mini girl Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 My girl lost her first litter at 51 days all born alive but much too early - she is now 43 days along today - took her to the reproduction vet specialist Phil Thomas Chermside Brisbane - at 4 weeks for ultra sound and blood test - all was going good - progesterone level 85 - took her back this morning (2 weeks later) for another ultra sound and blood test - ultra sound looked good but the blood test came back at 39 she is to be blood tested again on Thursday - he advises best not give her the progesterone till it drops to 30 or below so guess all we can do is keep testing and follow his advice -he said giving the progesterone tablets too early can result in abnormalities in the pups - also supresses the immune system of the mother - its all a bit of a worry but would be very interested to hear from others who have gone down this road. He said also that it nearly always results in a ceaser birth - did have a girl have a ceaser 18 years or so ago - she went fine after so I guess that is not a real worry. Guess I am just looking for reassurance - or advice of what may happen - hoping all will be well this time - but as said would really be interested in anyone who has also gone down this road before or a link on this that explaines the levels thoughout pregnancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 No experience of this however wishing you the best of luck. Questions I wonder about when these type of things occur is Is it worth breeding from a mum like this again & is this likely to be hereditary in her offspring ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordogs Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Just from speaking of this recently, I would probably start progesterone now, if she goes much lower she will probably loose the litter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Just from speaking of this recently, I would probably start progesterone now, if she goes much lower she will probably loose the litter. I agree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 No experience of this however wishing you the best of luck. Questions I wonder about when these type of things occur is Is it worth breeding from a mum like this again & is this likely to be hereditary in her offspring ? Not in my experience thus far...3 daughters and none of them with progesterone issues when they were eventually bred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 No experience of this however wishing you the best of luck. Questions I wonder about when these type of things occur is Is it worth breeding from a mum like this again & is this likely to be hereditary in her offspring ? This will probably be the only time I put my girl through this - too much of a worry - don't know if it could be hereditary or not - she came from a very good breeding bitch - had good litters without problems. Thank you for the good wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kustali Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I would supp sooner rather than later, it could drop even lower and she could lose the puppies, in my opinion it's better to be safe than sorry. There is not alot of info out there, also most don't believe in it or know much about it, apart from talking to other breeders who have had trouble previously (losing litters) and then deciding to prog test and supplement finding that the bitches then carry to term, delivering happy healthy puppies. I had a thread somewhere with this subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 Thanks Hannah - just read the thread you put on - I have an appointment to take her in the morning for another blood test - she is now 44 days into the pregnancy - The reproduction vet also said that the levels can fluctuate and think he wants to be sure before the supliments begin - I meanwhile am watching her like a hawk - he said any change whatsoever bring her in - she seems fine at present eating and happy but I will be so glad when I know all is ok. Did your girl need a ceaser - he said its much more common that they will after having progesterone tablets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMonaro Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) Thanks Hannah - just read the thread you put on - I have an appointment to take her in the morning for another blood test - she is now 44 days into the pregnancy - The reproduction vet also said that the levels can fluctuate and think he wants to be sure before the supliments begin - I meanwhile am watching her like a hawk - he said any change whatsoever bring her in - she seems fine at present eating and happy but I will be so glad when I know all is ok. Did your girl need a ceaser - he said its much more common that they will after having progesterone tablets. I know someone familiar with progesterone supplements etc. Here is a link to his website about it. Giving Progesterone You can always give David a call or an email and ask him questions - he is always very helpful. Edited September 29, 2011 by MissMonaro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisart Dobes Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 I have not had this with our girls but know of quite a few people who have done this recently with their bitches who have previously lost litters - all had to have c/sections and all have only had 2 or 3 puppies at most. Will be interesting to see what happens in the future with the progeny. To me mother nature knows best and there are reasons bitches don't take or can't bring a litter to term. I, personally wouldn't breed a bitch who had previously lost a litter for this reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted September 29, 2011 Author Share Posted September 29, 2011 My girl had another blood test today and the progesterone had dropped to 37 so she started today on the tablets - one each morning - I have another appointment in a week tomorrow to check her levels and see how she is going - trying to think positively - the ultra sound at 4 weeks showed 6 pups so hoping all will go well. But won't put her through it again - the reproduction vet specialist is very good I hear and the day I took my girl in at 4 weeks there was also a border collie who was being treated for the same thing - she was there for her ceasar and apparently all went well. So here's hoping we will get there with healthy puppies and a good result for mum. But I don't think I could ever go through it again - but this thread may help some others in the future. A little concerned for the ceaser - had a girl about 18 years ago had to have a ceaser - she was fine but I have forgotten what's involved taking care of mum and the new pups - but my vet told me today he will be telling me a lot over the next couple of weeks - she is 45 days today from her first mating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted September 29, 2011 Author Share Posted September 29, 2011 I have not had this with our girls but know of quite a few people who have done this recently with their bitches who have previously lost litters - all had to have c/sections and all have only had 2 or 3 puppies at most. Will be interesting to see what happens in the future with the progeny. To me mother nature knows best and there are reasons bitches don't take or can't bring a litter to term. I, personally wouldn't breed a bitch who had previously lost a litter for this reason. Trouble is you are not always 100% sure of what caused the first lost litter - so do you just give up when you have such a lovely girl - anyway I have got to see it through now - sometimes I think mother nature may know best but sometimes a helping hand results in something beautiful both in animals and humans - we have come so far with medical advances its a shame not to take advantage of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) Minigirl, I know well that BC. Not one of mine, but a friends dog. As for that vet specialist.. It is probably too late now, but please find another. I can offer some recommendations. If they lose their progesterone once, theres is a high chance they will do it again. I would personally not breed the bitch again after this litter. From what I know of what my friend went through with that bitch and advise given at the time by vets. You will more than likely need a elect C-sect. PM me if you need more info. Edited September 29, 2011 by Mystiqview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kustali Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 I hope it all goes well with the litter, glad you have her on the supps now, it should all go well from now on xx. You never know, it might be that you have to supplement for this pregnancy, but if you decide to breed your girl again you might not have to supp her next time. It's worth the risk i think, you have to weigh it all up, if she's a good quality bitch then i don't see the problem, plenty of other worse things out there. Best of luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Just an update - my girl is now at 54 days and going well - she had a progesterone test yesterday and all was good - will be talking on the phone to the vet every day from Monday - and he was happy with her yesterday. Still having her tablet each morning. I am still not allowing myself to get excited but am remaining very hopeful for this litter - she is happy and eating and its hard not to get a little clucky when she is laying on my lap and I can feel the little ones moving inside. I am prepared that the delivery will be a c section and hoping this all goes well but I feel she is in excellent hands and all to do now is keep her close and watch her - at present 17 October sounds like the day for the delivery but will be taking her back to vet nearer to this time to be sure - my vet is very nice and has told me he will be on call any time till the pups are safely delivered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilaryo Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Just an update - my girl is now at 54 days and going well - she had a progesterone test yesterday and all was good - will be talking on the phone to the vet every day from Monday - and he was happy with her yesterday. Still having her tablet each morning. I am still not allowing myself to get excited but am remaining very hopeful for this litter - she is happy and eating and its hard not to get a little clucky when she is laying on my lap and I can feel the little ones moving inside. I am prepared that the delivery will be a c section and hoping this all goes well but I feel she is in excellent hands and all to do now is keep her close and watch her - at present 17 October sounds like the day for the delivery but will be taking her back to vet nearer to this time to be sure - my vet is very nice and has told me he will be on call any time till the pups are safely delivered. I hope all goes well mini girl! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kustali Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Great to hear she travelling along well. Curious to know how long will she be on the tablets for? Is the 17th 63 days from ovulation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted October 8, 2011 Author Share Posted October 8, 2011 Great to hear she travelling along well. Curious to know how long will she be on the tablets for? Is the 17th 63 days from ovulation? Not really sure as I let her have natural matings over 4 days - the last one day 4 was not planned - but I am taking the day count from the first day of mating - my other girls came from 58 to 60 days from the first mating. The vet will be seeing her again next week. The 17th is 63 days from the first mating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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