suziwong66 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Well thanks to everyone for the feedback. The constructive criticism was helpful, though it's nice to see that some of you like my original response It's hard to find a balance I think - if you don't reply you are rude, if you reply but don't explain your reasons you are unfair, and if you reply and explain your reasons you are judgemental. I think one can reply and explain their reasoning without being judgemental. Please be assured that i'm not having a go at you but perhaps it's more about refining the delivery of your message so that your reasoning has no inferred judgement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) We do the above & in 25 yrs of breeding have a 100% success rate so its easily done . We also refund a price once done . All prospective puppy owners are told this during first inquiries so they know where they stand & no confusion as they OP has had. If people still wish to talk breeding then we can go into detail of what we expect from any of our dogs being breed from ie Health testing again all easy to enforce if you do it with passion & understanding & keep it simple. The keen ones suddenly realize that is isn't simple & appreciate the time spent ,the fly by nights will breed no matter what without any thought with what they may produce just to have "that litter". As our breed is highly sort after by DD.BYB & exporters we spay all our stock & have no issues enforcing any contract if need be but haven't had to as yet So in 25 years of breeding you've never had anyone agree to the contract then not follow through with desexing? Yes everyone has followed our contract ,we follow up with people nearing the age listed if we haven't heard from them but everyone has done the right thing so far How would you 'enforce a contract'? What if the buyer wished to leave a dog entire and NOT breed? Or wanted to allow the dog to mature before desexing? They sign the contract & they are informed of all details well in advance & before they have been placed on the list,if they don't like the rules they don't buy from us ,if for any medical reasons it con't be followed through then obviously we work with that,Our contract was done by a solictor who brought on of our pups who specializes in "contracts" Anyone can be pursued if your willing to spend the money which we are happy to do & haven;t had to we don't want to spay prior to leaving but if it came to that option we will . There are multiple reasons why a person may not want to desex their dog, breeding is only one of them. Plenty of other breeders they can buy from but our pups must be spayed Edited September 21, 2011 by showdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Get the puppies desexed before they leave then you'll never, ever have to have that discussion again. And you'll never have to rely on a contract or "promise" that might not stand up in court. As someone else said, there's no difference between getting them done at 8 weeks or 6 months, so save yourself the headache of having to justify your decisions and don't sell puppies entire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris the Rebel Wolf Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Not at all, you were completely responsible. If this home were indeed wanting to breed in a responsible manner, they would and should have said as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zug Zug Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) I don't have anything much to add about your original post, but I was enquiring after a litter recently and in my email enquiry indicated that I would want to know about hip and elbow scores, and any health issues in the lines of dogs that were in the pup's breeding. This is important to me because I plan to train and trial in obedience and agility with my next dog. Anyway, I received a reply saying I sounded like I was buying a race car rather than a pet and that I was therefore not a suitable person to own one of their puppies. Now I really did think that was harsh. I am a very loving and devoted owner. I have trained my dogs and give them every care. I have no idea what the breeder thought that led her to sending me a rude email like that, but needless to say there is no way I would be contacting her again for a puppy. Then another person I made enquiries to more recently got very upset when I apologised and said I couldn't afford one of their puppies at $2200 + flights. I received a very strongly worded email saying that I had already paid more than that for a labradoodle cross-breed (I have no idea where she got that idea from) and making it very clear that my backing out was considered to be horse-trading of some kind and was offensive. So, again, no further contact with that breeder. I am surprised at how difficult it has been looking for a puppy. A lot of breeders have very strong views and some of these come as a surprise to puppy purchasers, and that includes me at times. I am looking forward to the day when I find the right puppy and the search is behind me! ETA: no probs with desexing at this end. I have no intentions to breed so happy to take a desexed puppy if the breeder prefers that or to go on a desexing contract if that is their preference. So the issues highlighted by your original puppy buyer would not be an issue with me. Edited September 21, 2011 by Zug Zug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 The problem is not with you in either case Zug Zug unless you're after a breed that routinely sells for over $2K, and they are rare. I'd be happy the first breeder has not tried to sell you a dog, because I think there's a high risk they haven't prioritised those things in their breeding program. So while it may be disappointing and annoying, it's taking you closer to the right match for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 The problem is not with you in either case Zug Zug unless you're after a breed that routinely sells for over $2K, and they are rare. I'd be happy the first breeder has not tried to sell you a dog, because I think there's a high risk they haven't prioritised those things in their breeding program. So while it may be disappointing and annoying, it's taking you closer to the right match for you. This Goodluck with your puppy search, the right breeder is out there sometimes it just takes a bit of looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I don't have anything much to add about your original post, but I was enquiring after a litter recently and in my email enquiry indicated that I would want to know about hip and elbow scores, and any health issues in the lines of dogs that were in the pup's breeding. This is important to me because I plan to train and trial in obedience and agility with my next dog. Even for a family pet those questions should be asked,we get excited when we get an inquiry from someone that has researched health issues & asks about them instead of just wanting A pup no questions asked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I don't have anything much to add about your original post, but I was enquiring after a litter recently and in my email enquiry indicated that I would want to know about hip and elbow scores, and any health issues in the lines of dogs that were in the pup's breeding. This is important to me because I plan to train and trial in obedience and agility with my next dog. Anyway, I received a reply saying I sounded like I was buying a race car rather than a pet and that I was therefore not a suitable person to own one of their puppies. Now I really did think that was harsh. I am a very loving and devoted owner. I have trained my dogs and give them every care. I have no idea what the breeder thought that led her to sending me a rude email like that, but needless to say there is no way I would be contacting her again for a puppy. Then another person I made enquiries to more recently got very upset when I apologised and said I couldn't afford one of their puppies at $2200 + flights. I received a very strongly worded email saying that I had already paid more than that for a labradoodle cross-breed (I have no idea where she got that idea from) and making it very clear that my backing out was considered to be horse-trading of some kind and was offensive. So, again, no further contact with that breeder. I am surprised at how difficult it has been looking for a puppy. A lot of breeders have very strong views and some of these come as a surprise to puppy purchasers, and that includes me at times. I am looking forward to the day when I find the right puppy and the search is behind me! ETA: no probs with desexing at this end. I have no intentions to breed so happy to take a desexed puppy if the breeder prefers that or to go on a desexing contract if that is their preference. So the issues highlighted by your original puppy buyer would not be an issue with me. I remember being shocked at a $2500 price tag on a puppy who was then expected to be returned to the breeder for her to have a litter to sell. I had no idea such prices or conditions existed in the world of pet puppies. Even now I would not pay that for a dog, although I'm no longer surprised by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris the Rebel Wolf Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I don't have anything much to add about your original post, but I was enquiring after a litter recently and in my email enquiry indicated that I would want to know about hip and elbow scores, and any health issues in the lines of dogs that were in the pup's breeding. This is important to me because I plan to train and trial in obedience and agility with my next dog. Anyway, I received a reply saying I sounded like I was buying a race car rather than a pet and that I was therefore not a suitable person to own one of their puppies. Now I really did think that was harsh. I am a very loving and devoted owner. I have trained my dogs and give them every care. I have no idea what the breeder thought that led her to sending me a rude email like that, but needless to say there is no way I would be contacting her again for a puppy. Then another person I made enquiries to more recently got very upset when I apologised and said I couldn't afford one of their puppies at $2200 + flights. I received a very strongly worded email saying that I had already paid more than that for a labradoodle cross-breed (I have no idea where she got that idea from) and making it very clear that my backing out was considered to be horse-trading of some kind and was offensive. So, again, no further contact with that breeder. I am surprised at how difficult it has been looking for a puppy. A lot of breeders have very strong views and some of these come as a surprise to puppy purchasers, and that includes me at times. I am looking forward to the day when I find the right puppy and the search is behind me! ETA: no probs with desexing at this end. I have no intentions to breed so happy to take a desexed puppy if the breeder prefers that or to go on a desexing contract if that is their preference. So the issues highlighted by your original puppy buyer would not be an issue with me. Ah, and so it works both ways - I would be really bothered by the 'race car' comment Zug, since the types of questions you were asking only prove you want the best for your pup, and have obviously done your research and are being responsible about buying. Money is always a touchy issue for some people. If I were asking $2200 for a puppy, I would be accepting if somebody told me they couldn't afford that. To some people it might not sound like much, to somebody on an average wage it is. I've been specifically saving so I have enough to purchase my next dog, which including transport is going to go just over $2000. But there was a period when I had to make an emergency trip to NZ to help look after my Grandma after her heart op, and I was concerned that would drain the funds I'd been saving. In the end it didn't make as much difference as I feared (and I was highly relieved that I'd gone!) but situations do change when you're talking about that level of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I reckon NWWB's just want a litter enquiry and ZugZug's no race cars here (or health compatibility testing) breeder would be a good match for each other. At least NWWB and ZugZug have shown they have the health and best interests of their puppies at heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lavendergirl Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I don't have anything much to add about your original post, but I was enquiring after a litter recently and in my email enquiry indicated that I would want to know about hip and elbow scores, and any health issues in the lines of dogs that were in the pup's breeding. This is important to me because I plan to train and trial in obedience and agility with my next dog. Anyway, I received a reply saying I sounded like I was buying a race car rather than a pet and that I was therefore not a suitable person to own one of their puppies. Now I really did think that was harsh. I am a very loving and devoted owner. I have trained my dogs and give them every care. I have no idea what the breeder thought that led her to sending me a rude email like that, but needless to say there is no way I would be contacting her again for a puppy. Then another person I made enquiries to more recently got very upset when I apologised and said I couldn't afford one of their puppies at $2200 + flights. I received a very strongly worded email saying that I had already paid more than that for a labradoodle cross-breed (I have no idea where she got that idea from) and making it very clear that my backing out was considered to be horse-trading of some kind and was offensive. So, again, no further contact with that breeder. I am surprised at how difficult it has been looking for a puppy. A lot of breeders have very strong views and some of these come as a surprise to puppy purchasers, and that includes me at times. I am looking forward to the day when I find the right puppy and the search is behind me! ETA: no probs with desexing at this end. I have no intentions to breed so happy to take a desexed puppy if the breeder prefers that or to go on a desexing contract if that is their preference. So the issues highlighted by your original puppy buyer would not be an issue with me. I had very similar experiences when enquiring about puppies. A few breeders seem to take exception to being asked about what health testing they conduct on their dogs. I was told very haughtily on a few occasions that "all my dogs are healthy and the pups are "vet checked" as if it was a personal insult to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOE Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Be very responsible and desex your puppies before they leave....... a desexing contract is just a piece of paper once they have the dog they wont care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podengo Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I had very similar experiences when enquiring about puppies. A few breeders seem to take exception to being asked about what health testing they conduct on their dogs. I was told very haughtily on a few occasions that "all my dogs are healthy and the pups are "vet checked" as if it was a personal insult to ask. Yeah I have had similar experiences, I think after learning so much online I have set my standards too high haha... I hardly ever get emails back from breeders if I ask about health testing, it's pretty discouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris the Rebel Wolf Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 From your guys experience I am just now thinking how fortunately I am to have been on contact with breeders who are up front and don't take offence when I ask about health guarantees! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fit for a King Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I don't have anything much to add about your original post, but I was enquiring after a litter recently and in my email enquiry indicated that I would want to know about hip and elbow scores, and any health issues in the lines of dogs that were in the pup's breeding. This is important to me because I plan to train and trial in obedience and agility with my next dog. Anyway, I received a reply saying I sounded like I was buying a race car rather than a pet and that I was therefore not a suitable person to own one of their puppies. I had the opposite Zug Zug - I received an enquiry for a puppy - sent my list of questions and received a response asking who the hell I thought I was and that he wasn't "adopting a child from a Third World Country" and if it was his dog he could do whatever the hell he liked with it without answering to me....I responded (politely) that puppies were my kids and I had every right to ask questions....he in not so polite terms told me to sod off and went into a vitriolic rant about breeders and said he would go elsewhere. I forwarded his details to others in the breed and advised caution...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fit for a King Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Be very responsible and desex your puppies before they leave....... a desexing contract is just a piece of paper once they have the dog they wont care. Sigh - I get so tired of this - in some breeds - especially large breeds - it is not feasible/advisable/responsible to spey/neuter at 8 weeks....for those with breeds where it is safe - great...for those of us who don't have that luxury pls stop implying we are irresponsible for not doing so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 You can have tubal ligations and vasectomies done. I know there's at least one breeder on DOL who does that to protect the puppies she's bred. It doesn't need to be a complete castration, that can be left to the new owner to have done if they want to, when the dog is fully grown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Be very responsible and desex your puppies before they leave....... a desexing contract is just a piece of paper once they have the dog they wont care. I and many others, don't feel comfortable desexing puppies prior to leaving for their new homes. There's ample documentation as to why not Be very responsible and desex your puppies before they leave....... a desexing contract is just a piece of paper once they have the dog they wont care. Sigh - I get so tired of this - in some breeds - especially large breeds - it is not feasible/advisable/responsible to spey/neuter at 8 weeks....for those with breeds where it is safe - great...for those of us who don't have that luxury pls stop implying we are irresponsible for not doing so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuggyWuggy Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 Be very responsible and desex your puppies before they leave....... a desexing contract is just a piece of paper once they have the dog they wont care. Sigh - I get so tired of this - in some breeds - especially large breeds - it is not feasible/advisable/responsible to spey/neuter at 8 weeks....for those with breeds where it is safe - great...for those of us who don't have that luxury pls stop implying we are irresponsible for not doing so.... My thoughts exactly. I've done my research about this matter and have decided against it at the present time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now