sandgrubber Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Sandgrubber: People keep saying how you can make any dog aggressive, in certain circumstances you can, but the type of active preditory aggression that the dog killing the little girl displayed, you can't make the average dog do that, perhaps a high drive working dog trained extensively and set upon a child by command, but these dogs are not trained, they are nasty dogs who want to get everyone, we have all seen this type of dog in various breeds, the one's you hope the owner doesn't drop the leash as the dog lunges and snarls at everything? Interestingly the report of this shocking incident claimed the owner just stood there watching the dog attack, he was probably scared of the dog and knew it was a fruitloop, my God, if one of mine attacked a child I would throw my entire body over the dog without even thinking of consequence not stand there like a stunned mullet, I can't believe that? I haven't seen a photo of the dog who killed Ayen Chol and have heard very little about its background. I don't know why this information hasn't been made public. At times he (the dog) has been described as a pit bull x mastiff, in which case there is a good chance he wouldn't have been outlawed by the Victorian standard because the pit bull x mastiff types are often bigger than pits, have hanging skin, and un-pit bull type ears. I've read the same stories as you and think it quite possible that the owner encouraged the behaviour that lead to Ayen Chol's death. I've watched people encourage their dogs to show aggression to dark skinned people. I think doing so should be a criminal offense. I never said you can make any dog aggressive. The slightest sign of aggression will get a dog removed from the gene pool in some breeds . . . at least with a good breeder. You'd have to work very hard to turn a guide dog puppy into a schutz dog . . . and if you succeeded it would probably be via teaching the dog that biting the man in the padded suit is a game. There are high drive dogs with low bite thresholds who are bred and raised to go for blood . . . the traits that make a dog dangerous are to some degree hereditary. There is a good market for macho dogs (internationally) among people who fancy themselves big game hunters, and among dog fighters. Some lines of pit bull are much fancied by these groups, because the pit tends to be a tough, tenacious, fearless dog. Some people are deliberately crossing pits from high drive lines with large/giant breeds to get bigger, badder dogs. I would be all for a law written to focus on this type of person and their dogs, though I would prefer to see good policing and very heavy fines, including manslaughter charges when a dog kills. Any such law needs to respect the rural population, who may need big dogs for stock guarding or hunting feral pigs and / or dogs. The existence of high drive and low bite threshold in SOME dogs from a certain breed does not make the entire breed dangerous. What happens if the next killing is done by some cross that doesn't include or look like an APBT . . . say, for example, an ACD x bulldog (both tough, fearless breeds). Do we expand the ban to include all ACD's and all bulldogs? Who's next? I live in a California town where the majority of the people are Hispanic, and the most common dog types are pit bulls and chihuahuas (I say type, cause few dogs are on any sort of pedigree register). The vast majority of the pitties are good family dogs . . . no more dangerous than the average Staffie. Breed is not the problem. Breeding dogs to be weapons is, especially in urban and suburban settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosmum Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I just want to state again,this rally is not about BSL. Its about dogs in the community. The issues are responsible and ethical dog ownership to ensure dogs do have a continuing place in the community. BSL is going to come up a lot because its what WE fear most.At least those of us who can see where this attitude leads us and the affects it is already having on far too many innocent dogs and their families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 zara, yes these attacks will continue to occur and some of them may be by Pitbull type dogs. Why? Because the morons who own these dogs don't register them or train them, they are kept hidden until they one day escape. How long has BSL been around in Victoria? The rules have been in place for what 1-2 years and the girl was still killed. The dog that killed her was not registered so council had no idea it existed. Just like the thousands of other underground restricted breed dogs. Banning things does not work. Drugs are illegal, speeding is illegal, etc. Does that stop people being killed? Nup. The solution is not to ban these breeds but to instead ensure that they are owned responsibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allerzeit Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Another bump plus contact info. There are rallies in different places . . . all on same date. Time Saturday, October 22 · 11:00am - 2:00pm Location Please see Info for your states / locations VIC- http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=125666524199579 ... Shepparton VIC - http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=152592708165545 NSW - http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=292379974109432&view=wall¬if_t=event_wall QLD - TBA TAS - Parliment House SA - http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=212241712171640 WA - http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=252916974746646 Haven't finished reading the topic yet, so apologies if this is corrected further on - but the Tas one is in Adelaide??? Is there a Tasmanian rally, and is there a page for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) Haven't finished reading the topic yet, so apologies if this is corrected further on - but the Tas one is in Adelaide??? Is there a Tasmanian rally, and is there a page for it? Sorry, I cut and pasted this from the Facebook page cause it frustrates me when people post events and don't provide time and place. The paste didn't exactly work Should read: TAS - Parliament House . . . with no link, then SA on the next line. The main Facebook link is at: http://www.facebook....275080639183977 QLD is still listed as TBA and TAS still listed as Parliament House with no link. Edited October 2, 2011 by sandgrubber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Haven't finished reading the topic yet, so apologies if this is corrected further on - but the Tas one is in Adelaide??? Is there a Tasmanian rally, and is there a page for it? Sorry, I cut and pasted this from the Facebook page cause it frustrates me when people post events and don't provide time and place. The paste didn't exactly work Should read: TAS - Parliament House . . . with no link, then SA on the next line. The main Facebook link is at: http://www.facebook....275080639183977 QLD is still listed as TBA and TAS still listed as Parliament House with no link. Sandgrubber, I posted the link to the Australian wide page in the first post and made the comment that people should go to that link to find their individual rally. Thank you for posting the text from that link though. From what I understand, no one has stepped up to take carriage of the TAS event which is a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) I ask you this Erny: Well, ok ..... although you haven't answered my question to you. Is it correct for me to say it's a fact that if the recent surge of attacks committed by Pitbull type dogs had fallen victim to a BSL, that those dogs including the culprit who took the little girl's life couldn't have done the deed if they didn't exist? If something doesn't exist then it can't do overt physical damage - that certainly stands to reason and I would suggest almost mocks your question. By your question, are you suggesting that we get rid of all dogs? Ummmm .... and anything else in the world that takes a person's life? Is it also a fact if the owners of these offending dogs had dogs of a different breed and type, that it's impossible to prove an attack would have still occurred with the same outcome? Wasn't this questioned answered/given to you earlier? Regardless, are you asking or asserting the answer to this? Genuine question. But turn it around .... how do YOU think it would be possible to "prove" it when replacing it with a completely different individual sentient being? What are the thoughts of the owner of the dog? Why did the owner select the dog that he did? What if the laws focussed on education instead of "breed" .... would the owner know more than he did and thwart the horror that ensued? How can anyone possibly answer such a question as yours without this additional information? Crystal ball, much? Now ..... would you please link to documented scientific facts that prove BSL has been successful .... anywhere? WHERE have bite stats dropped as a result of the introduction of BSL? It's the STATISTICS you need to refer to Zara, not questions that lead to nowhere. That's just a waste of time. Do you have any links to share that supports the points you are endeavouring to have people attest to in favour of your thoughts and opinion? Edited October 2, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) Personally, I don't think this rates with what the family of the little girl killed by one have suffered, although I agree it is a sad state of affairs all round but primarily they are trying to save human lives and serious maulings from those type of dogs and given that they can't control the people who own them, the only other option to satisfy community outcry is get rid of that type of dog unfortunately. This is where thinking of "breed" is causing a mind-blocker to enlightenment. This thread and discussion really isn't about breeds, Zara. But again, perhaps if you go looking back at statistics. Chi's that killed a baby? Kill all Chi's too? If people had EDUCATION it would prove more productive than BSL. And remember - what we have now is about a description. YOU assume it ONLY relates to the dogs of breeds that YOU have in mind. You are assuming. A lot. ETA: Zara - it's not that you ask a silly or bad question, because your question will reflect the same of much of the general public who are led to believe that a majority of injuries are caused by the same dog breeds as you think. It's just that what it seems that you see as the answer is too shallow compared to the reality of the real answer. Point being, BSL is NOT the answer. That is what is proven, and was proven by so many other Countries before the Government of our Country adopted the regime. It was doomed for failure to begin with. We all knew that. Statistics backed our opinions. Our opinions were not baseless. The Government's bloody-mindedness and insistance on a belief in its possible success was. And now worse, these new laws. The only guarantee in these is that it will emotionally kill many dog-owning people along with many innocent dogs. Edited October 2, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Sandgrubber, I posted the link to the Australian wide page in the first post and made the comment that people should go to that link to find their individual rally. Thank you for posting the text from that link though. From what I understand, no one has stepped up to take carriage of the TAS event which is a shame. Yes, you did. But it doesn't hurt to repeat the time and place every time you mention an event. People don't remember where, in six pages of a thread, they saw something, and Search can be tedious. Also, a lot of people don't do Facebook, or try to avoid it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumosmum Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 A new thread has been started dedicated to the Melbourne Rally. Melbourne people, please join in and attend the rally. This cause is for all dogs. More updates will be added to the Melbourne Rally thread as speakers and the days program are confirmed. Thanks to all that are attending, lets make this a positive event, and hopefully enlighten the public, and show our Victorian Government that there is a way of making our community safe, and still have the wonderful experience of sharing our lives with our dogs. :D We need to all unite on this issue, and show our numbers and strength. DOL Thread for Melbourne Rally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 Brilliant, thanks for adding that Sumosmum! We've been conversing almost daily with Brad and Melbourne is also going to be a really inspiring day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted October 11, 2011 Author Share Posted October 11, 2011 The amazing Dju has completed our website and its now up and running! We can't thank her enough for her time and talents. Check it out at www.communityk9.com.au Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 BIG BUMP The rally is this Saturday, please help in getting the word out, what we need on this day is NUMBERS and we need everyone's help in getting them. The flyer is here http://communityk9.com.au/2011/10/lets-get-the-word-out/#more-116 Please assist us in distributing it around Sydney or even just posting it around facebook. Our confirmed speakers are: Tim Vasudeva - CEO of Animal Welfare League NSW, Glenn Cooke - Respected trainer and behaviourist, and educator for the NDTF, Caroline Perrin - Veterinary Behaviourist with Sydney Animal Behaviourist Services and Kaye Browne - Regular guest on the 2GB 'Pet Talk' program. Come on guys, we really need to see you there. This is not the time for apathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Good luck, Melz. There's a lot of work goes into promoting good causes and this is certainly one of them where much time has been spent and where people have sacrificed monetary income for the sake of donating their time . We here in Victoria wish you success for your rally. Good on you Sydney-siders for standing up and being counted, for supporting the Rally and the cause that it represents. And thank you. Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Thanks Erny God I'm exhausted but it's worth it. Also have now confirmed Vicki Etherington, dog trainer for over 40 years, Board member of DogsNSW for 15 years (and recently re-elected for another three), and government approved Temperament assessor for restricted breed crosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rep628 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Bump, bumpy, bumpbump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronda Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 bump Why isnt this on the first page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 Thanks for bumping Ronda!!! Come on guys - if you're coming lets hear it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 We'll be there! But you knew that anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickasyoucan Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 We'll be there! But you knew that anyway Me too with a bull breed owning friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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