corvus Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Everyone except the muzzled dog that is. It will be unable to defend itself if its reaction to an offleash dog starts a fight. On leash and muzzled, it will be defenceless. Have you seen a fight involving a muzzled dog? I haven't, so I'm guessing, but as I said before, I wonder if a muzzled dog in a fight is in any more danger than an unmuzzled dog. How are they going to defend themselves? By doing damage with their teeth? Is that going to make it safer for them? Is the other dog going to even notice? If they do, are they going to back down, or go in harder? If I have a leashed and muzzled dog fighting, I am in a pretty good position for breaking it up quickly, and there's one less set of teeth to dodge. What are the chances of the dog that starts the fight delivering uninhibited bites in the first place? It's not that common IME. And I go to dog parks everyday. I've seen a few fights, and usually everyone comes out of it upset, but with not a scratch on them. I'm just saying, I would rather have a 'defenceless' dog than one with its teeth burried in another dog or someone's arm. As for whether they behave worse with a muzzle on... Presumably they have to learn that they can't defend themselves before they get worse, which means you've already had incidents where other dogs might have been in danger if it hadn't been for the muzzle, which kind of supports my opinion that it's not a bad idea to use one in the first place? It's just my opinion, though. No one need get defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Everyone except the muzzled dog that is. It will be unable to defend itself if its reaction to an offleash dog starts a fight. On leash and muzzled, it will be defenceless. Have you seen a fight involving a muzzled dog? I haven't, so I'm guessing, but as I said before, I wonder if a muzzled dog in a fight is in any more danger than an unmuzzled dog. How are they going to defend themselves? By doing damage with their teeth? Is that going to make it safer for them? Is the other dog going to even notice? If they do, are they going to back down, or go in harder? If I have a leashed and muzzled dog fighting, I am in a pretty good position for breaking it up quickly, and there's one less set of teeth to dodge. What are the chances of the dog that starts the fight delivering uninhibited bites in the first place? It's not that common IME. And I go to dog parks everyday. I've seen a few fights, and usually everyone comes out of it upset, but with not a scratch on them. I'm just saying, I would rather have a 'defenceless' dog than one with its teeth burried in another dog or someone's arm. As for whether they behave worse with a muzzle on... Presumably they have to learn that they can't defend themselves before they get worse, which means you've already had incidents where other dogs might have been in danger if it hadn't been for the muzzle, which kind of supports my opinion that it's not a bad idea to use one in the first place? It's just my opinion, though. No one need get defensive. The answer to both questions would be a resounding YES. All the muzzle does is stop the dog connecting. That's why they muzzle bait dogs.. the attacking dog gets all the hits in and the defending dog cannot inflict damage in return. In canine defence, if flight's out there's only fight left. Teeth play a very big role if there's a fight on. Talk to racing greyhound owners Corvus. They are required to walk their dogs muzzled. I've heard plenty of stories about muzzled greys having pieces taken off them by offlead dogs that attack them. If you think you can protect a leashed and muzzled dog from an offlead dog or dogs in a dog fight, all I can say is you've not seen dogs that intend to do harm. It's a melee of movement and teeth and the dog restained cannot flee and if muzzled cannot fight. Your best chance is before the fight starts.. after that, chances are you'll be on your arse spilled by your dog's lead as it attempts to get away while leashed or requiring microsurgery because you got yourself too close to the bitey end of the attacker. The result of unmuzzled dog attacking muzzled and restrained dog tends to be a vet visit or worse for the dog. Bait dogs don't have long lives. If a dog or person gets close enough to a leashed dog under effective owner control to take a bite, then how in hell is that the leashed dog's fault. Dogs known to start fights might need to be muzzled by why any owner should leave their dog defenceless on the odd chance it might defend itself beats me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatsofatsoman Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 The answer to both questions would be a resounding YES. All the muzzle does is stop the dog connecting. That's why they muzzle bait dogs.. the attacking dog gets all the hits in and the defending dog cannot inflict damage in return. This.. I've been with my dad walking his greyhound (muzzled) when two GSDs ran at us and were biting and hitting the greyhound from behind - first thing dad did was remover the muzzle then try and kick the GSDs, at least give your dog a chance when being attacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergenesis Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 (edited) I agree about not having to muzzle dogs leashed that might attack another dog that runs up to it. I walk my dog around this neighborhood a lot, and I've had some close calls with other dogs coming up to it unleashed. I know that sooner or later it will happen, and I think my Labrador can probably defend itself against most dogs (my dog is larger than the average male full grown Labrador, weighs 60kg). It would be different if it snapped at people walking past, but it is the responsibility of other owners to keep their unleashed dogs away from my leashed dog. I will not take away its right to defend itself, if an aggressive dog attacks it and given that my dog is not timid and is rather large, in most cases the other dog is going to come off worst (I hope). Of course I do everything in my power to avoid such a situation, but I do have a certain sort of twisted theoretical pride that my dog in all likelyhood could probably best most other dogs, if it came down to it. I am not saying ALL other dogs. I've introduced it to several other dogs, and it is ALWAYS top dog in the pack for some reason. It ALWAYS dominates other dogs lol. My dog is the king. Edited September 8, 2011 by cybergenesis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatsofatsoman Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 and I think my Labrador can probably defend itself against most dogs (my dog is larger than the average male full grown Labrador, weighs 60kg). Holy moly - your lab is the same as TWO average male labs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergenesis Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 and I think my Labrador can probably defend itself against most dogs (my dog is larger than the average male full grown Labrador, weighs 60kg). Holy moly - your lab is the same as TWO average male labs. Surely the average weight of a male lab is more than 30kg? Just checked wikipedia: Labradors are relatively large, with males typically weighing 29 to 41 kg Yeah my dog is pretty heavy hey lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatsofatsoman Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Surely the average weight of a male lab is more than 30kg? Just checked wikipedia: Labradors are relatively large, with males typically weighing 29 to 41 kg Yeah my dog is pretty heavy hey lol I think you'd find most get around at 30 - 34kgs I can't even comprehend a 60kg lab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Teeth play a very big role if there's a fight on. Depends what kind of fight. I've seen 'fights' with no or very little teeth contact. Not a scratch on any dogs involved. Talk to racing greyhound owners Corvus. They are required to walk their dogs muzzled. I've heard plenty of stories about muzzled greys having pieces taken off them by offlead dogs that attack them. Everyone has heard stories. But have you seen it? I haven't. I've never even seen a muzzled dog except a friend's grey. If you think you can protect a leashed and muzzled dog from an offlead dog or dogs in a dog fight, all I can say is you've not seen dogs that intend to do harm. It's a melee of movement and teeth and the dog restained cannot flee and if muzzled cannot fight. Your best chance is before the fight starts.. after that, chances are you'll be on your arse spilled by your dog's lead as it attempts to get away while leashed or requiring microsurgery because you got yourself too close to the bitey end of the attacker. Er, I didn't say I thought I could protect a leashed and muzzled dog. I said I thought I'd be in a good position to break up a fight. I was talking about all fights, not just the ones involving off leash dogs that intend to do harm. In fact, one of my points was how common is a dog fight where a dog intends to do harm? Really? I've seen it... rarely. I've tried to protect a dog on leash from an aggressive dog charging... successfully. Small dog and I am quick and lucky. Owner was nearby on two accounts and a tree was nearby on the third. I have broken up fights and then carted one off to the vet for stitches. It was not a melee of movement and teeth because one was in the jaws of the other. I have broken up fights that were a melee of teeth and movement and no one got hurt because none of the dogs involved intended to do harm. I've also broken up a fight blind because it was going on in a prickly bush. Shall I go on, or have I established my fight experience sufficiently? There is more. The result of unmuzzled dog attacking muzzled and restrained dog tends to be a vet visit or worse for the dog. What's your sample size? How much worse than two unmuzzled dogs fighting? How many dog fights between unmuzzled dogs when one is known dog aggressive end at the vets or worse? For which dog? Forget about bait dogs as we're not talking about pit fighting. If a dog or person gets close enough to a leashed dog under effective owner control to take a bite, then how in hell is that the leashed dog's fault. It's not, obviously. :rolleyes: I wouldn't want to see my dog do damage, though. I've been there and done that and somehow muzzles don't seem so bad in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 If I had a dog that was likely to injure another dog if it was rushed on lead, I would at least make an effort for it not to occur. For starters I wouldn't be walking in an area were dogs were likely to be off leash. If I saw a dog off leash, I'd walk in the opposite direction. If an owner was present I would yell at them to call their dog. I would hope that anyone with a reactive dog would take these steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatsofatsoman Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Talk to racing greyhound owners Corvus. They are required to walk their dogs muzzled. I've heard plenty of stories about muzzled greys having pieces taken off them by offlead dogs that attack them. Everyone has heard stories. But have you seen it? I haven't. I've never even seen a muzzled dog except a friend's grey. Yep seen it - been there. happened to my dad's grey on one occasion I was with him and numerous when I wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Surely the average weight of a male lab is more than 30kg? Just checked wikipedia: Labradors are relatively large, with males typically weighing 29 to 41 kg Yeah my dog is pretty heavy hey lol I think you'd find most get around at 30 - 34kgs I can't even comprehend a 60kg lab. Do you mean the average 'healthy' weight for a lab or the average weight of labs you see out and about? I totally agree though, I can't even comprehend a 60kg lab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatsofatsoman Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Do you mean the average 'healthy' weight for a lab or the average weight of labs you see out and about? I totally agree though, I can't even comprehend a 60kg lab. True - I should've specified healthy. Boonie is a lump at 30kgs, looked pretty heavy at 32kgs - wouldn't be able to walk at 60kgs. Unless old mates dog is a freak of nature i'd say a diet is on the cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I can't even comprehend a 60kg lab. I can. but it ain't pretty . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 (edited) I can't even comprehend a 60kg lab. I can. but it ain't pretty . Edited September 8, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atanquin Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Biggest loser for dogs and their owners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatsofatsoman Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Biggest loser for dogs and their owners I can see how it happens though - our friend's lab got out to 40kgs and was piling on the kgs. They were told by the vet to get him on a diet (we had mentioned what ours ate and asked what he was on - asking so as not to point the finger). The thing is they were over feeding him at each meal - believing 3 cups in the am the 3 cups in the pm was good for a big boy - then also feeding him scraps at dinner. Boon has never been fed off our plate so has given up sitting there staring at you eat - he knows he's not getting it so goes away - not so their boy, they give in so he'll sit staring and drooling until fed. thankfully the vet advice has been a wake up call and he's cutting weight - they are in contact with us as well to see what is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 The next person who tells me Labs metablise food differently to all other breeds or that Labs don't have the capacity to feel full is going to see me resisting the urge to give them a stinging slap. The problem lies with owners. And when you see those obese animals when you know how they can look, its a tragedy. Why wouldn't someone want a Lab that looks like this instead. The fact that a good proportion of Labs in the show ring look like beef cattle doesn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatsofatsoman Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 The next person who tells me Labs metablise food differently to all other breeds or that Labs don't have the capacity to feel full is going to see me resisting the urge to give them a stinging slap. The problem lies with owners. And when you see those obese animals when you know how they can look, its a tragedy. Why wouldn't someone want a Lab that looks like this instead. The fact that a good proportion of Labs in the show ring look like beef cattle doesn't help. I was going to say that - it looks as if the show ring has interpreted 'substance' in the standard as fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatsofatsoman Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 The next person who tells me Labs metablise food differently to all other breeds or that Labs don't have the capacity to feel full is going to see me resisting the urge to give them a stinging slap. The problem lies with owners. And when you see those obese animals when you know how they can look, its a tragedy. Why wouldn't someone want a Lab that looks like this instead. The fact that a good proportion of Labs in the show ring look like beef cattle doesn't help. coz they got more energy and are hypo - my big boy is a couch potato ;) you get my drift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 coz they got more energy and are hypo - my big boy is a couch potato ;) you get my drift? Fattening a dog has been a traditional method of dealing with energy levels for a long time Fatso.. and its not just Lab owners using it. Its the dog that pays though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now