Was I Too Harsh?

[ncarter]

I thought you were a bit over the top as well, it sounded a bit condescending too me

our dogs are entire because they are working dogs.

why cant a castrated boy be a good worker too??

[Gayle.]

I think you were polite but judgemental, and needn't have bothered with the second reply. Maybe have a stock standard answer to anyone who wants to buy your pups for breeding, reply to all such enquiries with that and leave it there. Don't go into reasons, justification, why's and wherefore's.

Either that, or open yourself to being a mentor and start encouraging people who want to breed a litter, to do it properly.

[Boronia]

I thought you were a bit over the top as well, it sounded a bit condescending too me

our dogs are entire because they are working dogs.

why cant a castrated boy be a good worker too??

I know tis is but I reckon that little Stella is really listening to what you are saying Ncarter

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Perfectly reasonable and good on you. Best not to release undesexed puppies these days unless going for a show dog.

The only problem I see is if you had sold a puppy to someone that wasn't desexed then it's available to breed. These days, people are buying dogs from petshops (crossbreeds often) and breeding them as well. You can't blame the average low intelligence/principled/income person for seeing crossbreed puppies for sale in petshops at $1000 each and thinking they'll make themselves a bit of money by breeding, it's easy right? Until they have to pay for a caeser (or not), other vet treatment and then cope with the resulting litter ....

As a rescuer, I hear and see the results of this type of person's behaviour ALL THE TIME.

In my breed rescue I have an ex show dog, had 2 show homes then given or sold to another home undesexed they mistreated him most likely as he wasn't housetrained and is a nervous breed. Dumped at the RSPCA. Going to be euth'd due to timidity. Finally they agreed to release him - breeder (registered) did not want him back unless undesexed (he was 4 yrs of age by then). Sold to a very young couple with breed exp. (this did save his life). 6 weeks later, they were "moving house" and sold him to me. He's a particulary traumatised dog but is responding to love and tlc in a breed experienced foster home. He's been there for 6 months so far and is still progressing.

I could give you many examples of what I'm talking about above but won't as it will make my post far too lengthy but yesterday I did see "Labradoodles" for sale at my local shopping centre (sign on the notice board) - $1200 each.

Someone got an undesexed Lab and a Poodle and of course, has started on a money making path.

Edited September 20, 2011 by dogmad

[NuggyWuggy]

Well I don't want to come across as judgemental or turn people against registered breeders....I was hoping by saying the things I did, the person would see what could happen if I let my pups go without requiring desexing - not specifically to them but in general, and also open their eyes to how much work a responsible breeder puts into a litter and unless they are willing to do the same they shouldn't bother at all.

So maybe next time I should just say that my pups are to be desexed, but if they want to learn about how to become a responsible breeder I can offer some assistance.

[Gayle.]

I know of one breeder who offers to mentor any of her puppy buyers who indicate they might like to breed. In fact, this is the only way she will sell a puppy without a desexing contract but she assumes nothing and judges no one.

[Maxiewolf]

Well I don't want to come across as judgemental or turn people against registered breeders....I was hoping by saying the things I did, the person would see what could happen if I let my pups go without requiring desexing - not specifically to them but in general, and also open their eyes to how much work a responsible breeder puts into a litter and unless they are willing to do the same they shouldn't bother at all.

So maybe next time I should just say that my pups are to be desexed, but if they want to learn about how to become a responsible breeder I can offer some assistance.

Nope I don't think you where too harsh. I know that If I where to ever get to the point of being a breeder Id want to keep my pups out of the BYB 'trade' and the only way unfortunately to do that is to be responsible for your own actions and everyone else's.

You had options there for responsible people to obtain an entire pup. ie. to show, to be a registered breeder. So they certainly didn't have all avenues closed to them, to me a response like that means they already had plans for the pup. And defiantly not in the interests of the breed.

Though I do like the idea of offering them help with becoming responsible breeders, that way if they do not respond with interest well its a pretty quick way to weed out the byb's. I thinkt here is still a stigma that people think if they have "just one litter" that they are Not ByB's or Puppy farmers etc.

Good On you for being a Responsible Breeder IMO.

[raz]

[quote name='Nuggywuggywazabear' timestamp='1316555174'

So maybe next time I should just say that my pups are to be desexed, but if they want to learn about how to become a responsible breeder I can offer some assistance.

That's probably a better approach. The less said the better in a situation like that. That buyer is going to tell everyone he knows about your letter and you can bet he'll embellish it to make you look like some demon nasty breeder. He wont get the point you were making about ensuring responsible homes for your pups

[Fordogs]

OK, Please tell us how all of you folks managed to attain your first show/breeding dog ???

The numbers of dog club memberships are falling, they all require new memberships and new exhibitors at shows.

Why not take just a little time to talk to these people instead of simply judging them via e-mail, you may just be surprised???

[WreckitWhippet]

Well I don't want to come across as judgemental or turn people against registered breeders....I was hoping by saying the things I did, the person would see what could happen if I let my pups go without requiring desexing - not specifically to them but in general, and also open their eyes to how much work a responsible breeder puts into a litter and unless they are willing to do the same they shouldn't bother at all.

So maybe next time I should just say that my pups are to be desexed, but if they want to learn about how to become a responsible breeder I can offer some assistance.

If you are going to insist that pups are desexed at 6 months, save yourself the trouble of a contract and desex them before they leave. There's no difference between desexing at 8-10 weeks and 6 months, as the dogs have not finished growing at maturing at 6 months anyway.

[Leema]

With enquiries like these, I normally skim over the breeding bit, at least initially. I answer any relevant questions. I get a lot of email enquiries, to which I reply, and then I hardly ever hear back.

For someone who did reply, and did want to breed, I would enquiry about their interests and objectives. In some cases, it may be convenient for me to have a bitch on 'breeders terms' in a pet home, and I could communicate this with them. If they were interested in showing/breeding, I could mentor them in this.

I do not think your reply was overly judgemental or harsh. It's not the way that I answer enquiries like it, but that doesn't mean I'm right or you're wrong.

[WreckitWhippet]

OK, Please tell us how all of you folks managed to attain your first show/breeding dog ???

The numbers of dog club memberships are falling, they all require new memberships and new exhibitors at shows.

Why not take just a little time to talk to these people instead of simply judging them via e-mail, you may just be surprised???

1. I'd looked around for ages for a pup

2. I was already a Canine Council member, when I started my search. I knew I wanted to show and joined up, so I could demonstrate to the breeder that I was serious

3. I started out with a male, as that was what the breeder was prepared to sell me and she thought he was an obvious choice for the ring and showed potential

4. I already owned 2 ANKC registered dogs, both were desexed pets.

[raz]

OK, Please tell us how all of you folks managed to attain your first show/breeding dog ???of simply judging them via e-mail, you may just be surprised???

I borrowed a friend's canine journal and rang breeders up, introduced myself, said what I was interested in doing and asked when they were showing so I could go over and meet them. I'm currently helping someone get a pup (pet only) so sent emails to breeders who remember me from when I was showing.

eta if the person I'm making enquiries for wanted to show and/or breed I would have said so and i dont think any of the breeders i contacted would have responded less enthusiastically. They've all been great.

Edited September 20, 2011 by raz

[JulesP]

Too harsh. Sounds like the person thinks a bitch needs to have a litter prior to desexing. This is a reasonably common view. Not a convo to have on email imo.

The person now probably thinks registered breeders are nutcases and will buy from a petshop or puppy farm as it is easier to get their pet from them.

[Agility Dogs]

I think your reply was justified on the basis of limited information, but INCREDIBLY judgemental. The questions assume a level of knowledge that the general public may not have. Not everyone who wants a puppy to breed with is evil - they just may not know or understand the risks and/or issues. Your reply hasn't done much to change that. (Is it your job - that's another question.)

There was a time when if I had received your response it would only have served to strengthen my opinion that PB breeders are a bunch of know it alls who breed dogs that are inaccessible to regular people. Fortunately I've learned otherwise, but sadly people aren't born with the knowledge that Pedigreed dogs ROCK! Some of us take a while longer to work it out.

[Agility Dogs]

Too harsh. Sounds like the person thinks a bitch needs to have a litter prior to desexing. This is a reasonably common view. Not a convo to have on email imo.

The person now probably thinks registered breeders are nutcases and will buy from a petshop or puppy farm as it is easier to get their pet from them.

I had this experience with rescue and got my first dog from a pet shop. Much easier. Now I know exactly what I want in a puppy and who can help me with the next puppy that will come and live with us, but most people still don't want to go through the hassle or feel judged.

[Guest lavendergirl]

Yep - too "preachy". Maybe you could add some additional clauses to your questionnaire just outlining your reasons for asking each question i.e. desexing is important because...... You may avoid getting unwanted enquiries if potential buyers know your expectations up front.

[Fordogs]

Yes I know, I was already a member of the then Canine Council, and my breed club, I also went to shows and spoke to breeders and finally chose my breeder and then had to go on a waiting list for almost 2 years.

But now that I am in the same position looking for those special people who I would allow to own one of my precious babies I do at least have phone conversations with every possible buyer and sometimes I am pleasantly surprised. I don't have a web site so no puppy questionnaire. Usually first contact is email and second has to be via phone call. I simply do not respond to next email if they don't ring me.

[Red Fox]

Why not keep it simple and to the point? ;

All pet pups are sold with a desexing contract and must not be bred from.

That said, how do you enforce a desexing contract? You can screen your buyers. You can offer an incentive (ie, refund on proof of desexing), but you can't force an owner to desex or stop them from breeding the dog once they have it. Why not desex the pups before they go if you feel that strongly about it?

[Gayle.]

Can a desexing contract be upheld in court? Once someone has paid for something, it's theirs to do what they like with(as long as it's lawful) and breeding dogs isn't illegal.