ruthjones Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Okay, So patches is due any day now (Saturday by 63 days post mating) our paperwork is all in order (prefix still pending though) so I have a couple of last minute questions Is it normal for the bitch to still be so active? She is as hyper and playful as ever! She loves to guard the chickens, and if you let them up, herds them constantly (cocker spaniel) but she is still trying to jump up on chairs still, hasnt become sedate at all! Does a sire generally recognise/accept their own offspring? Patches will obviously be living inside for a while, but at some stage the pups will be going outside for play etc, do I need to remove our boy (their sire) from the area or will dogs instictively accept their own pups? Would it be wise to bring the sire inside with the pups for a while too? or is that a recipe for disaster? I'm worried that Patches is eating too many eggs, she likes to steal them from the chickens and eats them so quickly it is ridiculous, but it has only been the last couple of weeks that she has become obsessed with them, should I let her do it under the theory of at least she is eating and it isnt completely crap or should I be stricter with enforcing a limit? (we have 4 chickens so there is only 2-3 a day anyway) So yes, I know they are newbie questions that I should probably already know, but I just want to be sure. Thanks Ruth Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpoint GSP Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Hi Ruth, I had my first litter this year too and don't worry about being a newbie, we all have to start somewhere and the fact that you ask questions shows you care! I have GSPs so yes my bitch was active right up until the day she had her pups, in fact she kept up her walks (although there wasn't quite as much running and we didn't go as far - only because we wouldn't let her!) bounced everywhere then had massive upsidedown sleeps complete with snoring! I can't tell you about having the sire present as I don't have my own boys or about the chickens/eggs but i'm sure someone else here can. There are lots of very helpful more experienced breeders on here with lots of help and ideas. I found their advice invaluable when I had my babies who have only been gone a week now! Enjoy it while it lasts, some days it seems overwhelming and that first 24hrs is sleep deprived worrying hell BUT those 8 weeks fly so make sure you take plenty of photos (and put them up on here for us to see!) and enjoy them while they're there!! All too soon they will be off to their new homes and making their mark on the world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Bitches whelp 63 days from ovulation not 63 days post mating so don't assume that Saturday will be the day, the pups could come before or after. Yes it's normal for bitches to be active right up to whelping, but if they're very large and uncomfortable or the weather is hot they usually slow down a bit towards the end. No a sire doesn't instinctively recognise his own pups and may or may not accept them, it depends on the dog, some males are good with puppies and some don't want to know about them. Remember too that the pups are tiny and easily injured by a larger dog and your male could hurt one quite unintentionally. I certainly wouldn't allow him inside with the pups when they are very young because a) bitches need a quiet and peaceful environment in which to feed and care for their pups and b) she may see him as a threat and attack him. My bitches are always fiercely protective of their pups and won't allow any of the dogs they live with anywhere near them, especially during the first few weeks. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthjones Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Yep, I know it is 63 days post ov, however have been using mating dates as a rough guide (as we dont know exactly when she ovulated) Thanks for the info regarding sires not recognising the pups instinctively, it was one area that none of my reading ever actually spelt out. Don't get me wrong, the sire is beautiful, wonderful temperament, never would dream of hurting anyone, but I dont want to take unnecessary risks so I wont chance it. Poor girl is so big now, her tummy is so stretched and tight looking! I am making sure that I am handling her as frequently as I can, just to make sure she is as comfortable as possible if there is anything I need to do, I would hate her to panic! I've even been watching youtube videos of cocker spaniels giving birth, although my husband has to keep telling me I cant close my eyes during the yucky bits! (Sad I know, I keep going back to having my first and the midwife asking me if I wanted to feel her head during birth and apparently shaking my head no very quickly) but just trying to make sure that I know what is normal and can tell when I need to intervene and when to let nature take over. Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Bitches will also injure pups jumping in and out of the box , if they feel there is a threat. Best to keep the male and other dogs well away and give the bitch a chance to settle in and get on with the job. Give it a couple of weeks. It usually takes my girls two weeks or so before they will allow the others to investigate the box. They are usually happy for the rest of the house dogs, to sit on the lounge or look through the pen but that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrinaJ Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) My bitch was as normal as she is today when she whelped 14 puppies, still her crazy energetic self. I introduced Bandit (not the Sire) to the puppies when they were 3 weeks old. He came inside(on lead) and sniffed the whelping box and the puppies. I wanted him to know what was going on inside. He looked so sad without his best buddy Jett outside with him. At 5 weeks of age they were outside where he could see the m BUT unable to get in with them. At 6-7 weeks of age the puppies played in the backyard, supervised by me, with Bandit in the yard also (on long line). He was quite funny and didn't know what to make of these little land sharks trying to suckle on him. He was fantastic with them. At 8 weeks he was playing with them, again supervised by me, in the sandpit, playing with their toys, and even gently playing tug with them. He would hold the toy and let the puppy pull on the other end. I don't see a problem with introducing a dog to the puppies in a controlled situation. Good luck with the whelping of your bitch and I hope the puppies are all you hope from and more ETA, I can't help with the egg - my dogs and our chickens cannot be together, prey drive in my dogs is very high, so egg stealing doesn't happen. Edited September 21, 2011 by TrinaJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Oops I missed the egg eating part of your post. If she's eating 2/3 eggs a day, I think that's too many, I would limit her to 1 or 2 a week. Another reason not to allow your male out with the puppies is that they will automatically try to suck on his penis and most dogs (unlike some other species ) hate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrinaJ Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Another reason not to allow your male out with the puppies is that they will automatically try to suck on his penis and most dogs (unlike some other species ) hate it. Unlike other species..... Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthjones Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Okay, thanks, I'll keep him back and do introductions very gradually with intense supervision, I might keep the chicken run locked from her to stop the egg issue. The dogs have never tried to hurt the chickens, socks will chase them until they sit down, patches just loves rounding them up, must say at first i was concerned they would see dinner on legs, but they dont seem interested in that possibility (unlike my aunt's dog who caught one of her neighbours chickens that came over the fence and ate the whole thing!) I just wasnt sure about how much the dog would undertand, from what i am getting now though, i figure all he cares about is getting it in the hole lol. Is it best if I buy new toys for the puppies, I would hate to provoke a jealous attack over possession of toys? I am constantly amazed by how much she wants to eat lately! she has always loved her food but she would eat all day at the moment if she could! Are there any other specific supplements etc I should offer her? I know raspberry leaf tea has been mentioned but I was told that could make her go into premature labour? one web site said to keep them calm for 3 weeks before the birth, I would like to know how! I'm not planning on taking her for marathon walks or agility trials at the moment or anything, but if she was calm and sedate I would think something was wrong with her, she just has a busy personality i think! Lately she will let me lie her down on her side so I can check everything is ok and no suspicious discharges etc lol. and I dont know why she wants to live in the ensuite lately! she goes straight there as soon as she comes inside and does not want to come out, i guess the cozy whelping box in the spare room with blankets isnt acceptable to her! Thanks Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) I would encourage her to be in the area where her whelping box is, and not allow her access in the ensuite if that isn't where you want her to have her puppies. I would spend up to an hour in the whelping box with my bitch a couple of weeks before she was due. I used that time to make sure I had all my supplies and paperwork ready. does she always eat that number of eggs or has her desire to eat them increased since she has been in whelp? perhaps her body is telling her what she needs. What diet is she on currently? I gave Ari whole chicken frames and minced frames as a major part of her diet. Edited September 21, 2011 by SparkyTansy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrinaJ Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 She's nesting and the ensuite probably feels safe for her to have her babies. Yes get new toys specifically for the puppies. Jett is very possessive of her toys and when I gave the puppies their new toys she thought they were hers ESP the squeaky lion (which ended up being hers). Nice stuffed toys are good for them to snuggle with. Plastic bottles filled with rice or pasta are fun to play with and make cool noises. Squeaky toys are a must and if you have a radio turn it on so that the puppies get used to the different noises. I gave Jett goats milk, I didn't give her any additional supplements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileys mum Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) Hi Ruth, how exciting.... your first litter ...I've only had 2 litters, so I still classify myself as a newbie too. I was just wondering if you have a mentor or an experienced breeder that could assist you or be on stand by to call if you run into any diffuculties during the whelping? Having you vets number on hand is an absolute must too. My bitch had 2 text book whelpings with no problems at all, but it was still good to have piece of mind knowing that I had someone to call if there was problems. My bitch has had 2 very large litters, so she slowed right down at the end. I never fed her anything different, other than a couple of drinks of goats milk a day, & upping the quantity of her food. My bitch is also very easy going & didn't mind the whelping box being in the family room from day 1. I put a puppy pen around it for security, so the other dogs couldn't get to the pups. My boy (the sire ) was a funny one...while I know he didn't regognise the pups as his offspring, he was still very protective of them, & would give a little warning growl at the other dogs,(except for Brandy the pups mum of course) if they went anywhere near the pen. I would often catch him going up to the pen & having a quick look, like he was checking if every thing was alright ...& then he would just walk off. I made sure the other dogs where outside, when we let the pups out of the pen when they where still little, & when they got to about 6 weeks old, we let them have supervised play with the other dogs. We had no signs of agression to the pups from any of the dogs. I bought the puppies their own toys, & when they went to their new homes, they all got one to take home with them, so they had something familiar that had the smell of their litter mates on it. Good luck,I hope everything goes well for you, & remember to post up pics when the little ones are born. Nicole Edited September 21, 2011 by Baileys mum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileys mum Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Another reason not to allow your male out with the puppies is that they will automatically try to suck on his penis and most dogs (unlike some other species ) hate it. Unlike other species..... Well said! OMG...Coffee splurk moment!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthjones Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 In all honesty, I dont really mind where she has the puppy, except maybe my bed being off limits! I am wondering though if the ensuite fascination is because it is cooler in there than most of the rest of the house, perhaps she is feeling overly hot being big in QLD at the moment. She doesnt seem to actively dislike the whelping box, maybe she just doesn't want to be reminded of what is coming lol. She has always liked eggs, but they have been limited to one every 3 days previously, is it possible that it is just about her being hungry and she knows they are good to eat? Her diet is based on 1/3 pasta or rice, 1/3 mince (lean) 1/3 vegies about 1 1/2 cups of this/day with good quality dry food (from livestock store) about 1 cup/day this is split into two feeds (morning and night) lately we have been adding puppy food twice a day as well between her main meals (about 1 cup / meal) should I look at adding some chicken necks/frames to this as well? we normally add the egg to the dry food on the morning of the third day, however if our dumb chickens happen to lay in the yard, the only trace you will find is shell crumbs within seconds! I never thought they would try to eat the shell! Okay, I can easily buy more puppy toys, we only have oh, about $400 worth of dog toys at the moment lol. I will give her some goats milk and see if she is interested, I always thought milkl was a no-no though? does that only go for cow's milk? Socks has a toy stuffed puppy he carries everywhere with him (in fact he has several, in case it should be missing in action lol) so part of me is slightly concerned he might try to kidnap the real puppies as a toy! I had great fun explaining to my husband that when we move in November, we are taking a whole litter of puppies with us (they will be just over the 8 week mark) the darling didn't even flinch, much, lol, he even asked if they were flying or if they were coming in the car with us! I am thinking flying will be less stress, trying to imagine a car with a litter of cocker spaniels and the parents (if the puppies are driving, they would be too) and our 4 human kids and us and a weeks worth of clothes etc, hilarious thoughts though lol He didnt ever mind when I told him how much it was going to cost to microchip and vaccinate the tribe lol. I just hope she doesnt have too large a litter is all, a bit scared though, she was from a pretty substantial litter! is that an inherited trait? Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Ruthjones, we definitely need photos of baby Cockers once they arrive. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 cut out the pasta/rice. it's not needed. A bit of fat is actually a good thing, so I wouldn't worry about lean mince. She will lose a lot of condition once the puppies come, also, so keep that in mind with what you feed. a lot of breeders that feed kibble usually substitute the normal kibble for puppy kibble. I added chicken mince/frames because I wanted her to have a natural source of calcium her body could absorb if required. Dogs eating the entire egg is better for them than eating part of it. Out of curiosity, if the puppies are just over 8 weeks when you are moving, would it not be easier to send them off to their new homes once they hit 8 weeks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthjones Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Well it probably would be easier to let them go before we move, but they will literally be just 8 weeks, plus I'm not sure if there is much chance of selling them in Ipswich/Brisbane area as there are a fair few breeders around here. Besides, I may be trying to keep them a little longer for cuteness factor lol Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allerzeit Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Heh - believe me, by 8 weeks the cuteness factor is wearing off! Our lot are 8 weeks today, and we are totally exhausted and ready to get our lives back (and ready to be able to start bonding with the girl we are keeping). Good luck with your litter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileys mum Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Heh - believe me, by 8 weeks the cuteness factor is wearing off! Our lot are 8 weeks today, and we are totally exhausted and ready to get our lives back (and ready to be able to start bonding with the girl we are keeping). Good luck with your litter! I was just going to post the same thing Allerzeit ...By the time they are 8 weeks old, as sad as it is to say good by to the little buggers, I was absolutely exhausted & so over cleaning up the poo & wee, that I was kind of relieved to say goodbye to some of them. We also couldn't wait till it was only Jasper left (the little boy we kept from out first litter) so we could give him proper attention & bond with him. It's also really lovely to get updates & photos from puppy owners. So it would probably be advisable to try & find homes for some of the puppies before you move Ruth. Are you planning on keeping any of the pups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthjones Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 ideally I would love to keep one, but it would need to obviously be excellent as far as conformation and as far as what personality can be picked up on, which is of course entirely possible, however since they havent been born yet, a bit hard to pick hehe not sure if I would go for a girl or boy, I guess I have to see exactly what she ends up having! I am worried I won't want any of them to go though, thinking I will be more attached to these than the birds I used to breed! Luckily my girl's breeder is being excellent help, unfortunately, she lives in another state to me! Just not sure if they will sell, seems to be a lot of supply in the breed atm, would be ironic if I ended up not being able to sell any! Although the lady at Dogs Qld did advise to be careful because it will be just before Xmas! Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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