fbaudry Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Sorry if that has been done to death already.... I tried to search for a similar topic but couldn't find it. I have had my little foster (Failure?) for two and a half months now. He was originally very skittish around people and extremely hand shy. We have progressed in leaps and bounds on that matter and he is now a generally well behaved dog, both at home and outside. He walks on a loose leash and generally ignores other dogs as we walk past them, although he also knows how to greet politely when I let him do so with known dogs. We have issues with one particular dog though; this man walks his 3 shaggy poodle crosses, 2 of which are standard poodle sized and these dogs have always been gentle and shown appropriate body language around other dogs. The first time they met with Will (all dogs on leash in the street), one of them bounded towards Will in a play bow and gave him a fright to which he reacted (growl and bark). We quickly moved away as I didn't want him to stay in a situation where he wasn't comfortable. However he seems to have been affected and his reaction has grown in intensity. I have started the look-at-that game with other dogs, which he seems to be picking up despite my poor timing and clumsiness. However, when it comes to that particular dog Will always spots him before me and I just cannot get his attention. I guess that I am probably tense about it too when it happens and contribute to the situation involuntarily. Should I just treat him generously after each encounter, even if he didn't react the way I would like, to try and counter-condition him, or do I run the risk of reinforcing the behaviour? What else should I be doing to make him more comfortable with this situation? I don't want him to become best friends with that dog, just to be able to walk past each other calmly.. I know in an ideal world I should avoid this particular dog, or at the very least work from a very long distance to start with. Unfortunately I live in an inner-city suburb and our walking is done on leash in the neighbourhood and despite me trying to vary our routes / time we always end up bumping into each other, or at least seeing each other from opposite sides of a street. Any tips / advice would be very welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 It's always best to start with controlled set-ups if you can, avoiding known triggers. Failing that, I'd probably just do a U-turn and find some space when you encounter this particular dog. Try to keep calm, it's "just behaviour" after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbaudry Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 Thank you Aidan; unfortunately it's one of these situations where I can't always avoid the known trigger (except for never leaving the house). What worries me a bit if that this morning, Will spotted his arch enemy on the other side of a busy street, with traffic in between and still felt he had to react... I know it's "just" behaviour, but wish it didn't happen in public! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I've started walking Kenzie on a halti and this has helped us a lot - it gives me more confidence therefore increasing my clamness andfor her when she is wearing it she seems to be able to self manage better. this could all be in my mind and could just be because I am calmer and that therefore translates to her - but it's working for us. I'm in the same situation as you, there is one dog that we sometimes come across and usually when we do it's when we walk around a corner and suddenly they are there. Where ever I can I just maintain the most distance I can if I can't increase it. I also work at getting Kenzie to calm down at that distance. So going to her really solid foundation behaviours and if she does the behaviour rewarding that, which seems to calm her quite quickly these days. I did read somewhere the other day (but not sure where!!) that sometimes with dogs that react this way looking at using things like Rescue Remedy may help, but I don't really know much about that - maybe it's worth looking at a mix of natural therapy along with behaviour mod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Thank you Aidan; unfortunately it's one of these situations where I can't always avoid the known trigger (except for never leaving the house). What worries me a bit if that this morning, Will spotted his arch enemy on the other side of a busy street, with traffic in between and still felt he had to react... I know it's "just" behaviour, but wish it didn't happen in public! Yes, I know the feeling! It's part of the problem though, all your normal cues go out the window and the ones that come up when he is reacting take their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I'm loving take a breath on cue for helping my dog calm down again after he has fired up over something. Look for a flare of the nostrils or the mouth closing to signal inhalation, mark and treat. A good massage is also fantastically useful, but you may have to introduce massage at home where it's quiet before you try to take it on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbaudry Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 I'm loving take a breath on cue for helping my dog calm down again after he has fired up over something. Look for a flare of the nostrils or the mouth closing to signal inhalation, mark and treat. A good massage is also fantastically useful, but you may have to introduce massage at home where it's quiet before you try to take it on the road. That sounds very interesting! However, considering how uncoordinated I am (and not that good at reading body language to top it up!) I'm not sure I'll get very far. I need to go back to Control Unleashed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 You could try blocking your dog's view of the other dog, with your body and then watch for the inhale or just attention on you and mark and reward that. I can't always avoid cats, but we're getting better at behaving calmly. You could ask the other owner to help eg by stopping his dogs for a minute while you get your dog's attention back or change direction. Ignore your dog if he's going bunta while you have the conversation but keep him on short lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 You can also hold some treats above the dog's nose. With their head tilted up it's usually easier to see when they are scenting the treats and you can mark that. It was harder to see in my small dog, but I got it by letting him go for the treat and then pulling it out of reach. He inhales as he opens his mouth to eat something. Wait for the mouth to close again to be sure you got an inhale and not both. I still use food as a cue, but I was thinking today it would be nice to be able to do it without food. More work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 If the dog looks at the treat instead of the distraction, that's a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammieS Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 You've done so well Pretty Miss Emma! I'm curious - are you using a clicker? I stopped using the clicker to mark the "Look" and started just saying the word and waiting for her to look at me (which feels like forever) but I'm finding that Asti isn't progressing as fast as she did when i was using the clicker (and is even going backwards)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 You've done so well Pretty Miss Emma! I'm curious - are you using a clicker? I stopped using the clicker to mark the "Look" and started just saying the word and waiting for her to look at me (which feels like forever) but I'm finding that Asti isn't progressing as fast as she did when i was using the clicker (and is even going backwards)... Thanks!! :D I did use a clicker but have now stopped because it was getting difficult for me - I was just struggling with watching Kenzie, looking out for triggers, feeding treats, making sure my timing was good and then also remembering to click! So I've just gone back to using a bridge word - plus I always have my voice with me so as she is always listening for me I figured that was easier!! But I am considering using the clicker again, as I'm better at what I'm doing and she is so much better out and about. So I'm starting to think I might re-condition her to the clicker and start using that as I also find that they tend to learn a bit faster with a clicker. Also I often don't ask her to look I just use her bridge word the moment she glances at the "thing" so that she looks at me in response to that in order to get her treat. Once I have her attention from the "thing" then I might ask her to look at me if I can see that the trigger isn't going away or she just needs a bit more time to get used to it being there; I'm also at a point where I can ask her to look at something and as soon as she hears that and looks I say her bridge word and she instantly looks back to me. Just loving the system!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 You've done so well Pretty Miss Emma! I'm curious - are you using a clicker? I stopped using the clicker to mark the "Look" and started just saying the word and waiting for her to look at me (which feels like forever) but I'm finding that Asti isn't progressing as fast as she did when i was using the clicker (and is even going backwards)... Thanks!! :D I did use a clicker but have now stopped because it was getting difficult for me - I was just struggling with watching Kenzie, looking out for triggers, feeding treats, making sure my timing was good and then also remembering to click! So I've just gone back to using a bridge word - plus I always have my voice with me so as she is always listening for me I figured that was easier!! But I am considering using the clicker again, as I'm better at what I'm doing and she is so much better out and about. So I'm starting to think I might re-condition her to the clicker and start using that as I also find that they tend to learn a bit faster with a clicker. Also I often don't ask her to look I just use her bridge word the moment she glances at the "thing" so that she looks at me in response to that in order to get her treat. Once I have her attention from the "thing" then I might ask her to look at me if I can see that the trigger isn't going away or she just needs a bit more time to get used to it being there; I'm also at a point where I can ask her to look at something and as soon as she hears that and looks I say her bridge word and she instantly looks back to me. Just loving the system!!! I have been using LAT with my Border Collie girl who is motion reactive & also fixes eye & stares at little dogs. I use a clicker & yummy treats & she is going really well playing the game & has improved out of sight. However, I am copping a lot of snears & critisism from other people in class and at trials who do not understand the principals & they don't want to know either So that has been a big hurdle for me, to concentrate on what I am doing & turn myself off to the sceptics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrietta Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Sheena, you really have to just smile and let their sneering attitudes float right over your head. I'm all for constructive criticism and am always open to discussing new ideas and of course trainers don't always agree. But the way you have described these particular individuals... I truly don't think they are worth your worry. Easier said than done, I know. If you are getting results, stick at it. That's what matters, not people having a whinge about your methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Sheena Susan Garrett always says the best response to this is to beat them at trials. And have more people admiring your wonderful well behaved enthusiastic dog. I get a quiet moment of glee when my old stick in the mud instructor has her dog lagging along behind, or running away when she calls it. It is obedient enough to complete competition trials but shows no enthusiasm or joy doing it. Whereas mine does a down stay with her tail wagging the whole time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Sometimes I feel a bit smug when I realise that they don't keep up with the times. Mrs RB, I have seen a few trials where odl hats have dogs that just stop and sniff midway. Poor things with their calming signals, and owners who think that they're bored... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 at our club grounds - there really are interesting things to stop and sniff all over the grounds. Possum poo, dead birds, duck poo, magpie poo, dog poo, scents of best friend dogs from the class before. My dog was a shocker for putting her nose down and making off on a scent trail, so its not just the calming signals. I had to learn so much and work dilligently on relationship building and timing of A grade treats for my evil hound. And making sure I knew where I was going and telling her where she was going before she decided I wasn't going fast enough and either tried to drive me to go faster or decided that sniffing a trail was more important. Now all I need to do is bring the balance back to me from the contact - she's started bee lining for the treat at the far side of of the scramble or dog walk - which isn't there until I get there now. But if I can keep her attention on a ground covered in yummy treats, I should be good to go most anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Had a trial over the weekend & I really saw a heap of improvement in my girl, thanks to the LAT I have been doing with her. Firstly, I tried to do some LAT with her, but she just wasn't interested in looking at those "dumb" things...just had eyes for me We had some awsome runs & notched up 2 Q's & it would have been more except for my bad handling. The heat got to us by the 2 last events today & I found her finding other things more exciting than me. In 9 events, she never knocked a bar, or missed a contact or missed a weave pole. I was given comments like "gee your dog's running well today" & "nice layering & distance work". It felt so good to be getting compliments...of cause no comment from the sceptics I am so proud of my girl & happy with the LAT game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Good work, Sheena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Great work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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