blitz3 Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 what is face judging? and does it happen very often? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 "Face judging" is what is known to be when a judge is judging the person on the other end of the lead, and not necessarily the dog... it does or doesn't happen, depending on who you talk to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) I think few people would say it never happens, the debate is probably more about how often it happens. And hey judges that put up their friends or pay back wins... well done on sending good kennels down the toilet. If you can show a yak under the right judge and get a win then of course you'll breed that yak and send the quality of your dogs on a one way downward spiral. Personally I find this the only way to explain how some really good quality kennels go to pot after some time. No one profits from face judging in the long run. No one. Edited September 12, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I have seen some unbelievable face judging in the few years I have been showing. One person could have taken in a three legged stool and won but it's not as common, I believe, as some people would have you think. And some of the people who scream face judging the loudest, I have found, are guilty of it themselves. The worst thing I have seen is an exhibitor walking up to a fellow exhibitor and saying, 'I will win under xxxx judge because they have known me for 40+ years and they will put me up' And what a surprise, they did. If thats the way people want to win then that's fine, people in their breed know and have no respect for the judge or the exhibitor and in the end it's the breed that will suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 The worst example I know was when a breed club was told their Judge was going to face judge and they chose to do nothing about it. It was a complete waste of entries for all involved. It was not the judges opinion on the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecutter Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I haven't experienced it yet, but my neighbour used to show BCs and a particular exhibitor would always wear a green suit, knew most of the judges and always won. At a show, this exhibitor was absent and my neighbour happened to wear a suit in the same shade of green and already had a similar hairstyle - barely a look at the entries and my neighbour got the win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I haven't experienced it yet, but my neighbour used to show BCs and a particular exhibitor would always wear a green suit, knew most of the judges and always won. At a show, this exhibitor was absent and my neighbour happened to wear a suit in the same shade of green and already had a similar hairstyle - barely a look at the entries and my neighbour got the win I have heard a similar story about a breed exhibitor who always wore a particular colour.. and how all the other exhibitors in that breed turned up in it at one show. Judge didn't know who to pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 "face judging " is more often than not, the loosers way of justifying why they didn't win. That's not to say it doesn't happen. There are certain judges that like a certain type of dog and exhibitors who choose their judges carefully and do well under them, often see those judges labelled as "facey". The way I look at it, if you do well under a particular judge, you;re an idiot not to try your luck again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) "face judging " is more often than not, the loosers way of justifying why they didn't win. That's not to say it doesn't happen. There are certain judges that like a certain type of dog and exhibitors who choose their judges carefully and do well under them, often see those judges labelled as "facey". The way I look at it, if you do well under a particular judge, you;re an idiot not to try your luck again. I agree with this too!! I think a judge is facy when completely different types are put up, and you see a handler suddenly handle breeds (I counted 6 at one show) that they have never shown before and they all get BOB.... Although I think shame on that exhibitor as much as the judge. I have probably only seen blatant face judging 7 or 8 times in the past 5 years so not all that common. Edited September 12, 2011 by ~Woofen~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecutter Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 So what is it called when a judge puts only one or two breeds up in group? I was at a show where everything in group went to a french bulldog or british bulldog. I am not the expert - but this seems more than a coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaar Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 "face judging " is more often than not, the loosers way of justifying why they didn't win. That's not to say it doesn't happen. There are certain judges that like a certain type of dog and exhibitors who choose their judges carefully and do well under them, often see those judges labelled as "facey". The way I look at it, if you do well under a particular judge, you;re an idiot not to try your luck again. Both agree and disagree with this... I have done well under some judges and yes would definitely show under them again, but then there are other dogs who you KNOW are going to win group before you even set foot in the ring just because they turned up to a show. Almost makes you want to pack up and go home and just not bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Stonecutter maybe the judge on the day thought that the frenchie or the BB were just too good not to put up and that they all conformed to the standard better than anything else in the line up, based on their own opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 So what is it called when a judge puts only one or two breeds up in group? I was at a show where everything in group went to a french bulldog or british bulldog. I am not the expert - but this seems more than a coincidence. I've seen it happen numerous times and I've also been on the end of a lead, when the breed was rewarded. It meant the judge liked the breed and the quality of the exhibits presented to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecutter Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Ok thanks all. Obviously everyone from the other breeds were stunned and there was lots of muttering from the crowd - exhibits barely all moved into the ring (in some classes not all the exhibits were even stacked up yet) and the choice was made. I wasn't sure if that was typical or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss B Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 "face judging " is more often than not, the loosers way of justifying why they didn't win. That's not to say it doesn't happen. There are certain judges that like a certain type of dog and exhibitors who choose their judges carefully and do well under them, often see those judges labelled as "facey". The way I look at it, if you do well under a particular judge, you;re an idiot not to try your luck again. Yep those are my thoughts too. I don't think 'genuine' face judging is as common as the "I-didn't-win-anything-so-I'm-going-to-whinge-about-face-judging" variety. Although I have overheard a judge say "I will always put up XYZ exhibitor if he enters under me, no matter what else is in the group" and needless to say, she went on my DFB list So what is it called when a judge puts only one or two breeds up in group? I was at a show where everything in group went to a french bulldog or british bulldog. I am not the expert - but this seems more than a coincidence. It means the judge was happy with the quality of the breed. It happened up here recently, BIG plus Baby/Minor/Junior/AustBred/Open in Group were all awarded to Jap Spitz. The judge then commented on the outstanding quality of the breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggy Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I think anyone who has been showing for a time would agree face judging does occur. If I suspect that has happened I make a note never to enter under that judge again. I feel this is the only way to give that judge the message - less and less entries will hopefully highlight to those judges that this practice is not appreciated. After all if you pay your money your dog is entilted to get a fair look. Thankfully there are many judges out there that will put up the dog not the face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shazzapug Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Of course it happens...judges who put other judges up so when they show under them they get payback...and I have seen the reverse when payback turned into a dumping Some faces arent judges of course so theres room for us mere mortals :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fit for a King Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Do I believe face judging occurs? Absolutely.....I had a recent heated discussion with a judge (nearly all breeds now) who openly admitted she "plays the game" and puts up the dogs she is "expected" to - ie the known faces and known dogs will continue to do so until she reaches all breeds then will put up what she wants to and really thinks is best....as a fellow trainee I was mortified by that admission and told her so......if from the beginning you don't judge the dogs on the day and be true to yourself why on god's earth would you continue? For the glory of being a judge? For the dwindling open show entries when people become disillusioned with you putting up "same old same old" and not thinking for yourself? Will I give this person entries at open or champ show - nope - on principle alone......will I play that game - nope - and if that means that I never elevate so be it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisart Dobes Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Do I believe face judging occurs? Absolutely.....I had a recent heated discussion with a judge (nearly all breeds now) who openly admitted she "plays the game" and puts up the dogs she is "expected" to - ie the known faces and known dogs will continue to do so until she reaches all breeds then will put up what she wants to and really thinks is best....as a fellow trainee I was mortified by that admission and told her so......if from the beginning you don't judge the dogs on the day and be true to yourself why on god's earth would you continue? For the glory of being a judge? For the dwindling open show entries when people become disillusioned with you putting up "same old same old" and not thinking for yourself? Will I give this person entries at open or champ show - nope - on principle alone......will I play that game - nope - and if that means that I never elevate so be it.... Your name please - But seriously, I will ALWAYS support an honest judge whether they like & put my dogs up or not. Good luck to you in your training and gaining licences. We need more judges who judge the dogs and against the standard . Those judges who 'play the game' lose entries - as do those show secretaries who stack their own shows for their own dogs - they do not get my entries either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
experiencedfun Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I dont care what a judge does as long as they do their OWN thing. Good or bad its their opinion I pay for not for them to follow the trend or follow last weeks results. Face judging does happen you just have to sort through the judges on their own merrit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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