding programs, maintaining a high level of hygiene at their premises and ensuring veterinary care for the animals kept at the establishment.

Proprietors of breeding establishments can only offer animals for sale that have been vaccinated at least fourteen days prior to sale and must on sale or giving away an animal ensure the animal is implanted with a microchip. The proprietor must notify the Council in which the animal is to be kept of the name, address and microchip number of the animal sold from or given away from their premises.

Proprietors must provide literature to a person who purchases animals from them; this literature must include information on responsible pet ownership, appropriate housing and feeding. The proprietor must also provide a guarantee to the purchaser stating that if the animal is unacceptable for any reason that the animal can be returned within three days for a 75% refund of the purchase price or an offer of an animal of equal value with the same guarantee. Also within seven days, the proprietor must provide a similar guarantee on health grounds if supported by documentation from a veterinarian that the animal is sick after purchase. If the animal dies or is euthanased due to a disease traceable to point of sale, the proprietor must refund the purchase price or offer a replacement animal with the same guarantee.

Council responsibilities

Council must register breeding establishments to allow them to operate and should conduct annual audits or regular inspections to ensure these proprietors are operating their establishment in accord with the mandatory Code of Practice.

Council should follow up on the registration of animals purchased from breeding establishments as they must be notified by the proprietor of the establishment when an animal sold from their business is expected to be kept in that municipal district.

If you have an issue with the operation of a breeding establishment in your area

As the council is responsible for registering and authorising the operation of breeding establishments, you should report any concerns you may have to the Council for their action. Council may expect you to provide the information in writing to provide them with ‘reasonable grounds’ to investigate your claims.

Council has Authorised Officers that have the power to enter breeding establishments on reasonable grounds and at reasonable times to investigate the compliance of these establishments with the Act and mandatory Code of Practice.

If the breeding establishment is unregistered the Council can prosecute the proprietor for operating an unregistered breeding establishment, this offence carries a penalty of 10 penalty units in the Magistrates Court. Also, if the proprietor sells an animal from an unregistered premise this is also an offence which carries a penalty of 10 penalty units in court.

If the breeding establishment proprietor is not operating their business in accord with the mandatory Code of Practice, Council Officers can issue infringements or file charges in the Magistrates Court. Each breach carries a penalty of up to 10 penalty units in court.

Edited September 30, 2011 by toy*dog

[toy*dog]

I can't believe that someone who is supposed to be as educated as the PM position requires is going ahead with this purchase.

Firstly the RSPCA advertise that "pets are not presents but for life". Is this pet not a present???

Secondly the dog is a very expensive cross bred. While is has a fancy title, it is a cross bred with no regulated health checks and no real history to show what it should end up like or where the breeder is bettering the breed. How can it be worth that much money??

Thirdly, all the DD's that I know have ended up having major surgery for their first birthday. Is Julia prepared for this expense??

If we look at this situation the other way around it could be the nail in the coffin that we need to show what PF are really like. In 12 months time, Julia could be looking at her dog having major surgery. This will be reported and then "experts" may get a chance to explain why. If the finger gets pointed at the PF, our biggest supporter may be Julia herself.

Think before you comment. If we keep this on track without attacking each other, it can be produced later to show Julia that we do have a good idea what is going on. And we are all united on this issue.

I actually don't know any oodles that have had problems and I imagine that I got/get to see more of them then the average dog owner as a groomer and obedience instructor. Know a shitload of purebred dogs with serious problems though so really that isn't a good argument.

Billabong actually offers a 1 year health guarantee so if the pup has a problem on its first birthday it may be covered.

well thats going to be interesting if the pup ends up with a inherited disease they offer to replace it, and i know of many owners who are attached to the dog by then so don't want it replaced or they offer their money back but that still doesn't address the problem that the owner has a sick dog and even if breeder says give the money back, sometimes the owner still isn't very happy with the breeder afterwards as the breeder sold them a dog that eventually got sick, it sometimes does nothing towards the attitude of the buyer offering an olive branch, been on the end of that and so has many other breeders, i should explain in reference to PL. so its going to be very interesting what transpires!

Edited September 30, 2011 by toy*dog

[toy*dog]

I can't believe that someone who is supposed to be as educated as the PM position requires is going ahead with this purchase.

Firstly the RSPCA advertise that "pets are not presents but for life". Is this pet not a present???

Secondly the dog is a very expensive cross bred. While is has a fancy title, it is a cross bred with no regulated health checks and no real history to show what it should end up like or where the breeder is bettering the breed. How can it be worth that much money??

Thirdly, all the DD's that I know have ended up having major surgery for their first birthday. Is Julia prepared for this expense??

If we look at this situation the other way around it could be the nail in the coffin that we need to show what PF are really like. In 12 months time, Julia could be looking at her dog having major surgery. This will be reported and then "experts" may get a chance to explain why. If the finger gets pointed at the PF, our biggest supporter may be Julia herself.

Think before you comment. If we keep this on track without attacking each other, it can be produced later to show Julia that we do have a good idea what is going on. And we are all united on this issue.

I actually don't know any oodles that have had problems and I imagine that I got/get to see more of them then the average dog owner as a groomer and obedience instructor. Know a shitload of purebred dogs with serious problems though so really that isn't a good argument.

Billabong actually offers a 1 year health guarantee so if the pup has a problem on its first birthday it may be covered.

many years ago having a friend that wanted to show and breed cavs, this breed was fashionable then and there were many cavs around bred poorly and had many genetic problems i.e. heart, Patella lux etc. but what i've found is that certain breeds get overbred because of being popular so the purebreeds that you saw could have been a product of that fashion, the farm where K Rudd suposedly got his pooch from i see they also have purebreds, although i'd say probably not really good examples of any breed. So in the same boat as a DD really. hope you get where im coming from. in the late 70's it was afghans they were the most popular dog everyone bred them to get more money, now you very rarely see this dog. im hoping with DD's that they will also faze out and go the same way.

im hoping beyond hope really aren't i. i think its been about 15 years so far and they are still here. and the net i see getting on the net in '97 when there weren't many breeders around then there were some but not a whole lot, has done nothing to curb this DD craze infact its fueled it.

Edited September 30, 2011 by toy*dog

[JulesP]

DDs are not going to faze out. Pretty much everyone I know that owns one would buy another one.

Why is it going to be interesting if Julia's pup gets sick? Would it have been interesting if she had got a purebred and that had got sick??? That would not have been good publicity. I doubt very much her dog getting sick will make the news anyhow.

I hope her and her dog have a long and happy time together.

[Steve]

I can't believe that someone who is supposed to be as educated as the PM position requires is going ahead with this purchase.

Firstly the RSPCA advertise that "pets are not presents but for life". Is this pet not a present???

Secondly the dog is a very expensive cross bred. While is has a fancy title, it is a cross bred with no regulated health checks and no real history to show what it should end up like or where the breeder is bettering the breed. How can it be worth that much money??

Thirdly, all the DD's that I know have ended up having major surgery for their first birthday. Is Julia prepared for this expense??

If we look at this situation the other way around it could be the nail in the coffin that we need to show what PF are really like. In 12 months time, Julia could be looking at her dog having major surgery. This will be reported and then "experts" may get a chance to explain why. If the finger gets pointed at the PF, our biggest supporter may be Julia herself.

Think before you comment. If we keep this on track without attacking each other, it can be produced later to show Julia that we do have a good idea what is going on. And we are all united on this issue.

I actually don't know any oodles that have had problems and I imagine that I got/get to see more of them then the average dog owner as a groomer and obedience instructor. Know a shitload of purebred dogs with serious problems though so really that isn't a good argument.

Billabong actually offers a 1 year health guarantee so if the pup has a problem on its first birthday it may be covered.

well thats going to be interesting if the pup ends up with a inherited disease they offer to replace it, and i know of many owners who are attached to the dog by then so don't want it replaced or they offer their money back but that still doesn't address the problem that the owner has a sick dog and even if breeder says give the money back, sometimes the owner still isn't very happy with the breeder afterwards as the breeder sold them a dog that eventually got sick, it sometimes does nothing towards the attitude of the buyer offering an olive branch, been on the end of that and so has many other breeders, i should explain in reference to PL. so its going to be very interesting what transpires!

The AAPDB have in their codes that they cant demand the dog back if they refund

[Guest Black Obsession]

Julia would never admit that her designer dog puppy ended up with a hereditary disease...and the puppy farmer would never admit to breeding one. They probably have a 'sales contract' that frees them from all responsibility.

Edited September 30, 2011 by Black Obsession

[Steve]

Stop comparing us to them .I dont want a discussion here defending them or promoting them and when you bring in all this crap they supposedly do or dont do its a waste of energy .For everything you come up with there is a counter argument and everyone else can see it .

Again- tell me about what you do and why you do it and how bloody wonderful your dogs are

Nominate any dog owner, rescue breeder or antyone else who is doing a great job and lets make THEM famous and the talk of the town so peopel can see the difference.