sandgrubber Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 (edited) Flatcoats and goldens originated out of the same earlier retriever types. They didn't become distinct breeds until 1908. There are still some yellow flatcoats. For pictures and more authoritative text: see, eg http://retrieverman....ton-flat-coats/ http://retrieverman....ated-retriever/ http://retrieverman....er-arent-white/ Black was totally extricated from the golden bloodlines by breeding only from dogs with the recessive yellow genes. All goldies are e/e . . . like yellow Labs. Edited September 10, 2011 by sandgrubber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdie Posted September 10, 2011 Author Share Posted September 10, 2011 (edited) . Edited September 17, 2011 by Purdie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 A bit off topic but say a dog is a specific colour, has been genetically tested and does not carry the colour coat that they are, how is this possible? For eg a choc lab only carrying yellow and black or black, I know nothing about genetics so would love to know more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapua Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 (edited) A bit off topic but say a dog is a specific colour, has been genetically tested and does not carry the colour coat that they are, how is this possible? For eg a choc lab only carrying yellow and black or black, I know nothing about genetics so would love to know more. Have a look at this website regarding colour genetics and Labradors - its great and very accurate. http://www.blueknightlabs.com/color/coatcolor.html In Labs there are only 3 colour Black, Yellow & Chocolate however there are different hues or depth of colour shall we say - most noticable are the yellows where the EE can be expressed as near white/cream to dark yellow . Chocolate can be expressed in the most desirable liver (dark chocolate) to a paler milk chocolate. The much disputed 'blue " Lab has been created by introducing a Wiemeraner (fawn) to the breed - which diluted the black creating blue. Having bred bench Kelpies in past I have bred 2 solid blacks who carried red & produced reds, a solid black & solid red who produced blue/fawn/red & black pups and solid reds who have produced two tones. In Kelpies there are 7 recognised colours and 2 extra non recognised colours by the ANKC. Plus breeders who falsley register two tones as solids and cream (yellow)Kelpies as fawn - and bred from them - so I NEVER trust a Kelpie colour pedigree. By comparison colour genetics in Labs are a piece of cake Edited September 10, 2011 by Tapua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sometimesnotoften Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 .I guess the Amerian Goldens may have different genes in their background .? ? a bit like their " brindle" pugs and their "blue" Weimaraners and their 'silver' labs Goodness what next,Tiger striped Dalmations.Anyway i did have a link to another forum ,but i took it off due to the rules.A person on there was saying that she mated her pure breed Goldens,brother and sister,and all the pups were black.So i guess her dogs had a recessive gene from a flat coat.It was also suggested it was due to the parents being siblings.Would this have anything to do with it,like pupps having a double dose of the recessive gene.Just got me wondering. and the Panda Shepherd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldielover Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Its actually very common for a golden retriever to have a few black hairs (usually they aren't noticed!) and occasionally a small patch of black. I haven't heard of any puppies born totally black though, but have seen pics of one born a few years back that was almost 1/2 black! I had 1 pup in my recent litter that has a small patch of black on one of her rear legs - probably around 1cm in diameter. Have never spotted any black hairs in her mum's coat, but her dad has a few! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 A bit off topic but say a dog is a specific colour, has been genetically tested and does not carry the colour coat that they are, how is this possible? For eg a choc lab only carrying yellow and black or black, I know nothing about genetics so would love to know more. This requires understanding of Laboratories, not Labradors. They make mistakes. I mated a choco girl carrying yellow (bb/Ee) to a black boy who had been genetically tested and found to carry both yellow and chocolate (Bb/Ee). 10 pups. Not one chocolate or the yellow you get when the chocolate gene is expressed (bb/ee). Chances are 1/1000 of this happening. So we send a sample from the dog to another lab. OOPS! They find the sire didn't carry chocolate (BB/Ee). A dog MUST carry the genes for the colour that it is unless something really strange has happened, eg., something has affected its pigment production system. At least that's how I understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Thanks for explaining Sandgrubber. So my yellow pup will carry choc ( his mum) and black because the other pups in the litter were black and mum carries black?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) Its actually very common for a golden retriever to have a few black hairs (usually they aren't noticed!) and occasionally a small patch of black. I haven't heard of any puppies born totally black though, but have seen pics of one born a few years back that was almost 1/2 black! I had 1 pup in my recent litter that has a small patch of black on one of her rear legs - probably around 1cm in diameter. Have never spotted any black hairs in her mum's coat, but her dad has a few! If a GR has black hairs through its coat or black patches it can't be e/e. This requires understanding of Laboratories, not Labradors. They make mistakes. I mated a choco girl carrying yellow (bb/Ee) to a black boy who had been genetically tested and found to carry both yellow and chocolate (Bb/Ee). 10 pups. Not one chocolate or the yellow you get when the chocolate gene is expressed (bb/ee). Chances are 1/1000 of this happening. So we send a sample from the dog to another lab. OOPS! They find the sire didn't carry chocolate (BB/Ee). A dog MUST carry the genes for the colour that it is unless something really strange has happened, eg., something has affected its pigment production system. At least that's how I understand it. yes Edited September 12, 2011 by lilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Thanks for explaining Sandgrubber. So my yellow pup will carry choc ( his mum) and black because the other pups in the litter were black and mum carries black?? I only sort of explained. If he carries black he is black . . . because black is dominant (it always expresses itself). Chocolate is recessive and will only be expressed if there are two chocolate genes (bb). If your yellow pup's mum is chocolate (bb), you know she carried no black (B) gene. So your pup is some variety of yellow carrying chocolate. See http://www.blueknightlabs.com/color/coatcolor.html for a clear, simple presentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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