klink Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 For all those non-believers out there re " face judging " regularly check your journals results. I rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Klink - Is it so hard to believe that some of these 'faces' might actually have some truely fantastic dogs on the end of their leads and it is infact the dogs that are winning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 you know, I don't care. I go to have fun with my dogs and enjoy the company of my friends. It's a nice day out, a hobby, something has to keep me poor and it might as well be dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevafollo Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Yes it happens and you learn from your mistakes pretty fast! You learn who the facey ones are and who does and doesnt like your dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conztruct Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Yeah of course it happens but I don't think it happens as often as people think it does. If any judges allow themselves to be influenced enough to make a blatently dodgy decision, I think they forget that many exhibitors are club officials and involved in the organisation of shows. The judge is doing themselves a disservice because when those same people are organising shows and selecting judges to approach they are very unlikely to consider them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamSnag Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Face judging really.. No way!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamSnag Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 you know, I don't care. I go to have fun with my dogs and enjoy the company of my friends. It's a nice day out, a hobby, something has to keep me poor and it might as well be dogs Agree !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaar Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Your name please - But seriously, I will ALWAYS support an honest judge whether they like & put my dogs up or not. Good luck to you in your training and gaining licences. We need more judges who judge the dogs and against the standard . Those judges who 'play the game' lose entries - as do those show secretaries who stack their own shows for their own dogs - they do not get my entries either. +1 If the judge was honest I will give them another entry in the future. If they are are honest but not "good" I will still give them another entry because who know s what will happen after 2 years when they can come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klink Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Klink - Is it so hard to believe that some of these 'faces' might actually have some truely fantastic dogs on the end of their leads and it is infact the dogs that are winning? Bjelkier, I agree with your comment re good quality dogs' and I appreciate that not all judges do the wrong or corrupt thing , but a regular glance through the various state magazines will leave you in no doubt of the payback system that amongst certain judges is rife. The sadest part about this state of affairs is that it continues unashamedly and without any actions from the various bodies to try the address the problem. In my opinion the reason is as obivious as a boyle on your nose, check out your boards of directors on the canine bodies. I personally feel that our canine bodies need to be managed by business people not dog people, and hopefully this would eliminate all the conflicts of interest. When all said and done the dog world is a business, and as such should be administered by professional business people not dog judges etc who are a product of the system that has been in serious decline under their stewardship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Klink - Is it so hard to believe that some of these 'faces' might actually have some truely fantastic dogs on the end of their leads and it is infact the dogs that are winning? Bjelkier, I agree with your comment re good quality dogs' and I appreciate that not all judges do the wrong or corrupt thing , but a regular glance through the various state magazines will leave you in no doubt of the payback system that amongst certain judges is rife. The sadest part about this state of affairs is that it continues unashamedly and without any actions from the various bodies to try the address the problem. In my opinion the reason is as obivious as a boyle on your nose, check out your boards of directors on the canine bodies. I personally feel that our canine bodies need to be managed by business people not dog people, and hopefully this would eliminate all the conflicts of interest. When all said and done the dog world is a business, and as such should be administered by professional business people not dog judges etc who are a product of the system that has been in serious decline under their stewardship. Given that "business people" will have profit as the bottom line, how much are you prepared to see memberships, show entries, litter registrations etc raised to fund such an organisation? As far as I'm concerned people need to either put up or shut up on face judging. Don't give facey judges your entries.. they'll get the hint soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tambaqui Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I've only been showing for over 2 years, and have seen some bad ones that I wouldn't give another entry again! However, I dunno whether I've been lucky, or not, but I've have shown under quite a few judges recently who has acknlowedged dogs I have handled and have done very well! There are judges out there that will judge your dogs and are honest judges! You just need to hang in there! I remember two shows I did, that I said to my mum that my dog won't do any good for the in group and probably just wasting my time, and then end up going on to win the Class in Group! So just because you don't get short listed, or you think the judge is putting up the "Faces", don't count your dog out too quickly, as the judge might still like your dog and would put it up! Afterall it is the judges opinion on the day! That's what makes showing more interesting, and second guessing what might happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klink Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Klink - Is it so hard to believe that some of these 'faces' might actually have some truely fantastic dogs on the end of their leads and it is infact the dogs that are winning? Bjelkier, I agree with your comment re good quality dogs' and I appreciate that not all judges do the wrong or corrupt thing , but a regular glance through the various state magazines will leave you in no doubt of the payback system that amongst certain judges is rife. The sadest part about this state of affairs is that it continues unashamedly and without any actions from the various bodies to try the address the problem. In my opinion the reason is as obivious as a boyle on your nose, check out your boards of directors on the canine bodies. I personally feel that our canine bodies need to be managed by business people not dog people, and hopefully this would eliminate all the conflicts of interest. When all said and done the dog world is a business, and as such should be administered by professional business people not dog judges etc who are a product of the system that has been in serious decline under their stewardship. Given that "business people" will have profit as the bottom line, how much are you prepared to see memberships, show entries, litter registrations etc raised to fund such an organisation? As far as I'm concerned people need to either put up or shut up on face judging. Don't give facey judges your entries.. they'll get the hint soon enough. Poodlefan, your comments re put up or shut up in relation to face judging have been spoken by many people over many years and I have not heard of any judges retiring or being stood down for lack of entries.many of these judges continue to roll along judging continually spoiling the showing adventures of many a new exhibitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Poodlefan, your comments re put up or shut up in relation to face judging have been spoken by many people over many years and I have not heard of any judges retiring or being stood down for lack of entries.many of these judges continue to roll along judging continually spoiling the showing adventures of many a new exhibitors. I have seen Show Secretaries blanch when told that the reason that entries are down is because of the judging panel. Target the people who book judges - show committees. They're interested in running financially viable shows. If they know that certain judges won't pull a decent entry, I'm pretty confident they won't book them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarracully Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I must be doing something wrong. Of all the judges I know that I have entered under not one has ever put one of my dogs up. I do better under judges I don't know than under the ones I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 It happens, but I agree with Bjelkier that those that protest the loudest are often playing the game themselves. It's like people who make a huge song and dance about dirty handling; those are usually the ones running their dog up your dog's rear. I see it as something you come to last as an explanation. First you consider honestly all the other possible explanations (your dog isn't competitive, your handling is average, the style of dog you have isn't one the judge prefers, judge has a thing about heads and your dog's head isn't its fortune, the face's dog is rather good etc) If you can honestly eliminate all that, then you chalk it up to experience and don't show to them again. I am inclined to agree with PF that it starts at committee level. Once you've been showing for a while you get a feel for whether committees tend to appoint mates, and there are some byzantine methods of putting up an appearance of impartiality while deals are still being done. It's not all like that tho', many committees care first and foremost about the reputation of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I am inclined to agree with PF that it starts at committee level. Once you've been showing for a while you get a feel for whether committees tend to appoint mates, and there are some byzantine methods of putting up an appearance of impartiality while deals are still being done. It's not all like that tho', many committees care first and foremost about the reputation of the club. Good lord, I just emailed everyone and the first ones back with a reasonable fee etc were the ones I booked. There are only 3 of us that show at our club and we wouldn't know a facey judge if we fell over them. I'm sure I could have asked around but I reckon if I had asked 3 much more experienced people then me I would have got 3 different answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poocow Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) I am inclined to agree with PF that it starts at committee level. Once you've been showing for a while you get a feel for whether committees tend to appoint mates, and there are some byzantine methods of putting up an appearance of impartiality while deals are still being done. It's not all like that tho', many committees care first and foremost about the reputation of the club. Yes at a recent show we heard someone question the committee as to the random assortment of judges they had picked and they quite blatantly told them that they picked them as they knew they would put their dogs up - and what do you know, all their dogs were picking up groups and classes in groups etc. Edited September 13, 2011 by poocow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitz3 Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 i'm very new to showing and never seen it but i've heard people talk about it and didn't know if it was real or sour grapes, then again i'm in a wheelchair and show my own dog who seems to do well and i've heard people say i only get the sympathy vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I am inclined to agree with PF that it starts at committee level. Once you've been showing for a while you get a feel for whether committees tend to appoint mates, and there are some byzantine methods of putting up an appearance of impartiality while deals are still being done. It's not all like that tho', many committees care first and foremost about the reputation of the club. Yes at a recent show we heard someone question the committee as to the random assortment of judges they had picked and they quite blatantly told them that they picked them as they knew they would put their dogs up - and what do you know, all their dogs were picking up groups and classes in groups etc. I wish someone would point me in the direction of these judges, I'd like some fringies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emery Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I am inclined to agree with PF that it starts at committee level. Once you've been showing for a while you get a feel for whether committees tend to appoint mates, and there are some byzantine methods of putting up an appearance of impartiality while deals are still being done. It's not all like that tho', many committees care first and foremost about the reputation of the club. Yes at a recent show we heard someone question the committee as to the random assortment of judges they had picked and they quite blatantly told them that they picked them as they knew they would put their dogs up - and what do you know, all their dogs were picking up groups and classes in groups etc. I wish someone would point me in the direction of these judges, I'd like some fringies When you are finished with them send them my way please i got some dogs i'd like to title but a firngie would make my day lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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