Bite Release Advice

[Joypod]

Hi All,

I had a situation on Saturday which resulted in my Frenchie being bitten by another rather large dog. I have no idea what breed the other dog was but it looked like it might have been a cross between a boxer and a bull mastif. It was bigger than my dog anyway.

It was totally mine and Gus's (Frenchie) fault though. He was off lead in a public park and ran up to the other dog who was on lead. I accept full responsibility for him being bitten.

My question is, however, is there anything I could have done to make the other dog release its grip on Gus? He bit him and shaked him a little but by the time I got there, was just pinning him to the ground in a vice-like grip.

I tried in vain to pull his jaws apart and really didn't know what to do that wouldn't aggravate the situation. My fear was if I did something to try and make the dog release Gus, he (the other dog) would start shaking Gus... and he had him by the throat. So, all i did was physically support Gus and wait until the other dog let go. The owner of the other dog was trying to cover the dog's nose saying she had to cut off his air but that didn't seem to work either. Really, he only let go when HE WANTED to let go.

Does anyone have any advice about pressure points or successful techniques they know of to make a dog release it's grip?

Thanks guys

Joypod

[Tapferhund]

Joypod, how awful and distressing for you ...I hope gus is okay. Frenchies are such gorgeous little dogs with great natures!!!!

Sorry , can't offer any advice other than grabbing the balls (if the attacking dog has any) and twist the hell out of them forcing the dog to let go. Other than this....shove a stick down its throat , hit the dog over the head with a brick , rock or log of wood .......if there are any handy !

Edited September 6, 2011 by Tapferhund

[Roova]

Your poor Frenchie I hope it doesn't affect his happy nature and willingness to show friendliness to other dogs. Even though you say its your fault, I don't believe the other person should be walking a dog in public which reacts that way to signs of friendliness from other dogs.

I read this article recently which was very interesting. I've copied part of it but here is the original link-> http://leerburg.com/dogfight.htm Although it is about a dog fight you might be able to apply the same suggestion? It says:

The safest way to break up a dogfight requires 2 people. Each person grabs the back feet of one of the dogs. The dog back feet are then picked up like a wheelbarrow. With the legs up, both dogs are then pulled apart.

Once the dog fight is broken up and the dogs pulled apart it is critical that the people do not release the dogs or the dog fight will begin again. The two people need to start turning in a circle, or slowly swinging the dogs in a circle while they back away from the other dog. This stops the dog from curling and coming back and biting the person holding their legs.

By circling the dog has to sidestep with its front feet or it will fall on its chin. As long as you slowly continue to back and circle, the dog cannot do any damage to you. To insure that the fight will not begin all over again when you release the dogs, one of the dogs needs to be dragged into an enclosure (i.e. a kennel, the garage, another room) before the dog is released. If you do not do this, the dogs will often charge back and start fighting again or if you release the dog to quickly the dog will turn and attack the person who had his feet.

Dog fights are a very dangerous thing to try and break up alone. You should never rush in and try and grab the dogs to pull them apart. They are in high "fight drive" and are not thinking clearly when fighting. If someone grabs them they will bite without even thinking about who or what they are biting. This is how your loving pet can dog bite the living crap out of you in about a second and a half.

In reality it probably doesn't even know it's biting you. I compare it to a bar fight. If a person comes up behind 2 guys fighting and just reaches out and grabs the shoulder of one of the combatants most of the time the fighter is going to turn and throw a punch without even looking at who or what he is hitting. This is because his adrenaline in pumping and he is in "fight drive".

-------------

Hopefully this never happens again for you though.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Roova

[cornell]

My sympathies go out to you!

A dog with that potential needs to have a muzzle in public at all times.

I would also love to know what the 'right' thing to do is since you were also at risk of being bitten.

All I can think of is going for the other dog's eyes like a shark attack.

Thanks Tap I shall also store your ideas in mind.

I hope that some others also chime in so that we can all learn as much as we can from this.

Is it just me or has there been an increase in dog attacks lately?

Perhaps I am more sensitive as I have also been targeted recently?

Best wishes to you and your pup!

[Nekhbet]

you cannot cart a big dog vs a little dog like that. If the big dog has a collar on you choke the living daylights out of it until it lets go and if you are alone shove the little one away with your foot. It was the only way I got a 50kg dog off a SWF. This also stops the shaking a big dog does that tends to cause more damage then a grip alone.

Two evenly matched dogs you can pull apart by grabbing the back legs. Pull a little one out of a big ones mouth you will damage it more.

Most dogs in a fight dont feel pain. Add more by gouging eyes or yanking balls and you cause them to grip harder. Trust me I've taken a flying kick at a dogs balls and it did absolutely nothing. Plus you risk being attacked yourself since you are another cause of pain. And dogs in that mode move VERY fast.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Nekhbet

[cowanbree]

Use the lead or collar right behind the ears and choke it. It does place you at great risk of being bitten but it works

[Joypod]

Thank you ALL for your thoughtful comments and replies. This forum is one of the best resource sites on the internet... in my humble opinion.

It sounds like choking is the thing to do if at all possible which makes sense to me. The owner was trying to cut off his air supply by putting a plastic bag over his nose but I didn't really think that would work. I assumed the dog would just breath through his mouth even though it was wrapped around Gus's throat at the time. So she was sort of on the right track but needed to use his collar instead to choke him.

Gus is fine. Once he was released he rolled around on the grass for a minute (probably rubbing the sore bits) then trotted off like nothing had happened. He hasn't lost his Frenchie spark. Thanks again for your concerns. He is the light of my life that little man and he's very lucky he wasn't badly hurt. I only wish I could have that conversation with him to make him understand.

Anyway, thanks again for your replies. They're all greatly appreciated.

Joypod

[Ceilidh]

A dog with that potential needs to have a muzzle in public at all times.

Say what The poor dog was on lead and had another dog, off lead, rush up to it. It doesn't matter how big the does is, it obviously thought it was being attacked and reacted to protect itself!!

Well done accepting the blame Joypod! I am sure you have learnt a valuable lesson, fortunately without too much damage to your frenchie.

[Sandra777]

Use the lead or collar right behind the ears and choke it. It does place you at great risk of being bitten but it works

This - but if the dog has heavy dewlap (saggy throat skin) it may not work very well.

Hitting the dog which has a hold will do nothing except make the problem worse - unless you happen to knock it unconcious which is pretty unlikely.

If you can, stand behind the holding dogs' shoulder line (with a smaller dog you can straddle it and grip with your calves and knees.

[Fatsofatsoman]

To get his greyhounds to release anything (large or small) unwanted Dad would always lift their hind legs as high as possible - without fail they would release - whether it was a lure, next doors cat or each other.

not sure how this works in other dogs - although I have done it to a dobe x GSD that had Boonie pinned and it worked.

[dandybrush]

lots of great tips here, if im ever in the situation ill try to remember the grab the leg thing, when all else fails

[Odin-Genie]

Even though you say its your fault, I don't believe the other person should be walking a dog in public which reacts that way to signs of friendliness from other dogs.

Signs of friendliness can be quite subjective to dogs. An offlead dog running up to an onlead dog isn't necessarily seen as friendly. Many dogs would react badly to an offlead dog running up to them, particularly when they are on lead. Dogs don't like strange dogs getting into their space. Doesn't mean they need to be muzzled.

[Joypod]

A dog with that potential needs to have a muzzle in public at all times.

Say what The poor dog was on lead and had another dog, off lead, rush up to it. It doesn't matter how big the does is, it obviously thought it was being attacked and reacted to protect itself!!

Well done accepting the blame Joypod! I am sure you have learnt a valuable lesson, fortunately without too much damage to your frenchie.

Thanks Ceilidh . I have learnt a lesson: Don't become complacent. I'd been to this park before with Gus but had always, always kept an eye on him and whenever another dog entered the park, i'd put him straight back on leash. This day, i was distracted and lost sight of him and before I knew it he was off running up to this other dog. If I was that lady, I would have been pretty annoyed with me to let my dog do that when she was doing the right thing.

To get his greyhounds to release anything (large or small) unwanted Dad would always lift their hind legs as high as possible - without fail they would release - whether it was a lure, next doors cat or each other.

not sure how this works in other dogs - although I have done it to a dobe x GSD that had Boonie pinned and it worked.

This is great advice, thanks Fatsofatsoman. I hope I never have to put it into practice but I'll always keep it in mind. ;)

Even though you say its your fault, I don't believe the other person should be walking a dog in public which reacts that way to signs of friendliness from other dogs.

Signs of friendliness can be quite subjective to dogs. An offlead dog running up to an onlead dog isn't necessarily seen as friendly. Many dogs would react badly to an offlead dog running up to them, particularly when they are on lead. Dogs don't like strange dogs getting into their space. Doesn't mean they need to be muzzled.

I agree 100%, Odin-Genie. I think dogs react with caution to Gus sometimes too because he has no tail so he lacks that mode of communication. He can't wag it at them to say he's happy/friendly and I think some dogs get confused by that.

[Gayle.]

I have a dog who gets quite stressed when she's on lead and other dogs approach her. She obviously feels vulnerable, and she'll snap after a warning growl if a dog gets too close sometimes the growl is nearly silent and the snap comes very fast.

[dee lee]

I have a dog who gets quite stressed when she's on lead and other dogs approach her. She obviously feels vulnerable, and she'll snap after a warning growl if a dog gets too close sometimes the growl is nearly silent and the snap comes very fast.

She should obviously be muzzled Gayle... ;)

Honestly Cornell, are you advocating muzzling for every dog that may bite?

I would think that most dogs (not all) would have some kind of threshold where they will warn or bite.

Even my GR will grumble & warning snap at a silly dog that jumps at her face.

Solution? Dont let your silly dog jump on her! Especially when I warn you she wont like it! (Who would?!)

Anyway...

I say, good on you Joypod, for recognising you were in the wrong in the first instance.

It sounds like an unfortunate accident that you wont repeat!

Having had a DA dog, in the few instances that she did manage to latch onto another dog (when the behaviour had only just manifested) I was able to force her to let go by choking her.

I held the lead up high so her windpipe was constricted and she was forced to open her mouth to get more air. Its not an instant release though. She held on as long as she could.

It goes without saying though, a mastiff would be a tad more difficult to choke than a staffy cross.

Edited September 7, 2011 by dee lee

[Agility Dogs]

My sympathies go out to you!

A dog with that potential needs to have a muzzle in public at all times.

I would also love to know what the 'right' thing to do is since you were also at risk of being bitten.

What a ridiculous comment - the dog was under control and was (in its mind) rushed by an out of control rude little dog. That is not a friendly advance. As the OP has already pointed out the right thing to do would have been to have her dog under control in the first place.

This sort of ignorance really gets me cranky - if your dog runs up to another dog that is minding its own business in an area that is meant to be ON lead then be prepared to take responsibility for it - just like the OP has.

[Quickasyoucan]

If you try and grab a dog's back legs if it has clamped its jaws down and cartwheel it away you will just cause tearing to the dog that is being held.

I have been told: if the dog is clamped down cut off the air supply.

If it is a scuffle between two dogs (snapping but not attached) do the back legs thing.

Though it is easier said than done if like me you are not very coordinated . I have tried to catch a dog during a scuffle before and they do move fast....

[Fatsofatsoman]

If you try and grab a dog's back legs if it has clamped its jaws down and cartwheel it away you will just cause tearing to the dog that is being held.

I have been told: if the dog is clamped down cut off the air supply.

If it is a scuffle between two dogs (snapping but not attached) do the back legs thing.

Though it is easier said than done if like me you are not very coordinated . I have tried to catch a dog during a scuffle before and they do move fast....

The leg thing I suggested doesn't include any pulling away - just lifting their hind legs up quite high. Otherwise like you say your just dragging them and tearing the other dog.

[Quickasyoucan]

If you try and grab a dog's back legs if it has clamped its jaws down and cartwheel it away you will just cause tearing to the dog that is being held.

I have been told: if the dog is clamped down cut off the air supply.

If it is a scuffle between two dogs (snapping but not attached) do the back legs thing.

Though it is easier said than done if like me you are not very coordinated . I have tried to catch a dog during a scuffle before and they do move fast....

The leg thing I suggested doesn't include any pulling away - just lifting their hind legs up quite high. Otherwise like you say your just dragging them and tearing the other dog.

Sorry yes wasn't referring to your post there was an earlier one suggesting cartwheeling them away.

I also got told be very careful if there are 2 dogs attacking one as again the victim can get torn if you try to separate by pulling away it can be like the rope in the middle of a tug of war.

[whiskedaway]

I have a dog who gets quite stressed when she's on lead and other dogs approach her. She obviously feels vulnerable, and she'll snap after a warning growl if a dog gets too close sometimes the growl is nearly silent and the snap comes very fast.

She should obviously be muzzled Gayle... ;)

Yep, my Husky has become quite similar lately. Off lead she's fine, but if a dog gets too close when she's on lead she'll give a warning growl (and by too close, it's normally a dog sniffing her bits for too long!). I haven't let her get put into a position where she might snap, but I wouldn't put it past her to do it. I think she feels cornered when she's on a lead and like she can't get away. Many dogs don't like other dogs in their personal space, especially if they think they can't get away.