Another Dog Attack In Melb.

[Maxiewolf]

I couldn't agree more Corrie. I'm sick to death of reading about loose dogs attacking people and dogs. I think the laws should be harsher for those who have dogs that attack other people or animals. There's far too much of it everywhere, including in my street in recent times. I've been so worried recently that I have to drive my own dogs somewhere else to walk safely.

Tell me about it! It happens everywhere way too much! Yesterday I saw a guy walking down the street with two staffy type dogs walking happily with him on a lead no pulling or tugging, just in front of him behind a car (I saw it cos I was in a car driving past) in a drive way out of his line of sight an unrestrained little Schnauzer comes racing out to him and his dogs... I didnt see the aftermath because I was a passenger in a car and coudlnt stop... but yeah I doubt it would have been great and whos fault would it have been? Ohhhh the staffy owner of course for walking such "vicious" dogs out in public.

In my own street there isnt a single person who keeps a dog on a lead.... its insane!! with all this dog hype going on how come noone is keeping their dogs on leads and worried about the laws!

[zayda_asher]

In my own street there isnt a single person who keeps a dog on a lead.... its insane!! with all this dog hype going on how come noone is keeping their dogs on leads and worried about the laws!

Because it doesn't apply to *them*... they don't have a "dangerous breed" and their "safe breed" dog is ok... that's the natural fall out of BSL, it actually contributes to the compromise of community safety

Edited September 7, 2011 by zayda_asher

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I don't agree that BSL has anything to do with people walking dogs off leash. It has more to do with their own sense of importance, their puffed up bloody egos - ie I have a dog that I can walk down the street loose and am in total control - which is usually untrue.

Most of them don't give a crap about how that may affect other people nor do they care about the law - most of them wouldn't have any idea about BSL.

Many people have told me that they always had their dog off lead down the road but one day, that dog suddenly crossed the road. They were bewildered, they'd trained the dog since it was a puppy to follow them. Heard this ---- time and time again.

Many people with working breeds seem to do it, those dogs are often exceptionally obedient and do follow their owners anywhere but some also veer away from their owners to attack other dogs, even crossing the road to do so - I speak from more than one unfortunate experience of my own here.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I spent 4 weeks in the Uk last year and travelled and stayed in various parts of the country. I didn't see one loose dog, nor did I see anyone outside of London walking dogs off leash around towns.

In London (and I'm sure in other big cities), staffies and other large bull breeds are often owned by young men and I saw several in different suburbs, being walked off lead. It is part of a gang culture sometimes.

There is a problem over there with dog attacks in the city areas and far too many staffy/bull breed types being abandoned. Battersea Dogs Home in London has a lot of stats on how many they take. They farm them out to their homes outside of London but they are hard to rehome.

I don't know why the offleash walking happens so much here, I'd be interested if a study was done as to why people do it and why people are unable or unwilling to provide a secure yard so their dog doesn't ever escape. It's not rocket science but it seems to be an insurmountable problem for some reason.

[experiencedfun]

The only dogs I ever see off lead in streets around us are the two dogs across the road (a toy poodle and a pug) and they rush at everything. Every dog I see being walked is on lead at least until they get to the beach.

[zayda_asher]

I agree with you that there are a bunch of reasons people have their dogs off lead and don't act responsibly for them... but the "safe breeds" attitude is becoming very prevalent and it is a part of why people don't do the right thing with their dogs - I hear it a lot - "its ok, my dog is safe / fine / wont do that..." It is certainly one of a number of contributing factors.

[LizT]

I guess it comes back to basics. Don't touch a dog you don't know.

So if you saw a loose dog on the road that looked a bit freaked out you wouldn't stop to see if you could catch it and take it to a vet for a microchip scan?

This guy could have 'called the dog over' to catch it perhaps. Maybe not a dog savvy person, maybe it was a bitey dog who knows.

Just this afternoon there was slow traffic on the M7. Two large lean mastiffy type dogs loose on the median strip of the M7 A concerned guy pulled over and caught them, and then a motorcycle highway patrol also stopped to assist. No doubt these 2 saved those dogs lives. I swear they must have fallen off a ute, as the surrounding area was all concrete sound proofed.

Okay I'll admit I've been known to look out for the well being of the odd wandering dog. But I doubt I'd be encouraging anyone to call over a strange dog in a park as opposed to one wondering on the roadside.

Also on the flipside I've had my dog picked up from the front of my house/property as she patiently waited for my then young dog and I to return from a training walk around the block.

Someone saw her sitting there, at our gateway, went over to her and clipped on a horse lead, drove down to the council offices where they phoned me after checking her rego and finding out she was collected from the front of her rural home! The Shire told the Do Gooder to return her to where had taken her from.

[HugL]

I don't like the way media pick and choose their stories.

Have been told by more than one person of recent attack by Labrador. Guess that didn't make the papers cos it wasn't a "bull-breed".

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

All attacks should be publicised but many are not even reported to Council.

When a Pitbull in the next street to me jumped it's knee high gate and savaged a Jack Russell on lead with its young owner as she crossed what is a very busy road, I rang the council to make sure they knew about it. The police were called as the attack occurred right in the middle of the road and from a neighbour who witnessed the whole thing, it was very distressing indeed.

The JRT was almost certainly dead at the end of it. Several days later the council knew nothing about it and were not really interested. It wasn't reported in the local paper either. Shortly afterwards, the Pitbull and its owner disappeared.

A Labrador killed a poodle in the local dog park last year, again, not reported.

Recently another neighbour discovered dog fur and chunks of flesh and blood in the oval round the corner from me. Nothing reported to Council - I rang them and they knew nothing about it.

About a month ago, in my street, a "staffy cross" that was known by the owners to be dog aggressive was let out of their gate one night. The dog attacked a kid and his poodle and another dog (don't know what type). Both attacks were reported to Council - they spent two days driving round looking for this dog.

Neighbours on the corner have a cattle cross - when they open their gates the dog can get out - it is aggressive with small dogs and attacked another neighbour's dog. She did report it and the Council came and took action, gates were changed and guess what - the morons still leave their gate open. Council doesn't believe it or is too busy elsewhere ... My other neighbours and I hate walking past as you never know if the gate is open or not so we go elsewhere. They are moving now and going to inflict themselves on another street somewhere.

For the most part, the Council appears to know very little about what is going on because people don't report it.

[corrie]

There is no such thing as a safe roaming dog. It would be very interesting indeed if there were stats on motor vehicle accidents being caused by wanding dogs.

[sandgrubber]

I grew up in semi-rural places where almost no one fenced their dogs. I remember one neighbor who had a pair of rather vicious guard dogs, but otherwise, dogs mostly stayed home, but were free to wander, and leashes were hardly used. There were a few problem dogs. I remember a great dane that liked to hump kids (hard to forget) and an epileptic poodle . . . also a daschund that used to enter people's homes through cat doors, and certain dogs who turned over garbage cans and got sick eating the goodies therein. I don't think anyone did obedience training . . . and most of the dogs weren't very obedient. But they were socialised.

Dogs are not fenced in most village areas in the world, including the UK (see wonderful story http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4195198.stm or notice the way dogs show up on Doc Martin).

I think dog problems are part and parcel of the crumbling of settled cultures in which neighbours have learned to live with eachother, not always trusting one another, but respecting certain boundaries. Intolerance of vicious wandering dogs, with no help from the dog catcher, but perhaps some use of a 22, is part of such a culture.

Ok, ok, I'm a grumpy old woman.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

sandgrubber - I don't agree with you that dogs aren't fenced in, over in the UK. I'm actually from the UK and have spent over 30 years of my life living there, in a village. Last year I travelled through villages in several counties but in the true country parts of the UK and I still didn't see loose dogs. I did see many dogs, including those who stayed in the Bed & Breakfast in Devon that mum and I stayed at a for a few days. I even managed to see 6 different Border Terriers (amongst many other dogs) being walked on the same day - a relatively rare breed in Australia but one of my favourites.

It's simply dangerous over there with the very busy roads, even in the country, to have loose dogs. I don't know what the difference is but I believe it is attitudinal for the most part.

[LizT]

Well, for better or worse WE have created a society in which dogs can no longer be left to their own devices, walked in public off lead or even in their own neighbourhoods and parks.

We have taken away the natural socialisation that used to occur in the days when children played in the street. Imagine kids trying to play "kick to kick" outside your house in the middle of the road today with two or three dogs joining in!

Today people are subdividing their backyards because kids don't use them anymore, they have a Nindeno Wii for exercise and other indoor stimulation. Also they have far less 'free time' available due to the more structured after school activities (sports, music etc.) and heavier homework loads.

So in leiu of that we need to create "socialisation' opportunities, obedience clubs, permissable areas for dogs etc. etc. and admist all this some have fallen short of the task.

Edited September 7, 2011 by LizT

[Bindo]

This discussion reminds me of our days as kids with our gorgeous black and tan kelpie Laddie, the smartest dog I've ever known. He knew and loved all the neighbourhood kids and often used to 'visit' us at our pre-school, three doors from home. My Mum also used to take him to the shops in the car (?why) and she'd let him out and say 'you mind the car Lad' and he stayed at the back of that car for hours, while we shopped. He also knew how to climb the ladder to get on top of the cubby house with us, but Mum often had to rescue him to get him down! He also knew how to flush out the rabbits for my Dad on hunting trips in the bush and then stay behind the gun. Amazing dog, with no formal training at all.

Of course, times have changed and I support the current rules re leashing/wandering etc, but the lack of socialisation for some dogs is a true concern.

[Clyde]

I grew up in semi-rural places where almost no one fenced their dogs. I remember one neighbor who had a pair of rather vicious guard dogs, but otherwise, dogs mostly stayed home, but were free to wander, and leashes were hardly used. There were a few problem dogs. I remember a great dane that liked to hump kids (hard to forget) and an epileptic poodle . . . also a daschund that used to enter people's homes through cat doors, and certain dogs who turned over garbage cans and got sick eating the goodies therein. I don't think anyone did obedience training . . . and most of the dogs weren't very obedient. But they were socialised.

Dog

:laugh: Dogs will be dogs, love it!

[Weasels]

This discussion reminds me of our days as kids with our gorgeous black and tan kelpie Laddie, the smartest dog I've ever known. He knew and loved all the neighbourhood kids and often used to 'visit' us at our pre-school, three doors from home. My Mum also used to take him to the shops in the car (?why) and she'd let him out and say 'you mind the car Lad' and he stayed at the back of that car for hours, while we shopped. He also knew how to climb the ladder to get on top of the cubby house with us, but Mum often had to rescue him to get him down! He also knew how to flush out the rabbits for my Dad on hunting trips in the bush and then stay behind the gun. Amazing dog, with no formal training at all.

Of course, times have changed and I support the current rules re leashing/wandering etc, but the lack of socialisation for some dogs is a true concern.

This is awesome

I was on the main street in Margaret River not long ago, while OH was in a surf shop I waited with my 2 dogs on leash. Next door was a bank, outside was an old working dog-type waiting for his master, off-lead. Even with my excitable young pair nearby, he still waited faithfully outside the bank (came over and had a sniff, but then straight back to the bank door). The dog was still waiting there when I left, checking every person as they left the bank to see if they were 'his' human. Lovely

[sandgrubber]

I agree, modern life in the 'burbs requires more restraint. Nostalgia and sorrow that it's so. It's a vicious cycle and dog attacks are part and parcel of the decline. People don't select dogs for social temperament. Owners rarely pts their own dogs when they show HA/DA problems or bother livestock. Some laugh it off or even encourage it. Dogs and kids don't get to play in the street. Dogs get fenced in the back yard and ignored. They howl, get destructive, some get mean. When they do 'get out', they don't know what to do, and some do bad things. Others merely get run over.

You can still find pockets in the US where, regardless of the law, dogs live more-or-less free, but it's getting harder to find such places. My brother lives in one. His two rat terriers have their territories, which don't coincide with his property boundary, and the old girl feigns attack when an unfamiliar dog comes on property . . . but she doesn't do anything. Both dogs go with him when he goes running . . . he'll do miles in the nearby woods . . . he doesn't even bother to carry a leash. The neighbors dogs visit. No big deal. If they bothered my SIL's horses or otherwise caused problems, there would be words . . .

In much of Europe, almost all yards have fences, and dogs are kept in yards, so QED, they are fenced in. But some do go visiting, and are allowed to do so. Archie the Labrador, in that memorable BBC story (dog takes train home without owner . . . duly noted by the railroad officials who called the owner rather than nabbing the dog for riding without a ticket) wasn't wandering. He was heading home, presumably cause he got bored waiting for his owner. I've lived more in Germany (outside Leipzig) and Austria (outside Vienna) than the UK. There, dogs are generally more welcome than kids, and it's not uncommon to find an dog off leash in a restaurant/pub setting. I walked my Lab cross daily in open space, all around the 'dorf' . . . no leash needed . . and people were totally accepting. Sure, a big Rotti guard dog will be kept on leash if it's walked outside the compound. Also spent some time in less-developed countries, where guard dogs are kept by the rich -- and are often tied or fenced -- but the street mongrels (which are coming to be recognised as land races) are left to forage where they can.

Leash laws are a necessary evil. But they are still evil. I hope there will always be some pockets where the ACO is either subtle, or too overworked to apply the law, and where people can keep the peace on their own.