Hip Dysplasia In Labrador Puppy

[luclen]

I was hoping too seek some advice.

We have an 8 yr old chocolate Labrador. We purchased him from a breeder and parents had excellent hip and elbow scores. Unfortunately, at around 6 months he developed elbow dysplasia in both legs. Two surgeries followed, and he has lived a happy life with our family.

Two months ago, we purchased a yellow lab puppy too join our family. Again, parents had good hip, elbow scores as I was extremely cautious this time. At his 2nd vaccination at the vets, the vet picked up his hip had some pain on manipulation........two weeks later he was sedated and found to have hip dysplasia in both hips. We were devastated........we were very careful with him, not overfeeding, over exercising etc. I had researched so much about hip and elbow dysplasia before we got him. He was returned to the breeder yesterday. We have a big hole in our lives.....

I wish too replace him, but I am very nervous about it. We we're so attached to our puppy, and it's been hard on our family, particular my children. My youngest just adored him and spent everyday just lying in the grass playing with him.

Does anyone have any advice they can offer in regards to obtaining a new pup? or is my luck just extremely bad I should look at another breed? We love labs, as our chocolate lab is just a friendly, docile loving dog.

I appreciate any comments.

Edited September 11, 2011 by luclen

[aussielover]

Can I ask what vet did the xrays and specifically, WHO read the xrays?

I would want a specialist to read them before I would accept a diagnosis of HD.

Especially given the only clinical sign was pain on manipulation- many puppies, especially squirmy lab puppies will react with a fidget, nip or yelp when their back legs are manipulated, especially if it is done in an unfamililar, stressful environment like the vets, and if the vet was not gentle (which some are not).

The person who takes the xray is important because positioning can affect the reading of the xray, and in some cases make it look worse or better than really is.

What did your breeder say? It sounds like they were responsible and did their best.

I think if both your pups had joint problems, then yes, you are unlucky

Would you consider an older lab- a rescue or assistance/guide dog/customs reject?

Other large breeds similar to labs unfortunately have pretty much the same predisposition to HD (Goldies, Flatties etc).

Border collies, greyounds and smaller dogs in general have less risk of HD (but other problems...)

I agree with you that labs have a terrific personality- personally I would risk getting another (even though mine has health issues as well- allergies) but would go for a working line, as i prefer the look and temperament and hopefully because they are working dogs, are bred for soundness and ability, not looks.

I feel for you and your family during this difficult time. It is not easy to give a puppy up, and I hope you are all coping ok

[zenchel]

Two months ago, we purchased a yellow lab puppy too join our family. Again, parents had good hip, elbow scores as I was extremely cautious this time. At his 2nd vaccination at the vets, the vet picked up his hip had some pain on manipulation........two weeks later he was sedated and found to have hip dysplasia in both hips. We were devastated........we were very careful with him, not overfeeding, over exercising etc. I had researched so much about hip and elbow dysplasia before we got him. He was returned to the breeder yesterday. We have a big hole in our lives.....

I wish too replace him, but I am very nervous about it. We we're so attached to our puppy, and it's been hard on our family, particular my children. My youngest just adored him and spent everyday just lying in the grass playing with him.

Does anyone have any advice they can offer in regards to obtaining a new pup? or is my luck just extremely bad I should look at another breed? We love labs, as our chocolate lab is just a friendly, docile loving dog.

I appreciate any comments.

This really needs to be clarified - are you saying that at his 2nd vacc - 12 weeks of age - the vet said he had pain etc and then two weeks later - 14 weeks of age - he was sedated and HD was diagnosed? Please can you be really clear on this - his age and the method of diagnosis? Was the pup xrayed? Is he really only 14 weeks of age now? On what basis did you and the breeder decide the pup should be returned?

I eagerly look forward to your reply, as I have very grave concerns about the course of events that have been related. I'm so sorry that this has eventuated.

Sylvia

[luclen]

Hi again

Thank you for the replies, much appreciated.

We live in country NSW so we are limited in choice to about 5 vet clinics. The vet that examined our pup at his 12 wk booster, hardly had to touch his hip and he yelped in pain. To be honest, I wasn't suprised, as a few times in the backyard he seemed to show pain or yelp if he was playing and landed on his hips. The vet advised he recheck it at his final booster in a month.

But a couple of weeks later he was playing in the backyard and his back end bumped against the kids play swing and he yelped in severe pain then spun around trying to bite at his hip.......my heart sank......the next day when the vet clinic opened I took him over (we live three doors down). He was sedated and vet had the opinion that hips were lux, sorry I have the vet report in my office for the official wording, it just upsets me rereading it.... He organized an xray that afternoon. He diagnosed hip dyplasia in both hips. I was devastated. Not accepting the result, we booked him into the biggest and specialist vet clinic for a second opinion......the results proved the same.(we never mentioned he had seen our vet earlier in the week)......

We contacted the breeder, who was shocked as well. We emailed both reports to her, and she took them to her vet to seek his opinion. In the mention time, one of my close friends is a vet in another vet practice over on the coast, so I sent her the reports and discussed the results with her.......it was agreed that we return the puppy, it wasn't about getting his purchase price back, it's just the fact that we had been through this with our first Labrador, and as I'm not working at the moment, it was my husbands decision. (with my chocolate lab I happily paid the thousands for two surgeries........now I have young children and not working i can't do that).

I am confident that both vets are correct in their diagnosis. Anyway, he went yesterday, and I am heartbroken. He followed me around the house, and yard, and I loved him and his personality to bits. Today, I was sweeping and I missed him trying to eat my broom like he always did,that I had too stop. Tonight I went to put the washing on in the laundry and his bed and toys sit there empty.....

Hope this answers your questions.

[Mason_Gibbs]

Could the pup not be returned to you and the breeder pay for the surgery?? Otherwise what is the breeder going to do with the pup??

[luclen]

Could the pup not be returned to you and the breeder pay for the surgery?? Otherwise what is the breeder going to do with the pup??

Hi there

In a perfect world, Yes, that would be a great result. Unfortunately, the breeder still insists the dog was dropped or kicked by our children.....she won't accept it was HD, but was happy to take the puppy back and refund the purchase price. She also stated she won't be breeding the mum and dad again.......which makes me query how could she blame the children.

After owning a Labrador with ED, and seeing the pain he went throughout pre and especially post surgeries, I was very aware of ED and HD and how to be careful of the environmental factors surrounding the diseases. The children were never unsupervised with the puppy, so we are upset that was even suggested.

It's just such a big disappointment for us.

[poodlefan]

Does anyone have any advice they can offer in regards to obtaining a new pup? or is my luck just extremely bad I should look at another breed? We love labs, as our chocolate lab is just a friendly, docile loving dog.

I appreciate any comments.

If you want a cast iron guarantee of no HD, buy a young adult dog that's been scored.

If you want a puppy that's less likely to get HD, choose a breed that scores low for that issue.

If you want a Lab, research research research, buy one from generations of low scoring dogs and keep it lean, don't stuff it full of puppy kibble so it grows slowly, don't let it run around like a mad thing and dont walk it on lead until its six months old. Even then you're not guaranteed a clear result but you improve the odds.

Edited September 11, 2011 by poodlefan

[Mason_Gibbs]

Poodlefan I must have just gotten lucky as with my first boy we had 3 stairs in our house that he had to go up and down ( he was too big for me to lift everytime when he was 16 weeks). I was a bit careful with his weight but he has had absolutely no hip/joint problems and he does sometimes play rough with my friends lab, he did this from 16 weeks.

What is happening to the puppy, are they rehoming or what is the plan?

[WreckitWhippet]

Poodlefan I must have just gotten lucky as with my first boy we had 3 stairs in our house that he had to go up and down ( he was too big for me to lift everytime when he was 16 weeks). I was a bit careful with his weight but he has had absolutely no hip/joint problems and he does sometimes play rough with my friends lab, he did this from 16 weeks.

What is happening to the puppy, are they rehoming or what is the plan?

That's the breeders business, given they have refunded the money and taken the pup back.

[Mason_Gibbs]

RSG if u share something like this on a public forum people will be curious and have questions and i am asking a genuine question, what happens in a case like this?

[RubyStar]

luclen, I have no advice to offer, only my sympathies

Before I got my first Labrador I read so much about HD/ED that I was an absolute basket case with my pup for the first 12 months, paranoid of every bump/jump/play, so I can imagine your heartbreak at finding out your second pup also had problems

Even with the critical first year of their life coming complete with extreme paranoia in my case, I would risk it again to get the breed my heart is set on.

Best of luck in your research into breeders and possibly other breeds if you go another way

[Crisovar]

RSG if u share something like this on a public forum people will be curious and have questions and i am asking a genuine question, what happens in a case like this?

What happens is entirely up to each individual case and the future well being of the animal involved.

The Breeder has stepped up and refunded on the pup, what they do now is their business alone.

[WreckitWhippet]

RSG if u share something like this on a public forum people will be curious and have questions and i am asking a genuine question, what happens in a case like this?

What happens is entirely up to each individual case and the future well being of the animal involved.

The Breeder has stepped up and refunded on the pup, what they do now is their business alone.

Well they could do nothing and sell the pup again

They could see a "specialist" rather than just a "vet" and either get the all clear or bad news

They could PTS the pup

They could do nothing in the short term, xray the dog at 12 plus months and have the scores read by someone qualified to do so

They could give the pup away with full disclosure of any problems

It's really the business of the breeder only and I doubt I'd inform a former owner what I opted to do with the puppy

Edited September 12, 2011 by ReadySetGo

[persephone]

It's really the business of the breeder only and I doubt I'd inform a former owner what I opted to do with the puppy

*nods*

[Rebanne]

If the vets didn't do a PennHip how could they correctly diagnose HD?

[Mason_Gibbs]

RSG if u share something like this on a public forum people will be curious and have questions and i am asking a genuine question, what happens in a case like this?

What happens is entirely up to each individual case and the future well being of the animal involved.

The Breeder has stepped up and refunded on the pup, what they do now is their business alone.

Well they could do nothing and sell the pup again

They could see a "specialist" rather than just a "vet" and either get the all clear or bad news

They could PTS the pup

They could do nothing in the short term, xray the dog at 12 plus months and have the scores read by someone qualified to do so

They could give the pup away with full disclosure of any problems

It's really the business of the breeder only and I doubt I'd inform a former owner what I opted to do with the puppy

Yup it is their business but I was just wondering what the options were thats all Genuine question as I had no idea.

[luclen]

Thanks for the replies everyone, and particularly for your thoughts.

I was too scared to ask the breeder what they were going to do with my puppy. However, on pickup (my kids and I left the house as I couldn't bear the thought of having watch him being taken away.....instead I cried my eyes out in the car whilst driving to no where), my husband asked what they were going to do with him. The reply "we'll do what needs to be done"......

Now I have interpreted that both ways.............however, he is still microchipped too me as I haven't signed a transfer of ownership form. I'm hoping she will ring or email me in regards to this.....at least it's a positive sign. But, honestly not knowing is proberly easier too deal with.

Many thanks everyone for your thoughts

[aussielover]

If the vets didn't do a PennHip how could they correctly diagnose HD?

You can diagnose HD using OFA style views.

Even Pennhip won't guarantee scoring in a pup under 16 weeks though.

If the HD was severe (severly luxated and signs of osteophtye formation etc)- and lets remember that xrays don't always correspond to predicted clinical signs, then it would be possible to diagnose HD in any age dog.

[sandgrubber]

Does anyone have any advice they can offer in regards to obtaining a new pup? or is my luck just extremely bad I should look at another breed? We love labs, as our chocolate lab is just a friendly, docile loving dog.

I appreciate any comments.

If you want a cast iron guarantee of no HD, buy a young adult dog that's been scored.

If you want a puppy that's less likely to get HD, choose a breed that scores low for that issue.

If you want a Lab, research research research, buy one from generations of low scoring dogs and keep it lean, don't stuff it full of puppy kibble so it grows slowly, don't let it run around like a mad thing and dont walk it on lead until its six months old. Even then you're not guaranteed a clear result but you improve the odds.

please see: http://www.offa.org/stats_hip.html

For the record, on average, 11.9% of Labradors record HD in the OFA statistics . That's the percent that show up as bad hips in X-ray readings. Most of these will lead normal lives, though quite a few will get stiff in their hindquarters when they get old. At 11.9% affected, Labs rank #86 of 160 breeds reported, ranked from worst to best. Many familiar breeds have worse HD stats, including all the mastiffs and bulldogs, pug, SBT, AmStaff, Shih-Tzu, Beagle, GSD, Rotti, ACD, Golden Retriever, Akita, and (yes, PF) Poodle. The percent of Labbies with excellent hips was 17.9, placing them in the top quarter of all breeds scored (37th of 160 from best to worst; poodles rank 72nd). There were more Labradors scored than any other breed, and only breeds with 100+ scores were listed, so the statistics are unlikely to be a fluke of the numbers.

I don't know why Labbies have such a bad reputation for HD. All the Lab breeders I know are careful about hip scores. I do know that the incidence of HD diagnosed by vets and disproved at a later time through X-rays and specialist diagnosis is pretty high. OCD is, statistically speaking, a worse problem with Labs than HD, but even with OCD, they are in the middle of the pack, and not, by any means, a problem breed. Of course, there is room for improvement. Puppy buyers should look for pedigrees with low incidence and talk with breeders about HD and OCD . . . you will find many breeders can give you scores going back a few generations, as well as scores for dam and sometime's sire's brothers and sisters.

Also, listen to quality Lab breeders, like Zenchel, and ignore Poodlefan, who seems as intent on defaming Labradors as some people are in defaming pit bulls. Not walking on lead until six months is poor advice, as it will deprive the pup of many or most opportunities for socialisation. Of course, you need to do things in moderation . . . no different with a Lab than any other breed. Labs do have a propensity to eat too much . . . and moderation in feeding is especially important. I know one person who has ruined hips and elbows on a couple Lab pups by running them on lead beside a bicycle on pavement. . . sometimes going several miles. When I was breeding Labs I walked my pups on lead but off pavement from about four months, starting slowly. They were doing a few km by six months. The average hip score in my pack was below 4 (total of both sides) and old age arthritis hasn't been a problem. Muscles need to develop along with bones. Jarring is bad . . . stairs, jumping off the bed of a pickup truck, mad fetching, especially on pavement, etc. can do harm.

Edited September 12, 2011 by sandgrubber

[suziwong66]

Does anyone have any advice they can offer in regards to obtaining a new pup? or is my luck just extremely bad I should look at another breed? We love labs, as our chocolate lab is just a friendly, docile loving dog.

I appreciate any comments.

If you want a cast iron guarantee of no HD, buy a young adult dog that's been scored.

If you want a puppy that's less likely to get HD, choose a breed that scores low for that issue.

If you want a Lab, research research research, buy one from generations of low scoring dogs and keep it lean, don't stuff it full of puppy kibble so it grows slowly, don't let it run around like a mad thing and dont walk it on lead until its six months old. Even then you're not guaranteed a clear result but you improve the odds.

For the record, on average, 11.9% of Labradors record HD in the OFA statistics. That puts them in the lower half of the pack for HD incidence (#86 of 160 breeds ranked from worst to best). Many familiar breeds have worse HD stats, including all the mastiffs and bulldogs, pug, SBT, AmStaff, Shih-Tzu, Beagle, GSD, Rotti, ACD, Golden Retriever, Akita, and (yes, PF) Poodle. The percent of Labbies with excellent hips was 17.9, placing them in the top quarter of all breeds scored (37th of 160 from best to worst). There were more Labradors scored than any other breed, and only breeds with 100+ scores were listed, so the statistics are unlikely to be a fluke of the numbers.

see: http://www.offa.org/stats_hip.html

I don't know why Labbies have such a bad reputation for HD. All the Lab breeders I know are careful about hip scores. I do know that the incidence of HD diagnosed by vets and disproved at a later time through X-rays and specialist diagnosis is pretty high.

Also, listen to quality Lab breeders, like Zenchel, and ignore Poodlefan, who seems to knock Labradors in a high fraction of her posts. Not walking on lead until six months is poor advice. Of course, you need to do things in moderation . . . no different with a Lab than any other breed. Labs do have a propensity to eat too much . . . and moderation in feeding is especially important.

I used the OFFA website to quote the lab stats to my vet practice staff (well actually no longer my vet) who strongly pushed that i let them perform a JPS procedure on Wilbur as a precautionary measure to ward off HD. I was really upset that they also tried to push the procedure to all of the puppy owners in our puppy preschool class last week ( Wilbur our lab, 2 teeny schnauzers (sp?) and a malamute X). I didn't go back this week and am not excited to go back for the final week. The hour has become mostly a didactic lecture with very little puppy socialisation It feels like the vet practice use the captive audience to market a specific food, pheromone sprays and surgical procedures. Instead of going to Sat's class we played hookey and went to a couple of pet stores where Wilbur got lots of cuddles and kisses with people and a sniffy hello to a poodle puppy. Then we went into the city and he was doted on by two lovely ladies who stopped for a meet 'n greet for a good 15 minutes. So in the end, we had just as much puppy contact as the class and way more people contact. I'm so considering playing hookey for the final class too...I'm feeling like a brave primary schooler planning to wag Friday sport