Dogs In The Community

[A-B-C]

The Australia wide rallies are a great idea, we have to remain focussed on the bsl issues and not get drawn into infighting between different factions, the only agenda is saving innocent dogs from a barbaric legislation and educating the public and media about unfair prejudice about breed bans that have been proven to be ineffective.

I look forward to attending Adelaides rally and have been encouraging people to come and show their support

[melzawelza]

Hi all,

Final edit on the mission statement after conversing with Brad who is running the Melbourne event. We're very happy with it now and it won't be edited further. Next step is confirming speakers (we are waiting to hear back at the moment), setting up a webpage that can be accessible for people that don't have facebook, and hopefully getting this in the media as much as possible.

Dogs in the Community – a rally against BSL and for improved Companion Animal Practices in Australia.

Recent media attention regarding canine aggression and dog bite incidents in the community has once again brought issues such as Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) and companion animal management practices to the forefront. A rally addressing these issues and the continuing failure of government to adequately address community safety and/or canine welfare is being held at Belmore Park (opposite Central Station), Sydney on October 22, 12- 3pm.

Who is this rally for?

Anyone, not just dog owners, who is interested in the issues regarding dogs in the community. In particular, matters of:

• Community Safety - The current measures taken by government categorically fail to make the community safer, continuing to put the general public at risk, despite proven solutions being available.

• Breed Specific Legislation - All available scientific literature proves BSL ineffective, and academics and Subject Matter Experts (SME’s) universally acknowledge that BSL does not make communities safer from dog bite incidents.

• Animal Welfare - World class, science-driven animal management strategies are in use in many areas of the world. These areas enjoy not only extremely low incidences of dog bites, but animal destruction rates that are considered “No Kill” (>10%).

• Social Progress – Policies such as BSL are 25 years behind other countries in terms of providing a solution that most advantages the community.

• Responsible Guardianship - How do we encourage and ensure responsible dog guardianship?

• Tax Payers - Citizens who want their taxes spent efficiently and effectively, in the best interests of their communities, ought to be alarmed at the current state of affairs. Proven self-funded models are available to make the public safer while simultaneously improving animal welfare.

Our keynote speakers will address these topics in detail from various perspectives.

Can I bring my dog to the rally?

Dogs who serve the community, such as assistance dogs and police dogs, undergo extensive training in order to be behaviourally reliable in crowded situations. A rally is an unfamiliar, potentially challenging/stressful environment for many dogs, which could lead to unexpected behaviours. Therefore, whilst we all love our dogs and would like them to attend, ONLY dogs that have been invited by the organisers prior to the event are to attend. These dogs will act as representatives of all dogs in the community.

Your support of, and compliance with, this decision is sincerely appreciated by all who will attend the rally.

This is a Peaceful Rally!

It is important that the majority of Australians are given the opportunity to identify with our messages as non-threatening and in the best interests of Australian society. This rally is based on peaceful protest and intelligent debate. It is an alcohol-free event and the organisers ask all participants to refrain from disruptive behaviour, including abusive language.

We understand why some owners of particular breeds/types of dogs that are being targeted by the media feel frustration and anger, however, we also understand that the general public – who have been fed a diet of misinformation, media hysteria and political rhetoric – cannot be expected to join us in a call for change unless we engage with them in a positive and productive fashion.

Banners and Signs are encouraged, however the language and phrases used must be chosen carefully (spelling is important!). Slogans such as “Ban Stupid People, Not Dogs” have the potential to create division rather than cooperation. Slogans along the lines of those in the list below are welcome:

“Consult the Experts”

“Deed Not Breed”

“Breed Specific Legislation - Science Disagrees”

“Breeds Don’t Make Bad Dogs, People Make Bad Dogs”

“Education Not Discrimination”

“Breed Specific Policy Fails the Public”

“BSL = Epic Fail”

“Honour Ayen’s Memory – Protection Through Good Policy”

“Media Driven Policy = Failure”

“Science + Education = Public Safety”

“Scientists Agree: Abolish Poor Policy”

“Our Kids Deserve Better”

“End BSL, Save Human Lives”

“Science + Research = No BSL”

How can you get involved?

As well as attending on the day, if you wish to donate time or resources to the rally, please email us briefly, outlining how you wish to contribute. Please include in the subject line of your email: your state, followed by ‘HELP AVAILABLE’ and your name, e.g. “NSW, HELP AVAILABLE John Jones”

Please send email to: [email protected]

[m-j]

Thanks for your input guys, it is really valued and I'd appreciate input from anyone else reading too.

We are also certainly leaning towards there being no dogs bar a select few that are safe and well trained for crowds to be our doggy ambassadors. We will be meeting up tomorrow to discuss pros and cons and make a decision.

I agree, just as humans can react totally out of character in strange and daunting situations, so may dogs.

[moosmum]

I hope this event gets the coverage and suport it deserves and love that its aimed at dogs in the community rather thsn BSL out right...getting to the real roots of the problems we are facing.

A story I recently heard illustrates so well that this isn't just about BSL as it stands now,and that no dogs are safe,anywhere.

A local coucills rules stated that a new pup,as a "large breed "being registered must wear a muzzle in public.A rule acepted by the owners.This dog was smaller than a kelpie mature,selected specificaly for her good nature.She went on hollidays with her family,slept on the bed (under the blankets)She was a clown.Popular with the kids at the park for playing with them on the slippery dip.Dogs trying to dominate her would have her running in circles around them,keeping just out of reach asking to play instead.Friendly and not suspicious of anyone unless there was a GENUINE threat.Then she would defend those close to her.

A trip to the dog park with Mum and her SWF saw another SWF annoying this dog,who was muzzled.The off lead SWF then turned its attention to the other SWF on lead and attacked it."Monkey" as I will call her then snaped and managed to get the muzzle off and grabbed the SWF.Owner imediately grabbed Monkey and opened her jaws releasing the SWF but got her hand bitten in the process(Owner said not a bite as such,jaws closed breifly on hand as SWF released).Thought nothing of it,a disaster averted and no harm done.

A complaint was made to councill by the owner of the SWF and Monkey was taken and PT on the grounds that a person was bitten..Owners tried to fight it but unfortunatly did not know where to turn and lost.

So much wrong with this story its hard to know where to start but the bottom line is that a highly intelligent,good natured little dog who was the light of her young owners life was killed needlessly just before her 3rd birthday.She was NOT a dangerous dog.

This is in N.S.W. This dog was not a bull breed.

We need better education and plans that are effective now.

Edited September 30, 2011 by moosmum

[moosmum]

Just want to bump this up.This concerns every one who has a dog.Please support!!

[sandgrubber]

Another bump plus contact info. There are rallies in different places . . . all on same date.

Time Saturday, October 22 · 11:00am - 2:00pm

Location Please see Info for your states / locations

VIC- http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=125666524199579 ...

Shepparton VIC - http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=152592708165545

NSW - http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=292379974109432&view=wall¬if_t=event_wall

QLD - TBA

TAS - Parliment House SA - http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=212241712171640

WA - http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=252916974746646

[juice]

if you don't have facebook ,how do you access the nsw details?

[melzawelza]

Thanks for that Sandgrubber. There is also a link in the first post.

Hi juice, we are hoping to get a website up and running on Monday for people who don't have facebook, so that should help, but until then all the info on the NSW (Sydney) rally is in the same post.

We have had confirmation from RSPCA NSW and the AVA that they would like to be involved, and are now just waiting on finding out how much of an involvement that will be.

We've also contacted Clover Moore and we're waiting to hear back.

ETA: We really need everyone to help us out with promoting these rallies as it's so important that we get the numbers up. If anyone with facebook could share it would be much appreciated.

Edited October 1, 2011 by melzawelza

[Erny]

Personally, I think the rallies should take place on a day when the MP's are sitting. I can only speak for Victoria, but I imagine that, given where Parliament House is located, it would be a quiet day as far as foot-traffic is concerned, on a Saturday, not to mention that the Pollies won't be there. It could end up feeling as though we're talking to ourselves. I know it is hard for most getting the day off work if it's during the week, although I do think that is the best. But if we're going to do this on a weekend, what's the point of being at the deserted perimeters of town rather than where the public is?

For the Victorian one, isn't Brad Griggs organising it?

Edited October 1, 2011 by Erny

[melzawelza]

Hi Erny,

Yes Brad is organising the VIC rally, we have all been in discussions with each other a lot though as we are wanting to keep them as uniform as possible and all share ideas to get the best possible outcome.

Yes if it's outside Parliament house on a Saturday you're right, it won't be heard by the pollies and there won't be much foot traffic from the general public. I don't know Melbourne too well but maybe it's worth making it in a busier area? I can't imaging we'd be changing the date this close and we're already a bit worried about numbers so making it a weekday would possibly affect that even more.

Sydney is in a busy park where there should be lots of passers by who should hopefully stop to listen. Even if we wanted to do it in front of Parliament House there's no room, it's literally a footpath then a road.

[zara]

•

Breed Specific Legislation - All available scientific literature proves BSL ineffective, and academics and Subject Matter Experts (SME’s) universally acknowledge that BSL does not make communities safer from dog bite incidents.

Is there any scientific literature that proves people victims of attacks from restricted breeds would still have suffered attacks if BSL had previously eliminated the dogs who attacked them? In other words, if the owners of the dog who killed the little girl had a Rottweiler instead of the Pitbull X they had, would the Rottweiler have chased the kids into the house and killed the little girl in the same fashion?

[melzawelza]

Zara, we can never know if that particular specific scenario could have been different if a different breed of dog was owned.

What we do know, through plenty of scientific literature and examples from other countries that have enacted BSL, is that it does not significantly reduce the incidence of bite rate/attacks/fatalities in the community.

Not only does this literature exist, but there are also Animal Management models such as those used in Calgary, Canada which DO significantly reduce bite rate/attacks/fatalities. These models have no breed specific legislation.

All of these subjects will be discussed in detail at the rallies so if you are able to attend I strongly recommend it.

[Dju]

I really hope I will be able to contribute to the rally in Brisbane. It's very convenient to get to the Parliament House and I fully think that any dog lover should be participating in the rallies, the new legislation in Victoria is really a crying shame.

[Kirty]

I've been to a few rallies at Parliament House on weekends and it does get a fair bit of both vehicle and pedestrian traffic.

[melzawelza]

I've been to a few rallies at Parliament House on weekends and it does get a fair bit of both vehicle and pedestrian traffic.

That is good to know :D

[zara]

Zara, we can never know if that particular specific scenario could have been different if a different breed of dog was owned.

What we do know, through plenty of scientific literature and examples from other countries that have enacted BSL, is that it does not significantly reduce the incidence of bite rate/attacks/fatalities in the community.

Not only does this literature exist, but there are also Animal Management models such as those used in Calgary, Canada which DO significantly reduce bite rate/attacks/fatalities. These models have no breed specific legislation.

All of these subjects will be discussed in detail at the rallies so if you are able to attend I strongly recommend it.

But how do you convince someone who has been attacked or effected by a restricted breed attacked that BSL doesn't prevent attacks when it would have prevented the attack they suffered if the offending dog didn't exist?. You can't say to them "if it wasn't the Pitbull who got you another breed would have anyway so at the end of the day, BSL wouldn't have prevented you suffering a dog attack"?

[Cosmolo]

Because in most situations, a dog has been managed inappropriately so if that pit bull did not exist and the owner had a different breed, managed irresponsibly- who knows whether the attack would still have occurred?

BSL has never worked to reduce and prevent dog attacks. A few years ago i listened to a presentation by someone at an Animal Welfare conference. They said that because statistically, serious dog bites are so rare- there is no reliable way to identify the dogs prior to an incident. There are risk factors but many of those had to do with the owner, not the dog.

[melzawelza]

We can't aim our approach on individual incidents. Plenty of people have been attacked by non restricted breeds. If we took the approach of 'If a dog breed attacks someone, we will ban that breed'. There would be no dogs left.

While our hearts go out to anyone that has been attacked by any breed, the science says that restricting or killing dog breeds do not significantly reduce the incidence of dog bites on a whole in the community.

To ignore the models that DO significantly lower attacks does a disservice to Ayen's family and any other person that has been affected by an attack.

Edited October 1, 2011 by melzawelza

[moosmum]

Zara, we can never know if that particular specific scenario could have been different if a different breed of dog was owned.

What we do know, through plenty of scientific literature and examples from other countries that have enacted BSL, is that it does not significantly reduce the incidence of bite rate/attacks/fatalities in the community.

Not only does this literature exist, but there are also Animal Management models such as those used in Calgary, Canada which DO significantly reduce bite rate/attacks/fatalities. These models have no breed specific legislation.

All of these subjects will be discussed in detail at the rallies so if you are able to attend I strongly recommend it.

But how do you convince someone who has been attacked or effected by a restricted breed attacked that BSL doesn't prevent attacks when it would have prevented the attack they suffered if the offending dog didn't exist?. You can't say to them "if it wasn't the Pitbull who got you another breed would have anyway so at the end of the day, BSL wouldn't have prevented you suffering a dog attack"?

No,you can't say that.But you can say that if you ban 1 type of car because you were hit by that model,its not going to stop people getting hit by cars.

If you are in the wrong place at the right time when there is a lapse in duty of care,there are accidents.In all areas of life.

We have to improve duty of care,not just as owners,but as a community.The more dogs are"Outlawed" the harder it becomes to give them any place in the community.

[zara]

Because in most situations, a dog has been managed inappropriately so if that pit bull did not exist and the owner had a different breed, managed irresponsibly- who knows whether the attack would still have occurred?

BSL has never worked to reduce and prevent dog attacks. A few years ago i listened to a presentation by someone at an Animal Welfare conference. They said that because statistically, serious dog bites are so rare- there is no reliable way to identify the dogs prior to an incident. There are risk factors but many of those had to do with the owner, not the dog.

I totally agree that any attacks are owner mismanagement and the raising of dogs irresponsibly, but there are plenty of those owners with all different types of dogs and breeds which proves irresponsibility and owner mismanagement doesn't cause every dog and breed to be become prone to serious attacks and killings. What irresponsible ownership and mismanagement highlights are the type of dogs that are most likely to attack in irresponsible hands which seems to be the Pitbull type of dogs subject to the present target more so than anything else?

Pitbull type dogs are attractive to irresponsible people who like aggressive dogs which doesn't help the situation, but Rotties, GSD's etc and the various cross breed combinations of those type of dogs are also owned by irresponsible people too for the same reason but don't seem to cause the carnage of the same magnitude, like they are not the Rotty GSD type dogs ripping people apart, killing kids and other dogs on a regular basis is what I mean, the real serious one's seem to be the Pitbull Mastiff style of dog which is the reason they are clamping down on them from what I can see?

I don't think they single out the Pitbull Mastiff style of dog without good reason and I am sure it would be the same with any breed who featured regularly in serious attacks, so when the serious incidents keep featuring a particular style of dog, they really have no choice from public outcry to address the situation?