Titre Testing

[stormie]

But then another thing to consider, is that Distemper may be low because it's not as common in the environment anymore, so the dogs aren't encountering it to trigger the antibodies.

[Mason_Gibbs]

But then another thing to consider, is that Distemper may be low because it's not as common in the environment anymore, so the dogs aren't encountering it to trigger the antibodies.

That is what my vet said to me as Mason was also lowish on Distemper but he wasnt concerned enough to revac as it wasnt low enough to warrent it.

[OSoSwift]

It would cost me far more to titre than to vacc. It costs me more to go trienniel than to go yearly.

The mark up on foods in vet hospitals is very minimal and dry dog food was not a huge part of what we sold over the counter. We sold the food we genuinely thought was the best one and Aussie made (and yes my views have changed). There are no kickbacks and cash incentives to sell dog food through a vet hospital

[Staff'n'Toller]

The other important aspect is that 3 year core vaccination is the protocol recommended by the AVA.

It's all fine to say Vets are in it for the money, however if they are only titre testing, they may be considered to be going against AVA guidelines. People seem happy to sue for a lot less these days. Distemper and Hepatitis are rarely seen, sure, but if a client loses a dog to Parvo and the Vet was operating out of AVA guidelines - OMG - what a minefield that is yet untested in the courts.

Clients need to be very aware of what they are entering into. We have much the same uptake as Stormie has noted - very little. I titre my dogs, but I understand very clearly what I am doing, if you're a client and you don't have a science brain, it can be difficult to understand.

It's unfair to say Vets are uncaring about this. My boss can remember a time when there was no parvo vaccine, when he had scores of animals dying everyday and not enough room in the hospital to cater for it, he never ever wants to relive it. I'm not saying it's something that would ever happen these days, however you can't blanket statement things to do with vaccinating/not vaccinating.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Staff'n'Toller

[Inevitablue]

My comment about the food wasn't in regards to money, instead trying to highlight that a large number of vets don't do their own research on topics like vaccination and diet. Both aspects are heavily guided by the big companies. Not saying an opinion on either is wrong, but so many vets allow their clinic protocols to be steered by manufacturing companies.

I applaud vets/clinics who take a step back and do research.

[Staranais]

That's a very fair point. Some vets do not keep up to date with new developments in particular areas. I've met many that are a bit behind the times as regards vaccine protocol, for example. And I've met lots of others that would love to change to a less frequent adult vaccination protocol, but their terms of employment mean that they can't go against their clinic protocols (i.e., all the vets in the clinic are supposed to recommend the same protocol, and they haven't persuaded their colleagues to agree to a change yet).

However, I think people should also remember that just because a vet has come to a different conclusion than they have on a certain topic, doesn't necessarily make the vet uneducated. Asking the vet why they are recommending a certain measure will tell you more about how educated they are. Perhaps they are ignorant or not up-to-date. Or perhaps they've read some articles, or been to a seminar, that you haven't, and have come to a different conclusion. You'll never know until you ask. I've met vets that I really respect (and vets I don't) on both sides of the raw feeding debate, for example.

From my own point of view, I don't think I'll be automatically recommending a raw diet or titre testing to all of my clients when I go into practice - and I'd consider myself pretty cluey on both subjects.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Staranais

[Inevitablue]

Completely agree Staranais, I'm not pushing any agenda. I would just like to see more vets use the full range of available information to treat/ educate each dog/owner combination.

[aussielover]

But then another thing to consider, is that Distemper may be low because it's not as common in the environment anymore, so the dogs aren't encountering it to trigger the antibodies.

Interesting. I took that into consideration as well, however, in my area none of the vet clinics have seen parvo in years, so it is likely to also be at fairly low levels in the environment, yet her parvo titre was absoluely fine.

My dog's distemper titre was <1:5 which could mean NO immunity at all, so for safety I decided to re vaccinate. If it was =1:5 or =1:10 then I would consider not revaccinating as it would show there were at least some antibodies.

I will be interested to see my dog's titres next year when I get her retested.

Our clinic is very good about sticking to the 3 year AVA vaccination protocol.

We've had a few clients wanting titre testing, but I also think it isn't as popular with the general public as it appears to be here on DOL.

I also think some people get confused about which vaccines the 3 yearly protocol applies for. We generally send out yearly reminders for KC vaccinations and proheart (for the clients that choose this option).

We've had people confused and complaining about being sent reminders as they thought vaccinations were now every 3 years.

This is only for C3. Kennel Cough vaccinations still need to be done yearly.

[Guest Black Obsession]

I like Aussielover's idea about offering a Gold Standard to each client and letting them decide.

I don't think you need a science brain to Titre Test - that's what you're paying your vet for. Though, I think more information could be made available to clients to educate them about the pros and cons of vaccinating/not vaccinating. It's possible to do this without being scientific and using jargon. And the decision should be made equally between the vet and the client.

Sorry, Inevitablue. I can see now that I misinterpreted your first post, which led me to my knee jerk response about money

I guess I can't help feeling sceptical when my experience of most vets is that they are financially driven. However, after reading Staranais' post I can see now that I could have misunderstood them. I think a lot of vets aren't great at communicating/relating to people and so they come across as arrogant and uncaring. Some vets don't even look you in the eye when they're speaking to you.

I had an experience with a Dermatologist once who lectured to me with a whiteboard and marker for 5 minutes then promptly left the room. He had kept me waiting for 45 minutes and he charged $140 for the consultation alone.

And some vets have weird ideas about animal health. The same Dermatologist told me that it's okay to give drugs to animals because drugs are natural because they come from plants! How could this possibly be helpful to me in caring for my dog?

Edited September 26, 2011 by Black Obsession

[Staranais]

I think a lot of vets aren't great at communicating/relating to people and so they come across as arrogant and uncaring. Some vets don't even look you in the eye when they're speaking to you! I had an experience with a Dermatologist once who lectured to me with a whiteboard and marker for 5 minutes then promptly left the room. He had kept me waiting for 45 minutes and he charged $140 for the consultation alone.

They tell us that most complaints against vets to the vet board are misunderstandings that could have been avoided if vets were better communicators. So you are definitely not alone in your experience!

On the other hand, one of the very best surgeons I know is not a great communicator, but he's an excellent, excellent surgeon. I guess it's rare when a talented surgeon is also naturally a great communicator. But, I agree that lots of vets (and doctors!) could work on their communication skills.

I agree with your statement that's nice to offer gold standard to clients. Interestingly though, there was just a thread in general where some people were saying they hated being offered different options for spay surgeries, and just wanted one option. So, I guess some folks don't like it if you overcomplicate things, either. Hard to please everyone, I guess.

[Guest Black Obsession]

I'm not ashamed to say that I'm a complete control freak when it comes to my dogs...and so I would like to be given every available option

And I have a very qualified vet who is also a great communicator, and very down to earth and lovely

[Roar Kingdom]

The other important aspect is that 3 year core vaccination is the protocol recommended by the AVA.

The AVA policy does not dictate that 3 year core vaccines be used. The Policy is copied below:

Vaccination protocols should be determined within a veterinarian–client–patient relationship, based on attributes such as duration of immunity of available vaccines and an individual animal’s requirements.

Every animal should be immunised and each individual animal only as frequently as necessary.

Current scientific consensus recommends that adult cats and dogs should be vaccinated with core vaccines triennially where applicable.

Informed consent is important.

Core vaccines should be administered to all animals to protect them against severe, life-threatening diseases that have a global distribution.

[Roar Kingdom]

<edit>

We can only test for Distemper and Parvovirus antibodies; <edit>

Kind regards

Dr Renee

Holistic Vet

Are separate vaccs available for parvo and distemper though? My understanding (and I could well be wrong) is that only the combined vacc (C3?) is available (at least in this country), so if one of my dogs is ok for coverage of say parvo, but not distemper, I can't just vacc for distemper. Is that correct or not?

It is correct.

I had this dilemma, my dog was fine for parvo, but low for distemper. I ended up giving another C3 just to be sure. She was retested 6 weeks later and both parvo and distemper were fine.

* It may be possible, but very difficult to get a distemper only vaccine???

No it is not possible at this stage to get a single Distemper vaccine, however when analysing Distemper titres, there are more things to consider than just the titre result. For example, Distemper is considered to be eradicated in most areas of Australia, Distemper antibodies are less likely to be circulating in the system because as Stormie pointed out there is no natural challenge, also the immune response for Distemper is based more on cell-mediated immunity than circulating antibodies, so you could get a low titre but still have adequate memory cells in face of natural challenge to mount an immune response.

Re-vaccinating an adult dog who has adequate Parvovirus antibodies (given Parvovirus is more likely to be encountered here in Oz) IMO is very rarely warranted. This decision should be based on geographic & lifestyle risk factors for Distemper vs likelihood of ill effects of the vaccination in that particular individual. I usually only titre test adult dogs >2 years for Parvovirus, but offer the Distemper titre as well if the client wants this done.