raineth Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 friends of mine have two bitches (one older bitch, one younger). These bitches have had three fights, each increasing in intensity. They don't want to separate them. Their owners are currently working (and therefore living) in different places, and the Man has the two bitches and the Lady has taken up two female foster puppies. She has fallen inlove with both of them. She wanted to keep both of them but I have managed to convince her not to. However she has decided to keep one of them. These people are good friends and their dogs are very important to them. I am very fond of their dogs too, and I am stressed out with this situation as I think its going to lead to disaster I have told them I think the younger dog may kill their older dog; I have told them that the puppy could be hurt or killed if (when) a fight breaks out. They have consulted a behvaiourist who told them not to keep either puppy, and that they need to work on their leadership. But they are not doing these things. So I guess at this point I'm wondering whether I should just shut up about it because ultimately it is none of my business... or is there anything else I could say to them to make them realise that adding a puppy at this point could make things much worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 If they wont' listen to a professional Raineth, my guess is you are wasting your breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 If they wont' listen to a professional Raineth, my guess is you are wasting your breath. Yep and they probably won't until one of them ends up seriously injured or dead. Or you could point them in the direction of DOL and revive one of the many threads about what bitches do to one another, when they will no longer tolerate each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheebs Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 (edited) We were really fortunate to be able to run our three bitches together with very little problems (there was aggression over food which was easily managed with crating). Our 11-year-old weim passed from brain cancer leaving the 18mth-Great dane and 3yo Boxer X remaining. The Weim and Boxer never saw eye-to-eye but were happy enough to "co-exist". We recently took on a female foster Weimaraner and now in hindsight realise just how lucky we were before. There have been a few spats between the Boxer and the recent Weimaraner addition... and I've now had to keep them separated for the safety of all involved. The weimaraner came away with a nick to her ear (despite being supervised at the time and with her doing absolutely nothing that I could see to bring about this aggressive behaviour in my Boxer), but I can definitely see this behaviour escalating in my Boxer bitch so I am simply not going to risk it. Raineth, I guess if the threat of injury (or worse, death!) isn't enough to dissuade these people then you may as well be shouting at a brick wall. ETA: I'd be taking an approach to appeal to their sense of selfishness. Ie: "Do you really want the ongoing stress of monitoring and supervising three bitches forever? Sounds like such hard work!" yadda, yadda, yadda... Edited September 26, 2011 by Pheebs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 We had always had girls together and had no problems, but earlier this year we went through hell when our great dane decided she wasnt going to tolerate our greyhound Pia anymore. She seriously attacked her twice and I am fairly certain Pia would have been killed if my husband hadnt been there to stop it. It was awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 My guess is no matter what you tell them, they will do what they want to with regards to running 3 bitches together... then when the inevitable happens, they will come running to you for sympathy/help... *sigh* I have 3 bitches here myself - two of them have had vicious spats in the past, and are no longer allowed to run together. The 3rd bitch gets on fine with both of the others and is not capable of challenging either of them due to mobility/stability issues - plus she is more on the submissive side rather than dominant. I also foster puppies for rescue because that is what all of my permanent girls prefer. It's a PITA to keep dogs separated and still give them equal one-on-one and exercise time - but the alternative is pts for one or both, as I know exactly what they are capable of if they get into a spat and the other dog doesn't back down. Rehoming is NOT an option under those circumstances, so I manage my dogs, and they are coping just fine with the "arrangement" now in place. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sallyandtex Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Hello, Just a dumb question By "bitch" is it standard that the dog is not de-sexed? Or do the dogs still have these problems even when neutered (so still called "bitch" on the Dol forum? Ta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 My girls are desexed... they are still bitches... *grin* T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marion 01 Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Raineth, you can advise people until you are blue in the face, but if they won't listen, they will have to find out the hard way, which will be at the dogs expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMaddy Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 If she's not taking notice of advice she paid for (assuming she did, if not probably why she won't listen to what the behaviourist told her), she won't listen to anyone else. Funny how people only value advice when they pay for it. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 (edited) Or you could point them in the direction of DOL and revive one of the many threads about what bitches do to one another, when they will no longer tolerate each other. This is what I'd do, those threads make it real in a way that saying it's a risk doesn't. And if she still doesn't listen, you're going to have to detach from it until mother nature gives them an education they can't ignore. Edited September 26, 2011 by SkySoaringMagpie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasha Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 I also depends on the temperaments of the individual dogs. You can't say that just because they have X number of bitches they WILL have fights. I have 4 adult bitches that can all run together. Admitedly my older grumpy kelpie will have the occassional spat over food with my younger kelpie (also food possessive) 99% of teh time they are fine. The only management thing i have to do is lock all food up and not get them too over the top over toys. I also have kept 2 more bitch pups out of a litter and they also are run with the adults at times. I only have one 5 month old dog pup and 7 females. At the end of the day you can only suggest they keep a look out for signs of trouble and fix it immediately. If it doesn't affect your life, give them the advice and walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogslife Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 I had three girls until recently with a fourth staying for extended times. We never had a days issue with the main three, they loved each other and were a joy to be together. Only death has separated them. The fourth had some issues that were mainly food related but we worked out those issues, and she loved her stays with her sisters. It can work but it will always depend on the dogs concerned. If they have conflict already and several fights it doesn't sound good. My comment to them would be to put themselves in the dogs shoes/paws. Would they want to live with others who hate them.....???? Its kinder to rehome to a great family. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 I also depends on the temperaments of the individual dogs. You can't say that just because they have X number of bitches they WILL have fights. I have 4 adult bitches that can all run together. Admitedly my older grumpy kelpie will have the occassional spat over food with my younger kelpie (also food possessive) 99% of teh time they are fine. The only management thing i have to do is lock all food up and not get them too over the top over toys. I also have kept 2 more bitch pups out of a litter and they also are run with the adults at times. I only have one 5 month old dog pup and 7 females. At the end of the day you can only suggest they keep a look out for signs of trouble and fix it immediately. If it doesn't affect your life, give them the advice and walk away. A lot depends on the breed as well. Kelpies and Border Collies are bred to be be biddable and work together. Sheep dogs that fight are of no use to anyone so in these breeds and several others that are bred to work in packs, running several bitches together is quite normal. You still get the occasional ones that clash and when that happens one needs to be rehomed because they never get over it. With may breeds though running bitches together is just not going to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 I also depends on the temperaments of the individual dogs. You can't say that just because they have X number of bitches they WILL have fights. The OP wasn't saying that tho', she said the two existing bitches had had three fights which were increasing in intensity. In that situation I see a real red flag and would not add more dogs, particularly not more bitches, to the household until it was sorted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye GSD Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 All my adult daughter's have had their own GSD's and we have all had bitches. Our previous bitches all socialised together and there was never a cross word between them. On passing of the older two, we bought new bitches at different times and we cannot run any of them together, even tho' the new puppiies were introduced at an early age. Once the puppy licence ran out it was all on. We have two 7 year olds (who got on famously with 2 previous bitches but now will not tolerate one another or the new members), a 2 year old (Skye)who retaliates when challenged and a 1 year old (Abbey) who has a submissive nature but still gets picked on by all. I believe it is a fight for the alpha position as our original two bitches were the matriachs and kept the others in line with their calm and gentle natures. However, you cannot force them to be friends so we manage the situations at all times and all bitches are separated unless on lead for walks. It is a total PITA but better to manage than have a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted September 26, 2011 Author Share Posted September 26, 2011 thanks for the replies everyone, very much appreciated hearing them and your experiences I think what I'll do is when she next brings up the topic mention some of the things in this thread and maybe send her a link to one of the other bitch-fighting threads. Then after that I'm just going to let it go, cross my fingers and hope for the best. Dogslife, I don't think either bitch would be able to be ethically rehomed as they have also attacked another dog before. its not that they are awful, uncaring people (far from it)... its just like they think something so awful couldn't really happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 print out one of the 'bitches fighting' threads and give them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 here's one of them http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/207994-bitches-fighting/page__p__4911055__hl__%2Bbitches+%2Bfighting__fromsearch__1#entry4911055 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted September 26, 2011 Author Share Posted September 26, 2011 thanks Pavlova, that's the one I was thinking of does anyone know if there is a way to make it more printer friendly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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