Why Do People Feel That A Tug Game

[Vickie]

I was saying in the moments leading up to the reward, the dog looks the same regardless of what they are expecting to get, but at the moment of reward delivery they look different.

I thought this was really interesting, so I conducted an experiment this morning.

Subject: Trim, working Border Collie

Environment: in a paddock with sheep.

Behavior: recall off sheep

Seems like the theory works. I found her anticipation was the same each time and her response to the rewards presented varied.

Reward 1. gets to work sheep again.

Anticipation...staring intensely at sheep, quivering

Reward...did a nice steady cast & fetched the sheep

Reward 2. Tennis ball (one of her obsessions)

Anticipation...staring intensely at sheep, quivering

Reward...glanced at me like I was an idiot, and went back to staring intensely at sheep, quivering

Reward 3. Game of Tug

Anticipation...staring intensely at sheep, quivering

Reward...glanced at me like I was an idiot, bit me on the arm and went back to staring intensely at sheep, quivering

Reward 4. Food, fresh skinned rabbit

Anticipation...staring intensely at sheep, quivering

Reward...glanced at me like I was an idiot, bit me on the arm, grabbed the stupid rabbit and whacked me in the knees with it before tossing it aside in disgust and...you guessed it...went back to staring intensely at sheep, quivering

Edited September 27, 2011 by Vickie

[The Spotted Devil]

Must. Have. Video

Trim 4 : Vickie 0 :D

[ness]

Wonders if reward 4 had been fresh raw lamb rather than rabbit whether the outcome might have been different . Sorry couldn't resist.

[Kavik]

Trim is hillarious

[Tassie]

Vickie. Yes, the chance to work sheep is a whole nother thing - even for show bred dogs who are food obsessed like my Kirra. In a situation where she was working sheep - food didn't even come into the equation.

Video would be good - but I think Vickie's description was pretty near as good as video.

[The Spotted Devil]

Vickie. Yes, the chance to work sheep is a whole nother thing - even for show bred dogs who are food obsessed like my Kirra. In a situation where she was working sheep - food didn't even come into the equation.

Video would be good - but I think Vickie's description was pretty near as good as video.

Absolutely! I was just picturing Trim throwing dark, filthy glares at Vickie - "you call THAT a reward do you???" - I literally laughed out loud

I have had a similar response from Em when she retrieved her first birdie (after training on dummies). A look of disgust that clearly said "you can stick your cheese - just throw the damn bird woman!"

[pie]

Yes it sounds like one of my dogs the other day - but swap sheep for mouse Oh my gosh! If only I could use that as a reward at training ;)

[corvus]

Sounds like you only have one reward in a paddock, Vickie. ;)

[Jumabaar]

From what i have observed in my limited experience, dogs that play sports where they need to drive away from the handler (e.g. Flyball) seem to (generally speaking) do the away part faster and with more drive if they are working for a tuggie than a food reward. Food rewarded dogs certainly come back faster than they drive away (again generally). Perhaps it has to do with the energy and hype that goes into the tuggie reward? I can atest to how hyped some dogs get on the end of a tuggie (so can my other half when they nearly pull her arm out) and in a point and shoot sport I would think this would be a big help when you want the dog to run away from you? Of course horses for courses I have one dog that plays tuggie at home, plays with the other dogs but will always prefer food rewards and works very well for them. If I show her a tuggie in public (especially around other dogs) she could not give a damn about it. On the other hand we have one older dog that does not care what happens in the world around him if he has his tuggie!!

IMO the dog going down to the ball faster is not about tugging or food, it is about when the dog has learnt the behaviour has finished.

My kelpie can get down to the box in 2.0 seconds, in comps she comes back in 2.4 seconds, and doing warm ups in training she will come back in 5.0 seconds. This is because I trained her that the exercise was to go down and get the ball and that the recall is just an added bonus that you do to fill in time, instead f training her that flyball is about running down, grabbing the ball and coming back to me as the task. I know this isn't caused by the tug because I have never managed to get her to tug near flyball (first dog so forgive my faults)!

I have seen this with other dogs taught around the same time using the same methods as what I did wit my girl regardless of reward. Dogs trained using a different method have a much better recall.