RottnBullies Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 My views with regards to Dangerous Dog legislation is at the moment in NSW, there is only black or white. Once a dog is declared dangerous there is no chance of rehabilitation, I feel that one of the areas if we form a lobby group is that we need to work on levels of Dangerous Dog legislation with the ability for dogs being rehabilitated with accredited instructors. Again we would need to agree on who and what are accredited instructors. Under current legislation, in NSW a dog is basically permenantly locked in a cage, unless it is taken for a walk on a lead and muzzle, if your dog is declared dangerous you cannot even have it in the house, even if wearing a muzzle. I like that idea, as long as It's put in a realistic manner that not all the DD can be rehabilitated. But I do think It won't be easy, as It stands RB dogs are forced to live exactly as DD are under the the restrictions and they've done nothing wrong. In fact In Vic the restrictions for RB are a lot stricter than the DD, go figure It doesn't make any sense to me. A dog that's done the deed Is a little better off than one who hasn't I'm In and willing to help In any way that I can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 I'm absolutely in and happy donate time, knowledge and money. I've got a very strong understanding of the NSW Dangerous Dog and Restricted Breed laws and how they are implemented by Councils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Puppy Sniffer outlines three approaches, in order of increasing effectiveness: [abridged]A. Low impact: get attention and support of your local MP. B. Medium to high impact: anybody and everybody to write to the relevant Minister AND the Premier. Don't bother writing to other state Minister's as they will simply refer your letter on. The letters should be similar but not the same. ...The more factual your letter and the more questions or issues it raises means that the more knowledgeable the person who responds to it needs to be. It might also need to be run past their legal area. I'd be asking them to tell you what process they followed to create this legislation and studies they used to determine this approach would provide the best outcome and was the most enforceable. The more letters there are overall means that the Minister and their Policy Advisor and even the Premier can't fail to notice the public's discontent. Remember they are in power due to public votes! Until you get attention it is unlikely that a Minister or the Premier will agree to meet with you to discuss this in person. C. Maximum impact: 1. Meet [opposing party leader] and bombard them with letters because they will be looking for something they can use against the opposing party in Parliament. 2. Start a lobby group and build it up to include support from legitimate key bodies but let people lobby independantly as well. People can follow the advice or direction of the group that way so you are all working for the same thing. Remember if they don't have this legislation then what do they do? The lobby group could provide suggestions or even have reps on the board drafting new legislation. 3. Think about events to attract media attention like public marches or even approaching your local community paper to cover good news stories on that dangerous breed. ALL govt depts monitor media in their state, even those little local stories. 4.Check if your parliament ever sits in community locations. . . . . These are called deputations. Take advantage of these. Bombard the Comm Cab with requests for meetings on the issue (seperate people of course), wear t-shirts, provide them with studies, whatever you can do to get theirs, the media and the public's attention. Comm Cabs are a lot of work and the Premier and Ministers do not want to be caught out during them. It is likely that they would agree to meet with you more privately on this issue. 4. Be persistent! They need to know you're not going away quietly! They hate that! Even though this is currently happening in other states there is a risk for all of us. If a lobby group gets going then it can be emotive to get public attention but just not to govt as that isn't tangible. I'd love to make a t-shirt up with a gorgeous 'dangerous breed' puppy on the front saying something like "You want to kill my dog?" with details of what's happening on the back. That would get attention. I have a catch phrase going round in my head that is not quite there yet but it is something like "Police dogs? POLICE PEOPLE!" Great post! So few of us understand the system from the inside. Thanks for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brennan's Mum Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Count me in as well. Happy to add my signature. We can not afford to be complacent about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 (edited) I get that we probably need someone to test the current laws and defend those dog owners who have the misfortune to end up in the middle of it all and need help in court. I know tybrax was involved with one group and the EDBA is still working in that area. Im happy to support this in a relatively minor way - mainly because we have been there done that. Remember that most to the board of the MDBA were founding members and on the original board of the EDBA. Personally I think moving toward and using words such as rehabilitation, training - educating the public etc will fall on deaf ears. For the media, Jo public and therefore politicians in the climate which has been created the fact is only a very small minority care about these things. They have been conditioned to believe that no matter how well they are trained or rehabed ,no matter how well the owner is educated that with this breed and obviously sooner or later others that its just too risky to have them in their communities. They dont care about whether the owner of the dog which walked into a strangers lounge room and randomly killed a child was educated and responsible and some ratbag unlocked the gate and let the dog out or that there may have been less risk if it were better trained, or assessed . They want to know their kids are safe regardless of whether a dog is being assessed adequately, well trained, always under control and contained .They believe that one slip the dog is out and running wild and because of its breed it is more capable of really hurting someone than say a beagle is. I breed beagles and I wish I had $5 for everytime people want to tell me how they dont understand why anyone would ever want to own a dog of a breed which has a high prey drive and is capable of hurting someone or some animal walking around suburbia. Pop into the general discussion forum any day of the week and people who own and love dogs have to either stop walking wit their dogs, drive them to another location to walk them, walk with big sticks etc. So the result of the problem for me is that dogs are killed and judged by breed BUT lets be honest big dogs need bigger fences, different breeds or part there of do need different levels of control and training ,different medical conditions can and do cause a calm gentle predictible dog to become agressive virtually over night, some idiot who wants a giggle can open a gate and let the dog out ,some nice pretty lap dog can take a trip of a night meet up with a couple of other dogs and kill sheep etc and the owners have no idea that their dogs could possibly be capable of this. I could go on all night with these types of examples but you get what I mean. We need to identify the problem, clearly define what we want the end result to be rather than seeing the crap solutions politicians are coming up with and the media hype we are fed as the problem. Then go after realistic easily achievable solutions to the real base problem and emotion it generate with in the community rather than constantly trying to address the symptom of the attempts to address the problem. Dont get me wrong Im not saying dont do what you are suggesting but I think what you are suggesting will have a slow result, it will take lots of money and lots of people organised to lobby and rally and at the end of the day it wont change the problem or the emotion of the majority of the general community so while we may see small victories, maybe some laws squashed or re written its a constant battle and always will be. Politicians know that making a breed of dog extinct wont stop dogs biting people or other animals, they know that the chances of the bred actually becoming extinct is a hard task. But the people , the only currency they deal in VOTES see them as doing what they can to keep them and the streets safe - if the streets are not then safe - and we know they wont be - then they call for tougher "in case laws" and blame idiot dog owners and a breed or cross bred breeders or what ever rather than who they should blame and everyone votes for those who are seen to be trying to do something about it. To date over the past 10 plus years there have been donations made and loads of money spent on court cases and stress miles high for owners caught up in it and those trying to help sweating it out with lawyers and courts .tens of thousands of dollars spent in just one case to save one dog and hopefully change the laws or prove them to be illegal. We have choices - where will a legal fund take us ? Even if we gather heaps and spend heaps and prove it to be illegal for them to do what they are doing , prove they cant assess correctly etc what then? how long do we have before more and more dogs are dead and owners have to give up their pets etc? They will simply draft other laws - because if they want votes they have to because the problem still exists just the same as it is today. We do need a fighting fund to cover expenses involved with moving into a proactive campaign and we do need people to work together and help bang a very loud drum to get quick positive results - proven to work better than any laws .This way we can have a community which feels safer, dogs, kept responsibly and dog owners having their rights restored. Anyway, we think what we have in mind just might change it all and in a reasonably short time frame so we are moving that way in the hope we can not only tidy up BSL but also some of the issues associated with being able to walk your dog without needing to feel fearful of off leash or charging dogs regardless of breed. Edited September 11, 2011 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 See it just goes to show that intelligent rational people own dogs too and not just idiot bogans who don't give a toss. I'm sure there are heaps more out there who aren't DOLERS too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergenesis Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) See it just goes to show that intelligent rational people own dogs too and not just idiot bogans who don't give a toss. I'm sure there are heaps more out there who aren't DOLERS too. I'm neither intelligent or especially rational, but I still believe I am a good dog owner. I guess a good dog owner has compassion towards their animal, and the ability to relate to the dogs point of view, as well as a dabbling of common sense. Edited September 12, 2011 by cybergenesis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapferhund Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) Perhaps (and I am quite serious about this) we could start by sending this to each and every Minister including the Premier.....just to remind them the true nature of dogs and that what happened a few weeks ago in the death of that little girl was by one dog and by what circumstances......no one will ever know. warning.....you will need a box of tissues Edited September 12, 2011 by Tapferhund Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Perhaps (and I am quite serious about this) we could start by sending this to each and every Minister including the Premier.....just to remind them the true nature of dogs and that what happened a few weeks ago in the death of that little girl was by one dog and by what circumstances......no one will ever know. warning.....you will need a box of tissues Damn. You did warn me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpette Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Baylee and I did the Responsible Pet Ownership education program for 4 years until she retired due to old age. She loved it and so did the kids and teachers. She changed many people's perceptions about Rottweilers. Zephyr has just been accepted as a Pets as Therapy Dog through Dogs Victoria and I have no doubt that he will change people's ideas about the breed as well. Many people have written over the last couple of weeks that they are not willing to take their dogs out in public for their walks for fear of them being ceased by council rangers. I am of the firm belief that if responsible owners took their dogs out in public and showed people how well behaved they can be, that slowly by word of mouth people's attitudes would change. I have walked my dogs around this area for years, taken them to markets and town fairs, stopped and talked to people who wish to ask questions and slowly the community has gotten to know my dogs as well trained, well socialised, well behaved dogs who are not to be feared. They have also realised that it is not the breed of dog that is the problem, that it is the owner of the dog that determines if the dog is a problem. Some people we have not convinced, but with others we have been able to change their minds, to the point that when something happens they say that not all Rottweilers are killers because we know some of them and they are great dogs as they have responsible owners. This has happened through quiet and consistent education, not ranting and raving and coming across as a zealous owner. As they say, from little things big things grow, and word of mouth is so powerful. Just a thought and maybe a different approach. I know it takes a long time to get results, but it is a great way to reach the general public, because not much of the general public goes to organised dog events like shows and trials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 OH came up with a great idea we need to fight the media back with their own weapons - words and pictures. Photos of our dogs how they REALLY are. Playing with children, hogging couches, frolicking in the backyard. All breeds. A dog is a dog and their true purpose to be with us is being tainted by the medias flooding of vicious looking animals. come up and plaster them all over the wall of the coucil offices. Let them see the true nature and face of the animals they want to ban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keira&Phoenix Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 OH came up with a great idea we need to fight the media back with their own weapons - words and pictures. Photos of our dogs how they REALLY are. Playing with children, hogging couches, frolicking in the backyard. All breeds. A dog is a dog and their true purpose to be with us is being tainted by the medias flooding of vicious looking animals. come up and plaster them all over the wall of the coucil offices. Let them see the true nature and face of the animals they want to ban I like this idea. Put pictures up on public notice boards, in community halls etc etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I think at this point local Councils and MP's would use the line "Oh, we are just trying to ban Pitt Bulls because they are a 'known'dangerous breed that have killed and maimed etc. etc. blah, blah. I'm concerned that if we used "ALL BREEDS" at this stage, something would get lost in translation and the point would be moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 OH came up with a great idea we need to fight the media back with their own weapons - words and pictures. Photos of our dogs how they REALLY are. Playing with children, hogging couches, frolicking in the backyard. All breeds. A dog is a dog and their true purpose to be with us is being tainted by the medias flooding of vicious looking animals. come up and plaster them all over the wall of the coucil offices. Let them see the true nature and face of the animals they want to ban This wont work. It was used last time and failed dismally. I can post pictures of people swimming with great whites and patting tigers but it won't convince a lot of folk that the animals are "safe". The MOMENT you get drawn into an argument about what breeds are safe and what breed aren't you've lost. The only way ahead IMO is to talk about what makes DOGS safe and what doesn't. The emphasis has to be on education to socialise, train, desex and contain ALL dogs. That has to be coupled with effective laws to deal with dangerous dogs - which we have alreadly. Move away from that theme to talk about breeds and you play right into the hands of the BSL proponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I was just out walking Chopper, Angel and Trixie. They're well and truly broken in so when I see a kid reaching out to them I always stop and ask if they want to pet them. I don't care if the parent is in the process of trying to instill fear in the child, I think it's important to let people see that bull breeds aren't all sharks on legs [that's why Chopper's on a short lead on my other side where he can't reach them with his ginormous tongue! ] It got me thinking. What if I created a nationwide event and encouraged owners of all powerful breeds to put a tutu or a feather boa on their dog [or anything silly really, maybe a superhero costume, just as long as there are no spiked collars or chains], take it somewhere there'd be lots of families and encourage people to say hi to their dogs. Obviously it would need to only be dogs that are placid and would handle a situation like that well. But imagine if we all got out there and just got through to one person that it's not a breed issue, it's an owner issue. It could be a small step in making a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadesamara Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I was just out walking Chopper, Angel and Trixie. They're well and truly broken in so when I see a kid reaching out to them I always stop and ask if they want to pet them. I don't care if the parent is in the process of trying to instill fear in the child, I think it's important to let people see that bull breeds aren't all sharks on legs [that's why Chopper's on a short lead on my other side where he can't reach them with his ginormous tongue! ] It got me thinking. What if I created a nationwide event and encouraged owners of all powerful breeds to put a tutu or a feather boa on their dog [or anything silly really, maybe a superhero costume, just as long as there are no spiked collars or chains], take it somewhere there'd be lots of families and encourage people to say hi to their dogs. Obviously it would need to only be dogs that are placid and would handle a situation like that well. But imagine if we all got out there and just got through to one person that it's not a breed issue, it's an owner issue. It could be a small step in making a difference. I have been following this with interest. I really like your idea of a nationwide event I would certainly take mine along to something like that. But as with Chopper, my two would be so happy to be around kids they'd be itching to plant a sloppy one all over the kid's faces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 It's just a simple idea that doesn't need a huge amount of organising, just some Facebooking. People can go where ever they want. In fact I don't think there should be a central meet as once you put a large number of strange dogs in the one area it's a recipe for disaster. It would only work if people were responsible enough to know which, if any, of their dogs would be a good ambassador. I'd love to bring Bruno but he gets spazzy excited when he sees another dog, so unfortunately he doesn't get to fly the flag this time. Maybe next year if it's an annual event Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Good idea Ruth, you were the first doler i was worried about with your clan I have had abuse yelled at me this week, and a woman running over to stop her offlead dog saying hello to my onlead bt as i have a dangerous dog with lockjaw. I really am unhappy out walking atm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
experiencedfun Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 does anyone know any people in the eye of the media who own dogs and where they exercise them. If they were to innocently bump into well behaved *dangerous* dogs and see them playing it might get them thinking if all the hype is purely something that is misplaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladedadeda Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Good idea Ruth, you were the first doler i was worried about with your clan I have had abuse yelled at me this week, and a woman running over to stop her offlead dog saying hello to my onlead bt as i have a dangerous dog with lockjaw. I really am unhappy out walking atm Awww that is sad to hear, my mum was listening to the idiot that broadcast that all over radio the other week told his caller along the lines of "No you're wrong pitbulls don't have locking jaws that's bull terriers" I nearly choked at the ignorance, but we need to get our dogs out and show that they aren't the monsters that they are being made out to be before it's to late, Im ordering some cutsie outfits for Zeke lol can't say my husband is keen on walking him in duckie slippers hehehe but every time we have dressed him up we get a much better response from the public and they are asking to pat the "cute" dog before they even ask his breed, thats when we strike with the positive info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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