Is My Dog Dangerous?

[Jibwa]

Hi Guys,

It has been awhile since I've has to seek advice on here.

I live in a remote aboriginal community, and two month a bull/staffy/dalmation sort of dog turned up outside my house. He was very skinny and had a swollen, red, yukkie eye. After feeding him for a week and i find out that his owners hadnt been in the community for a few mths, no one was looking after him. I decided to take him to the nearest town to have his eye removed. I did not get him desexed at the time because locals do not like their dogs being desexed and i would have had to be reprimanded culturally when they returned. Since then his owners have returned and no longer want him with only one eye so he (pirate) has been living with me. He is a beautiful dog. hes loyal, protective and really good with other teachers dogs and kids.

However on our morning run, pirate saw another camp dog further down the road. He attacked the dog. He looked at me when he had the dog pinned like i should be happy. I had to physically remove his teeth from the dogs body. While restraining pirate the other dog ran away. I am assuming from the blood, that the dog will probly not survive the puncture wounds inflicted by pirate. Sadly and I am ashamed to say, im not worried about the safety of the other dog as its feral and dangerous, it has bitten teachers kids and has almost been put down a few times, But its aboriginal owners keep telling us they'll keep him away from the school.

What i am worried about is what the attack means for pirate? Was it a one off attack? Is it because a teachers dog is in heat and he got all 'manly'? Will getting him desexed stop it from happening again? What do i do with him now? Should i consider getting him put down?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Carla

Edited September 18, 2011 by Jibwa

[persephone]

Hi. What is the attitude of the residents to dog attacks/deaths in camp? Do people seek revenge or replacement ...or is it accepted as what happens when dogs live with not much control over either hormones or behaviours? All this - your community's expectations-should play a part in what you now choose to do . It's not for me to even think about what they may require of you ... it's a different way of living - and you're the one in the middle .

If there is a bitch in heat, and your dog is part of this bitch's pack.. then he may well be asserting his rights. Fine , if he was running feral.. not so good if he has a caring owner ...

Desexing will obviously remove the hormones, but won't change much behaviour otherwise...he may have always been a fighter ...

I wish you a good outcome ..

[Clyde]

While restraining pirate the other dog ran away. I am assuming from the blood, that the dog will probly not survive the puncture wounds inflicted by pirate.

Unless the other dog is extra tiny I would be surprised if it dies from puncture wounds. I have seen some horrible attacks and wounds with the dog surviving. although perhaps in your community if it didn't receive proper care then perhaps a nasty infection will set in. Only you can make the decision about your dogs but why not just keep him on a lead? Give your circumstances I would not be inclined to euthanise unless legalities become an issue - which doesn't sound likely!

[corvus]

Depends on how you feel about him hurting other dogs? By the sounds of it you're not that fussed. In my mind if a dog has attacked another dog and injured it there's a good chance they will do it again in the future. That doesn't mean there's no hope for the dog or that they should be put down. It's just a matter of likelihood and how you wish to manage it. Around here, Pirate would be declared dangerous and possibly seized and destroyed, but the likelihood of him causing anguish here would be a lot higher than it is where you are. More people and dogs to encounter, different attitudes towards dogs and so on.

The bitch in heat may have had something to do with it, desexing may resolve the problem, but then again, maybe not.

[Jibwa]

Hi. What is the attitude of the residents to dog attacks/deaths in camp? Do people seek revenge or replacement ...

Dogs are left to their own devises here. If they fight they fight. No one really cares. The attack also happened early in the morning with noone around. If the dog doesnt return to camp/survive the attack the owners wont try and seek it out or get revenge. Thankfully there will be no retribution for the attack.

We used to live with the bitch until a mth ago, so id say he'd see her as his?

[Jibwa]

Depends on how you feel about him hurting other dogs? By the sounds of it you're not that fussed. In my mind if a dog has attacked another dog and injured it there's a good chance they will do it again in the future. That doesn't mean there's no hope for the dog or that they should be put down. It's just a matter of likelihood and how you wish to manage it. Around here, Pirate would be declared dangerous and possibly seized and destroyed, but the likelihood of him causing anguish here would be a lot higher than it is where you are. More people and dogs to encounter, different attitudes towards dogs and so on.

The bitch in heat may have had something to do with it, desexing may resolve the problem, but then again, maybe not.

Dont get me wrong. Im distraught over him hurting a dog. I never wanted it to happen and never want it to happen again. It's just that one particular dog wasnt a fabulous dog.

I wont be living in a community forever, so i need to know what to do to ensure it will not happen again.

[bedazzledx2]

I know people who have rescued camp dogs and I also know its a very different community from what we normally experience. I can ask if you like what their take on it would be??? My suggestion for the moment would be to manage him VERY well....

Depends on how you feel about him hurting other dogs? By the sounds of it you're not that fussed. In my mind if a dog has attacked another dog and injured it there's a good chance they will do it again in the future. That doesn't mean there's no hope for the dog or that they should be put down. It's just a matter of likelihood and how you wish to manage it. Around here, Pirate would be declared dangerous and possibly seized and destroyed, but the likelihood of him causing anguish here would be a lot higher than it is where you are. More people and dogs to encounter, different attitudes towards dogs and so on.

The bitch in heat may have had something to do with it, desexing may resolve the problem, but then again, maybe not.

Dont get me wrong. Im distraught over him hurting a dog. I never wanted it to happen and never want it to happen again. It's just that one particular dog wasnt a fabulous dog.

I wont be living in a community forever, so i need to know what to do to ensure it will not happen again.

[Jibwa]

I know people who have rescued camp dogs and I also know its a very different community from what we normally experience. I can ask if you like what their take on it would be??? My suggestion for the moment would be to manage him VERY well....

Yeah that would be great.

At this stage I dont think I should over react. But Im not letting him off leesh anymore. I'll get a muzzle just for added protection. Then when we get to Perth next, I'll get some him some training.

[BC4ME]

I would be careful about muzzling him, he probably won't like being muzzled and if another dog attacks him he has no way to defend himself.

I'd start teaching him now what is acceptable and what isn't.

[sheree_e4]

OK I have met many "camp" dogs Aind what he has done is pretty much the norm however now he has a loving owner you want to curb that behaviour,so onlead from now on and in my opinion you should have him desexed. While this may not totally stop the behaviour,you do not want to add to the feral dog problem yourself

I would not muzzle him either ,I do not think its fair if he is muzzled and another dog has a go at him and he cannot protect himself.

Him fighting is probably how he lost his eye, so he may never be totally trustworthy with other dogs, just keep him on lead and correct him when needed.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I did one trip out into the APY lands in 2001 and we visited about four townships and stayed overnight in one of them and visited several times to another one.

The place where we stayed overnight - had a pack of about 20 dogs that wandered around together and were generally left to their own devices. Among these were several dogs known as "cheeky pappa" for biting people. So you were warned not to go near or talk to the "cheeky pappa". Some dogs were adopted and looked after and fed by indiviuals in the community. Most dogs were left to fend for themselves. As best I could tell most of the dogs in the pack weren't "owned" by anyone. And could be adopted by anyone. But I wouldn't know for sure.

There was one white woman who was up there for work on her own (no partner) but had a big gorgeous bull terrier cross that was generally known as "cheeky pappa" for her own security. Though I never saw it even growl at anyone or any dog. He was desexed - the (cultural?) rules are different for the white fellas in those communites than for the black fellas (men and women).

So a white person (especially a single woman) with a cheeky pappa would be seen as a good thing as far as I know. But you could ask the local elders about it if you want to be sure.

I guess if was me - I'd be upset about him attacking other dogs and take whatever steps necessary to make that stop. Desexing might help. Be worth a try. As would be managing him when he has the opportunity to interact with other dogs and teaching him what you do want ie a calm ignore. I teach my dog to calm ignore cats on lead at the moment, by the "look at that" technique and blocking and reward/praise for attention back on me.

[persephone]

Muzzling this boy and therefore leaving him defenceless ...and making him look very different, thus attracting attention is probably not something I'd suggest.

I follow these folks on FB.... maybe they have ideas?

LINK

[Jibwa]

Sadly, it was damaged by his previous owners pouring boiling water on it

Up here the locals call dogs 'cheeky' if they're known to bite. Just having a big dog in the yard, means no one will come into it, which is a great relief since I live on my own.

I'm going to get him desexed next time Im in town. Needed to wait till his owner returned and would let me take him.

I think you are all right about the muzzle. We do have wild pack dogs around and isn't fair to leave him unable to protect himself. So I will stick to the lead and training. I will still want to get professional help, just to reduce the change of it happening again. I just dont want to give up on him just yet.

What I dont understand is why he attacked this time. We have 11 dogs living in the teachers street and he is fine with everyone of them.

[persephone]

Sadly, it was damaged by his previous owners pouring boiling water on it

they eye, I presume? poor boy - that would have been agony.

Keep us posted

[corvus]

I don't want to derail the thread, but I'm still not convinced a muzzle does leave a dog worse off in a fight than not being muzzled. Chiefly because of two things: 1) If several dogs or even one dog intent on doing harm has a go at him he's likely to get hurt whether he has a muzzle on or not; 2) IME dog fights are at their scariest and most damaging when no one wins in the first few moments and when one bites seriously, frightening the other and provoking them to bite harder and it quickly escalates into something very violent. I'm not convinced a dog known to do damage is not going to make a fight worse if they are allowed to deliver uninhibited bites. But that's in my situation. I can't say what the risks are in your situation, but although "muzzle will leave him defenceless" sounds like it makes sense, I'm not so sure that it does, personally. We had this discussion recently and I don't think there's much evidence for or against.

However, given you live in a small community and it's highly likely all the dogs know your boy, I don't think there's a need for management beyond leashing. Maybe they know better than to approach him. But that's your call as you know the situation better.

[Staff'n'Toller]

I don't want to derail the thread, but I'm still not convinced a muzzle does leave a dog worse off in a fight than not being muzzled. Chiefly because of two things: 1) If several dogs or even one dog intent on doing harm has a go at him he's likely to get hurt whether he has a muzzle on or not; 2) IME dog fights are at their scariest and most damaging when no one wins in the first few moments and when one bites seriously, frightening the other and provoking them to bite harder and it quickly escalates into something very violent. I'm not convinced a dog known to do damage is not going to make a fight worse if they are allowed to deliver uninhibited bites. But that's in my situation. I can't say what the risks are in your situation, but although "muzzle will leave him defenceless" sounds like it makes sense, I'm not so sure that it does, personally. We had this discussion recently and I don't think there's much evidence for or against.

However, given you live in a small community and it's highly likely all the dogs know your boy, I don't think there's a need for management beyond leashing. Maybe they know better than to approach him. But that's your call as you know the situation better.

It may not leave him defenceless, but what it will do is block some facial expression, which is extremely important in a community of camp dogs.

Jibwa if you want to continue running with your dog, I would drive to the outskirts of the community and run with your dog there- where there are no camp dog packs around.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

jibwa

You could probably get Steve Courtney at K9pro.com.au to put together a distance learning package for you, you can put up videos of your training and he can give you personal feedback that way. Or you can ask him if he can recommend anyone who lives a bit closer to where you are or can visit (ie anyone in "town").

If the dog is looking to you for approval, he's probably trainable. Not sure what the deal is with the other dog. Sometimes a dog or group of dogs will attack one they perceive to be weak or diseased or crazy or all of those things. Or sometimes they have a bad experience with one particular dog and will attack or get very excited when they see that dog or one that looks like it.