leroy Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 "What sort of organisation would support the practice of refusing to recognize a legal contract between a breeder and a puppy buyer that states unequivocally that if they are unable to care for the dog it is to be returned to the breeder.This dog is sterilized and chipped prior to being sold .This organisation did not scan the bitch for a chip.They then allowed an employee to put her name on the dog ready for taking home once they desexed the dog as it was a tubal ligation that sterilized her and they dont recognize that so will perform unnecessary surgery on an already sterilized bitch". "When I am contacted by the employee as she recognized her as my type and I say it cant be as all mine are chipped.The bitch is finally scanned and .............what do you know there is the chip". "So do they ...recognize the contract and return the dog to the breeder , or do they go with......... oh well your problem is with the buyer we legally are entitled to do what ever to the bitch be that unnecessary operations / rehome to a member of staff or if they want to they can if they find a reason they deem as true they can euthanise her". "So here we have a bitch who has a breeder who DOES take each and everyone of my dogs back no matter when or where for life who is always the second contact on the microchip has a legal binding contract requiring the return of the bitch and I cant stop this organization who is publicly funded to look after the welfare of unwanted animals.They can use the resources funded by YOU to waste on a bitch who has a home, which means some poor dog who isn't as valuable as a purebred wanted by one of there own employees is missing out and possibly euthanised because they dont have the space for it". "So breeders those of you who thought what you were doing was enough..........WRONG at any time in Australia these huge Animal organizations CAN if they get hold of one of your dogs decide to give , sell, or kill your dog" . "From now on the very least we need to do is have your name not as a second contact but as joint on every microchip .......HOWEVER you have to know they have one of your dogs they will NOT scan a surrendered dog....if they did then maybe they would have to return it which wouldn't give them carte blanche to take that purebred and do what ever the hell they want with it". "Friday night I found out that the partner of the woman who bought this dog surrendered and signed the surrender .........that partner has never, nor do they now own the registration or Microchip identification. So this means anyone can surrender any dog so long as they sign the surrender form to say they own it, and unless you find out and have way more luck than me you wont see that dog or know where it has gone ever again". "I have had a solicitors letter telling me I am not allowed to contact anyone staff ,volunteers , board members anyone at all within this organisation except the solicitor they appointed using public money raised to supposedly save UNWANTED pets". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Sadly any contrat you write that makes someone promise something in the future isnt worth the paper its written on and they are within their rights to do what ever they want with the dog. Lots of rescue decide not to return the dog back to the breeder for a whole bunch of different reasons and even if you put your name as secondary contact when a dog comes in as a surrender that the owner has decided they want to hand over to the rescue its their right to do so. I get how you feel and that this is something that is against what you hoped for when you sold the pup but the fact is in this case there isnt much point in beating up the rescue. In an ideal world our buyers will honour our agreements and come back to us if they no longer want the dog and or that the rescue will give the breeder first dibs they havent broken any laws or regs and contracts like this are worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmandaJ Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 I keep hearing that the contracts are not worth the paper they are written on but my old Law Lecturer always taught that every contract - verbal, written, implied or otherwise (regardless of what it is for, so long as the terms of the contract are not illegal) is still a contract under contract law and can be taken to court if not honoured. I know - you still have to take it to court - but isn't it time to test it? As animals are considered goods and chattel then the contract is no different to a contract for a car or a house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 It's actually the same for rescuers who have rehomed with a contract to say the dog should be returned to them if there is a change in circumstances. If the dog ends up in one of the large welfare organisations then the rescuers can't get their dogs back from them either and the dogs are subsequently euthanased or perhaps inappropriately rehomed as they are generally going from kennels rather than a foster carer who would know more about the dog's needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 I keep hearing that the contracts are not worth the paper they are written on but my old Law Lecturer always taught that every contract - verbal, written, implied or otherwise (regardless of what it is for, so long as the terms of the contract are not illegal) is still a contract under contract law and can be taken to court if not honoured. I know - you still have to take it to court - but isn't it time to test it? As animals are considered goods and chattel then the contract is no different to a contract for a car or a house. Its been tested several times and contract law says you cant make someone promise something into the future once its their own property and you cannot put punishments on if they breach into the future because its no longer your property - basic contract law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 It's actually the same for rescuers who have rehomed with a contract to say the dog should be returned to them if there is a change in circumstances. If the dog ends up in one of the large welfare organisations then the rescuers can't get their dogs back from them either and the dogs are subsequently euthanased or perhaps inappropriately rehomed as they are generally going from kennels rather than a foster carer who would know more about the dog's needs. Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Although I can understand being upset, if the dog is going to an appropriate home I can't any issue. Isn't that why the concept of 'taking back the dogs you have bred' was introduced? Wasn't it to ensure the dog wasn't euth'd or abandoned or open to abuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdie Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 What if someone stole a dog then later took it to a pound.If they don;t check for a microchip the the real owners wouldn;t be able get their dog back.The organisation concerned are not acting in the best interest of the dog even if they see they are acting within the law this seems so wrong . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Surely the problem here is that someone - not the registered owner - surrendered the dog and they didn't bother checking for a chip and contacting the owner????? The dog could have been stolen, spiteful ex partner etc. What the hell is the point of mandatory chipping if chips aren't checked for and the rightful owner contacted if a dog/cat is handed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 I agree with Mags. The lack of checks on true ownership is pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casowner Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 The other question is if the dog went missing (if they did not hand it over) did they report the dog as lost? Most shelters that receive a pure bred dog would remember it and if one was lost did the owner have a clue about what the other person did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 All dogs should be scanned - surrender or not and if the name isn't the same as the one on the form when it was surrended they should be contacted. That means anyone could steal my dogs, surrender them and I would not be notified because they were a surrender even if they name they were chipped in and the name on the form are different - that is not on! They like having purebreds as they can get more money for them and they sell quickly and easily compared to the generic cross breeds they are mostly filled with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 I would think that they have to scan the dog for a chip as when the dog is surrendered to them they transfer the chip into their name. When I got Em (purebred BC, whose breeder specified return if no longer wanted but she ended up being surrendered to the RSPCA) her microchip was in the name of the RSPCA as when they transfer it into your name it can't have the previous owners details on it due to privacy stuff associated with the surrender. So the form I used to transfer her chip details into my name had the RSPCA as her previous owner. Does that make sense??!! I think those sentences read the way they should. Plus they generally scan them to make sure that the chip details match those of the person making the surrender and if they don't they contact the person that comes up as the registered owner. I know of several dogs and cats who have been stolen/lost who have made their way back home this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 What if someone stole a dog then later took it to a pound.If they don;t check for a microchip the the real owners wouldn;t be able get their dog back.The organisation concerned are not acting in the best interest of the dog even if they see they are acting within the law this seems so wrong . It is illegal in all states of Australia to take a dog without proof of ownership and having the necessary documents covered. Report them - but how will you prove this? How can you prove they didnt check for ownership , have a stat dec or even check the chip and simply not tell you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shazzapug Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 What the hell are we microchipping for if dogs arent getting checked at shelters and pounds or Vets? It is supposed to help identify dogs if lost or stolen...the shelter in question could have a stolen dog in their hands and have already decided to re desex it and rehome it before they have even checked ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 What state is this in? Not all states have mandatory chipping and in these states not all pounds or shelters scan. Even if they scanned the dog and contacted the breeder, the breeder isn't the legal owner of the dog. When a dog is sold it belongs to the owner and they can decide what happens to the dog. Some owners don't want the fog to go back to the breeder for whatever reason. For example, my boys breeder was one of the most notorious puppy farmers in Australia. It would be a cold day in he'll before he went back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 I spoke to the RSPCA & asked if any animal I bred was surrendered to them would they please contact me & I would come & get it. I did not want any PTS. I explained I was a registered breeder & offered a lifetime re home but was worried in case any ever ended up there. All animals go to their new homes desexed & microchipped. They said NO When it comes in here it is ours & we decide what to do with it What can you do ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveretrievers Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 I spoke to the RSPCA & asked if any animal I bred was surrendered to them would they please contact me & I would come & get it. I did not want any PTS. I explained I was a registered breeder & offered a lifetime re home but was worried in case any ever ended up there. All animals go to their new homes desexed & microchipped. They said NO When it comes in here it is ours & we decide what to do with it What can you do ? They aren't going to give something of value back when they can make some money. It's shameful they will charge you more to adopt a purebred animal than a mutt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 I find it really odd that they would sell different breeds/purebred vs cross at different prices. Here in Vic the prices at RSPCA are just set by animal type and age. So I got my gorgeous ex-showdog at the same price as the mutt of totally unknown heritage. They advertise their prices on the website, however when I looked at the SA one they didn't - odd! I assume it is similar in the other shelters in Vic but don't know as I haven't adopted from many others (and those I have did have standard pricing for cats at least). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 People are prepared to pay more for a purebred. The extra money from one can pay for a operation on another. Smart business practices ensure that a shelter can survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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