Too Submissive?

[JustUs]

Hi,

I haven't been around the forums for a while but this place was a wealth of knowledge when we decided to add a dog to our family and now I am in need of advice please

Long story short is after lots of consideration we got our SBT just over 2 yrs ago, with all the info gleaned from this site he is just about perfect for our family....perfect temperament, knows his place in the pack, great bite inhibition and good manners when out BUT twice now I have been bailed up with him by dominant stray dogs and I am wondering if maybe he is too submissive and that makes the situation worse?

Yesterday it was two stray's that we had the problem with and they were really dominant, not at all scared or phased by me, and Dex did the submissive thing but they just wouldnt let up. In the end my daughter backed away and one of the dogs sort of followed her and it still didnt raise any sort of reaction from him.

I guess in a rambly way I am asking if he is *normal* and for any advice, even if it is just how to deal with freaking strays as I am way too nervous to take him for our walks today.

Thanks for any advice at all

[corvus]

Totally normal and IMO thoroughly appropriate. If he thinks they are going to wallop him, he's only going to make it worse if he stands up straight and looks them in the eye. He is saying "I don't want any trouble", not "I am a weak doormat". IME it can defuse some very tense situations.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I've got a grovelly dog and it's saved many a tense situation. As she's grown up, she's become slightly more assertive, ie if she grovels and the other dog is still rude eg jumps on her, she will stand up and tell it off. Last time it was a rottweiler adolescent ie bigger than her but not full grown and it backed off at full speed. Phew. I'd much rather have a grovelly dog than a fighter.

If you back off from a rude dog, they will take that as an invitation to step up. But you can diffuse a situation "I'm not a threat and not worth bothering with" by making your own calming signals ie don't make direct eye contact with the dogs, turn your head away slightly and watch them from sideways - look at their paws or tail or mouth, not eyes and lick your lips or yawn. Ie calming signals. Your dog is already doing the right thing by them. And if they act the least bit friendly, I usually say "good dog" in a bright chirpy voice, totally unravells most of them, eg they get warm fuzzy feelings instead of fight feelings. Note: wagging tail is an excitement thing not a friendly thing. Backing up, turning head away and polite bum sniffing greetings without teeth are good dog things.

And I would report stray threatening dogs to council, with photos if you can get them, and with rego details or home address if you can get them. I've heard a lot of scary looking dogs are being dumped in Victoria at the moment because owners do not want to pay to have them PTS and don't want the risk of being held responsible for any damage the dog might do.

[WreckitWhippet]

Thank your lucky stars that he is that way. Although if pushed he may well react. He will almost certainly react if such situations keep happening to him and when he does, it's not going to be pretty.

[corvus]

I'd reward the hell out of it if I were you. I did with Erik. Still gotta watch him, but it's really nice when he 'shouts' submissive signals, the dog leaves him alone, and he looks to me all like "I told him to please go away. Can I have a treat?" Hell yes! He was a bit soft on the signals to begin with and got ignored a few times. Now he does big, obvious signals. He still gets ignored sometimes, but usually it's obvious enough for me to notice as well even when I'm chatting to someone, and I can get in there and get him away before he takes the next step.

[Greytmate]

You have a good dog that doesn't want trouble.

However the stray dogs do, so if it happens again, get in between your dog and the strays and try to frighten the stray dogs off with your fiercest body language and stomping and some deep growls.

I would avoid that area too, and inform council. These dogs are looking for trouble. You need to be confident to deal best with these situations, and even then things can go bad.

[JustUs]

Thanks so much for the reassurance guys.

Do you think that he knows in this type of instance that the other dogs are a danger? Because he goes straight into submission rather than just greeting the dogs, normally if we are just walking past an unrestrained dog he will just ignore it or say hi or if they rush up he just waits while I send the other dog away.

I also wonder if I am going to make the situation worse by trying to get the other dog away.

It is funny you say that Mrs Rusty Bucket as neither of these dogs had collars on, but one was a lab and the other a brown heeler type dog so I wouldnt have thought the owners would have been worried about the new laws.

One other question as I googled but cant find the answer.....hubby and I were wondering last night if it is also because we are his pack leaders that his expection is that we will take care of the other dogs for him?

Guess I will start walking with a weapon, dont know that I would want to use it but I would if I had to as the last thing I want is a DA SBT especially in Vic right about now!

[Greytmate]

Thanks so much for the reassurance guys.

Do you think that he knows in this type of instance that the other dogs are a danger? Because he goes straight into submission rather than just greeting the dogs, normally if we are just walking past an unrestrained dog he will just ignore it or say hi or if they rush up he just waits while I send the other dog away.

He knows. Dogs have a very rich non-verbal communication.

I also wonder if I am going to make the situation worse by trying to get the other dog away.

it depends on what you do, but getting the other dog away is good. But you do have to be careful not to act in a way that inflames the situation. Don't run or squeal or be afraid. Be confident, stand your ground and use a deep voice.

One other question as I googled but cant find the answer.....hubby and I were wondering last night if it is also because we are his pack leaders that his expection is that we will take care of the other dogs for him?

Possibly. It is what you want him to think.

Guess I will start walking with a weapon, dont know that I would want to use it but I would if I had to as the last thing I want is a DA SBT especially in Vic right about now!

Big strong black umbrella with an instant open button. Ideal for using as a stick or a shield on the majority of dogs that will approach you in the street.

Hopefully you will never cross paths with a dog that it won't deter.

[Maxiewolf]

I think being the one with the submissive dog is better, If he where to "stand his ground" its much more likely to lead to an altercation. I'm very happy that Brutus is submissive for his size. He gets down on his belly and crawls to smaller dogs..

[JustUs]

Thank you again Greymate for answering those questions.

I am a novice with the whole dog thing but very proud of the dog Dex has become so it is really good to know that he is doing the right things and that I haven't caused him to be a sook lol.

Also good to know that I am doing the right things, like using a firm voice and standing inbetween them when possible.

It is just sad that so many people dont do the right thing and then we all have to suffer

[JustUs]

Maxiewolf, Brutus sounds gorgeous

[Maxiewolf]

Maxiewolf, Brutus sounds gorgeous

He is a doofy sook. (dont let that fool you he still pulls like a freight train.) I wish I had had my camera when he was crawling along the ground to say hello to two mini dachshunds (same colour as him) on the beach. It was hilarious.

But yep... I Had Dachshunds for 20 Years.... and Ill take my big submissive sook over little tenacious dachies with 10 foot tall and invincible syndrome anyday!