wuffles Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Staranais, the obedience trialling exercises are always in the same order. Not sure if that makes a difference What I am interested in is, my girl knows that the reward is eventually coming but at the moment is still working for that reward. What I mean is that after she is released from the heelwork, for example, she will glance over at her treat container, act edgy, and whinge. She does the next exercise fine but with less enthusiasm and I can tell she just wants that damn reward :p So what I am interested in is how to get her to act edgy about doing the next exercise, rather than just wanting to go get the food. Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 wuffles, what about using rewards that you are allowed to use in the ring? I don't do obedience but I think you are allowed to pat and verbally praise dog between exercises (after 'exercise finished' ? Some people also have taught a hand touch? or similar trick the dog enjoys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 (edited) Staranais, the obedience trialling exercises are always in the same order. Not sure if that makes a difference What I am interested in is, my girl knows that the reward is eventually coming but at the moment is still working for that reward. What I mean is that after she is released from the heelwork, for example, she will glance over at her treat container, act edgy, and whinge. She does the next exercise fine but with less enthusiasm and I can tell she just wants that damn reward :p So what I am interested in is how to get her to act edgy about doing the next exercise, rather than just wanting to go get the food. Does that make sense? If you're releasing her from heelwork maybe she's confused and thinks the exercise is finished and her reward is coming? How often in training do you surprise her by releasing her to her reward during heelwork? If you often wait until after the exercise to reward in training maybe she has come to predict the reward will always come after heelwork has finished and that's what she is anticipating in the ring? I use a reward marker (yes) in between exercises to let my dog know she has got it right and her reward is coming, I don't actually release her until after we are finished when I give our release command. But I also rarely ever run a training session like I would a ring run out, I always keep when she gets the reward unpredictable so she never knows when it's coming (or where it's coming from - it may be a treat container on top of her crate, or from my pocket, or behind me in a treat pouch, or we might run over to it somewhere etc etc) Edited September 10, 2011 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 wuffles, what about using rewards that you are allowed to use in the ring? I don't do obedience but I think you are allowed to pat and verbally praise dog between exercises (after 'exercise finished' ? Some people also have taught a hand touch? or similar trick the dog enjoys. Yes, I do that (hand touches, spins, letting her jump up) and it helps her focus but it still doesn't make the next exercise rewarding for her, if you get what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I would also make the delivery of food more unpredictable. So, very short heel pattern, include a stand stay or SFE, return and reward like crazy. Then do a recall, return, short heel pattern, reward. I generally don't practice exercises in order as Zig will anticipate and I don't to kill off his hard earned enthusiasm by giving a NRM. I can't remember the last time I have followed a recall with a finish but the 'picture' is the same so they are perfect in trials. That's just me anyway. Hide the food as well so there is no visual cue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 (edited) I do lots of randomisation of rewards in training/mock trials and reward from many different places at different times. I am constantly working on this and I realise I need to do more work but it's hard without overworking her. It's not so much an 'issue' as she is doing really well in trials but I would just like to know how other people make the next exercise rewarding for the dog. I know not everyone trains like this but there are definitely people who do and I would like to know more. Edit: TSD, I do all that :p But unless we are doing mock trials every weekend (which we are not, and don't want to), we can't fit in enough randomisation in a trial setting. I never practice a finish after a recall. Edited September 10, 2011 by wuffles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 (edited) I see a lot of people falling into the trap of making training ring run outs and practicing the same thing over and over every time and rewarding the same way every time. That may work with some dogs but I know with my dog the second something becomes predictable, she loses interest and self rewards by scenting. The best way I find to maintain her focus is to always keep her guessing about when the reward will be coming. So when we're doing heelwork she's glued to my leg looking up at me like she is saying 'is it now? how about now? is it now? what about now? or now? or now?' I could release her to her reward at the start post, three steps into heelwork, ten steps into heel work, just after I've left her in a stay, just after a recall, after a drop or stand, as the 'judge' is approaching her to do her SFE. There's not pattern to when she will get her reward and if I can see her becoming bored or thinking she knows when the reward is coming then I've become too predictable. Just how I train it ETA: is it about making the next exercise rewarding or about improving her duration and durability? If she loses drive after heelwork IMO it sounds more like a duration/durability issue. Edited September 10, 2011 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 ETA: is it about making the next exercise rewarding or about improving her duration and durability? What I'm saying is that I already do that. Our rewards are completely random. I am the one in class who will run off in the middle of the heel pattern and reward my dog from a tree branch It's probably about duration and durability as well, but I think the two tie in together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Staranais, the obedience trialling exercises are always in the same order. Not sure if that makes a difference Oh that makes sense then, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 wuffles - do you train duration as a separate exercise? That can really help. Also, since Zig and I have been running in agility trials his enthusiasm about obedience training/trialling has sky rocketed. A couple of reasons that I think this has happened....in agility he might do up to 8 runs a day, which is a lot of pressure and a very long day so he is more mentally fit and experienced; the agility ring is high adrenaline and he seems to take the same excitement into the obedience ring; I've been concentrating on swapping between tug and food and improving his confidence plus he does some prancing heel work before he enters the agility ring; and his physical fitness is much higher. Anyway, just a few of my thoughts as I'm not an experienced trialler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Thanks for your posts guys, as usual they will give me something to think about We do train duration as a separate exercise. Her duration work certainly has improved but not to a point where she is pushing to do the next exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Having a labrador who is nearly ten years of age, tugging is not without unhealthy side effects. He has lost a couple of front teeth. I only tugged for a short time, but he was keen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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