8 Month Old Gsd Died

[Ltiger773]

Recently i bought a purebred german shepherd dog from a good breeder as a companion for my partner while i work overseas. The breeder had many dogs who all looked extremely healthy and beautiful. I looked at the mother dog who also looked lovely and i have copies of the hip/elbow scores which were all good. The breeder also provided contined assitance when i had any questions about feeding etc. I wasn't overly keen on getting a shepherd as i had no experience with the breed and wasnt sure what to expect but thats what my partner wanted. Anyways the resulting puppy was the most lovely dog i have ever owned. Her name was Eva and she was beautiful with a lovely temperament and a massive couch potato.

Three weeks ago, at 8 months old she literally dropped dead. My partner was with her and then went back outside 20min and couldn't find her, she had crawled under the house (which she never did) to die. They found her in a pool of blood. They tried to get her to a vet but 10min later she was dead. The vet opened her up and said that her intestines looked quite purple and inflamed, like they were dying. She had some small bones in her intestines which is fairly normal i think, she had some fresh chicken necks earlier. She was fed a very variable diet, biscuits, wet food, mince, chicken necks, fresh bones, leftovers (no onions, no chocolate, no cooked bones). She lived with two other small dogs who had the same diet. She didn’t gobble her food but always ate it slowly like a lady. She did love playing and snapping at water though. She was not an overly excitable dog and wasnt fed directly before or after exercise.

Has anyone else had an experience like this. The vets were unsure of what killed her. They thought maybe a blood disorder since she appeared to bleed out. But I thought maybe mesenteric torsion, hence the purple, inflamed intestines. Can a dog get mesenteric torsion without any signs of bloat?? Could this have been a hereditry problem??

My partner and i are absoltely devastated. Everytime i think of her, i bawl my eyes out. She died in my partner arms. He said he never ever wants another shepherd because he is so devestated by the loss of his companion. There were so many things we were going to do together and couldnt wait until summer to take her out to the ski dam and now wel never get the chance.

I am going to ring the breeder once i get back to australia. Im not sure what to say. Please help, need opinions if you have had a similar thing happen or on what to say to the breeder.

Think i will also post this in the breed forum in case its something that happens more frequently in shepherds.

Ive attached a photo of Eva, from about a month before she died to show how healthy and happy she looks.

[Tapua]

I am so so sorry for you loss - totally devistating - I have no idea what could cause this conditiona nd wouldnt like to suggest. Please accept my sincere condolenses however.I know you are OS but you might want to ring or email the breeder asap about this.

[Everythings Shiny]

My farrier lost his beloved border collie girl with a similar type of thing a few months ago. Still have never found out what killed her. Lab results were inconclusive.

*hugs*

Edited September 4, 2011 by Everythings Shiny

[Ltiger773]

Thanks for your condolences. Im glad i've found this site. Its good to talk to other people who are dog lovers and might be able to help.

I will be back in australia in 10 days time and will ring the breeder then. Im not permanently overseas but work a 28 on/14 day off roster fly back to australia. Im not a fan of using email for those sort of things because i really want to discuss it with the breeder and email feels a little impersonal even though im sure email would be easier than me bawling my eyes out over the phone.

It was so sudden, probly 30 to 40 min from when they realised she was missing and her dying. Of course it was later at night too and they had to wait for the vet to get to the clinic but i doubt there would have been much the vet could have done anyway. Its devastating because it was so sudden and unexpected at only 8 months old. And i know it would have been a horrible painful death. Poor girl, even thou i wasnt home with her all the time, i know she wont be there when i get back and i miss her.

[mish13]

Big hugs to you both, that would be so hard to take when your dog was only a puppy still.

One thing comes to mind could she have eaten anything like snail bait, have you put any new plants in? Friends of mine lost a young dog when they got some new plants from a nursery and they didn't know they had a toxic fertiliser on them. They had a sheltie that ate the plant and was dead within hours. I hope you find out what happened.

[Ltiger773]

Well im not 100% sure but i doubt it. We didnt use snail or mouse bait and dont have much of a garden in general. And i think she died too quickly for that to have been it. She was exceptionally lazy and non destructive. She had a much loved sqeaky duck that she had since she was a baby puppy and it was still going after 8 months (i buried it with her so she could have it in heaven). Not the sort of dog who ate anything out of the garden or dug holes even. If anything one of the other dogs she was with would have gotten sick because she destroys everything.

[zenchel]

Has anyone else had an experience like this. The vets were unsure of what killed her. They thought maybe a blood disorder since she appeared to bleed out. But I thought maybe mesenteric torsion, hence the purple, inflamed intestines. Can a dog get mesenteric torsion without any signs of bloat?? Could this have been a hereditry problem??

I'm so sorry that you lost Eva like this - it must be devastating. I only wanted to tell you of my experience with mesenteric torsion, to let you know how unexpected and rapid it can be. I had a 14 month old Labrador boarding with me - she had stayed with me twice before. First thing in the morning she seemed a little off colour - she had brought up maybe a handful of undigested dry from the meal the night before. No diarrhoea, no bloating. I brought her into my house and put her in a crate to observe her. She didn't seem too bad, however I noticed that she has chewed bits of the end of a towel I had in the crate with her. It was a Saturday (naturally ) so I took her to the vet for safety's sake. He decided to keep her overnight for observation, also did bloods. During the afternoon I found out from the emergency contact person that Momo had not long previously had surgery for a foreign object removal. I wondered if this was the problem? Anyway the vet rang first thing next morning to say "I've got bad news" and I said "oh no, she's swallowed part of the towel and has to have surgery" - "no, she died overnight"......

I was horrified, of course. One owner was in Japan , the other in Holland - I took the step of authorising an autopsy, even though I was aware that some people are not in favour of doing one, however I needed to know what had happened. It turned out to be mesenteric torsion, not related to the previous surgery - it just happened

So I guess what I'm saying is that it can happen out of the blue, to young healthy dogs; no signs of bloat. You mentioned a lot of blood - I wonder if Eva was a bleeder, although there shouldn't be any GSD's bred with haemophilia these days. Ask the vet if you can pass the breeder on to him to discuss it - he will need your permission to discuss Eva with anybody else. It will hopefully help the breeder understand what happened if they can talk to the vet. I've also heard a specialist vet say that mesenteric torsion is a vet's nightmare - as soon as any symptoms show, it's too late to do anything.

Sorry for you and your partner.

Sylvia

[Ltiger773]

Yeh it was so devastating. My partner was so unhappy without her that he went to the pound and picked up two dogs so he had some doggy friends. Im sure they will thank us for it and probly live to a ripe old age. I havent met them yet.

Sorry about your friend's lab too. Eva didnt even seem off colour, my partner was with her 20min before and she was her normal self. No vomit, no diarrhoea, no bloat nothing. I did see when i was researching that bloody diarrhoea can happen with mesenteric torsion so i wonder if the "pool of blood" they found was that. It is kinda good (though not really) hearing from someone else who went through this as there is always that part of you that thinks was there something i did wrong to make this happen. But really there is nothing you can do, i mean the lab was at the vets and she still died so there really isnt much chance of them surviving. How horrible having to tell the owners. I'll go and see the vet when i get home and ask for the report. Its hard because i was overseas when it happened so have had to get others to ring up for me and havent really had a first hand account except from my devastated partner who probably wasnt that clear headed at the time.

Yeh i have read up about the bleeders too and no there shouldn't be any breeding in australia. Also i think that the females are usually carriers rather than haemophilliacs. Usually the males are the ones that get it. I will talk to the vet and they should agree to talking to the breeder. The breeder was really nice and really cared about the dogs so im sure she will want to talk to the vet.

Thanks for writing up your experience Sylvia. It helps to hear that there wasnt anything i could do.

[persephone]

I am so sorry you lost your girl, and sorry your partner is home alone.... it seems to me though,, having a pup die of causes unknown .. there is NO way I would immediately be bringing new dogs onto the property and possibly risk their health too.. apologies if that sounds harsh.... Hopefully blood test etc will show a cause of death, so you know. Take care.

[Ltiger773]

Well technically there was two other dogs living there. Housemates dogs. But Eva was my partners girl and best mate. And if anything one of the housemates dogs would have been morely likely to die from something environment related because she gets into everything, destroys plants, anything out doors that is chewable, digs holes, eats everything. Its an oldish corgi something cross and the most destructive dog ive ever laid eyes on. Needless to say we are looking to buy a house with a few acres at the moment so wont be a worry then anyway. Thanks for your thoughts : )

[Scales of Justice]

They found her in a pool of blood. They tried to get her to a vet but 10min later she was dead. The vet opened her up and said that her intestines looked quite purple and inflamed, like they were dying. She had some small bones in her intestines which is fairly normal i think,

So sorry for your loss. My vet told me that he has done more operations on removal of chicken necks in the intestines than he cares to mention. I would have high suspicions. I do not believe it will be a bleeding disease.

[Scales of Justice]

They found her in a pool of blood. They tried to get her to a vet but 10min later she was dead. The vet opened her up and said that her intestines looked quite purple and inflamed, like they were dying. She had some small bones in her intestines which is fairly normal i think,

So sorry for your loss. My vet told me that he has done more operations on removal of chicken necks in the intestines than he cares to mention. I would have high suspicions. I do not believe it will be a bleeding disease.

Perhaps black snake??

[JulesP]

Snail bait is very quick. My dog was gone in a couple of hours. But it doesn't cause bleeding. Rat bait causes bleeding.

Very sorry you lost your pup.

[Sandra777]

So sorry for your loss, it's especially hard to lose a young dog

I would tend to agree with Scales of Justice - snake bite?

I have a bitch at the vet right now who was bitten by a black snake on Thursday and the vet had a dog die on their table in the early hours of Thursday morning from snake bite so they're certainly around.

[Ltiger773]

Yeh the vets said there didnt appear to be anything that wasn't what they would call "normal" in her intestines. She hadnt had any food since breakfast and when they went out looking for her, it was for dinner.

It couldnt have been a snake. The place where i live is lucky to reach 5 degrees during winter and they would be well and truely asleep. We didnt use any baits around the house because of the dogs. The only way she could have gotten rat bait is if one ran from a neighbours places and she managed to catch it (doubtful as she was pretty slow in terms of getting from a stop to full speed and extremely typical big puppy clumsy) Im really not sure what it was. Thanks for all your ideas and thoughts.

[Nekhbet]

secondary poisoning can occur since poisoned rats will be slow and stumbling. If they are using one feed one kill baits it will easily poison a shepherd.

Did they do blood tests?

[Jumabaar]

German Shepherds may suffer from a disease known as Haemophillia A. In these dogs there is insufficient amounts of the clotting factor 8 and it is possible for dog to bleed out at any age. It is uncommon for it to show up in female puppies as it is sex linked and usually only seen in males

It should be possible for the breeder to test for this and (von willerbrands factor) to ensure their dogs are not carriers of these genes to preserve their lines. I do not think von willerbrands of Haemophillia B are common in GS but are also differentials for dogs that bleed out.

I am in no way saying this is what happened but when you let your breeder know about the differential diagnosis these should be included- they are testable and can offer the breeder great peace of mind about preventing this happening to any future puppy owners.

My condolences for your loss- make sure that your partner knows that it is perfectly normal to grieve, and you too!

[poodlefan]

I'm sorry for the loss of your dog. Before you contact her breeder, you may wish to reflect on the following;

* The necropsy was inconclusive. There is no evidence to suggest that there was something 'wrong' with her. Poisoning or snakebite ARE possible causes of death because the vet didn't rule them out. Nearly all snake venom impacts on the blood. Several venoms are noted to cause haemorrhaging.

* Snakes are active in August - on any sunny afternoon. This was an unusually mild winter. You clearly live in a rural or semi rural area. It's possible.

* The tone of your opening post was (whether you intended it or not) suggesting that your girl is dead because there was something 'wrong' with her. You have no evidence of that. She didn't literally 'drop dead' as you suggest. Something happened and she either sought shelter or went under your house for a reason.

* Go lightly when you ring the breeder. This will be bad news for them too.

Edited September 4, 2011 by poodlefan

[Scales of Justice]

Wolfen,

It is VERY unlikely to be haemophilia. Haemophilia has never been common in the GSD in Australia and in the past the GSDCA required all sires to be haemophilia tested. As there has been little evidence of haemophilia in recent years these rules were relaxed by the GSDCA which now only requires imported males and sons of imported bitches to be tested.

In any case with haemophilia in the GSD, females are carriers and males are affected. In this case this female would not be affected, but would be a carrier if it were Haemophilia - so obviously it is not Haemophilia.

I agree totally with Poodlefan whose post is very sensible. It is far more likely to be an "environmental" problem rather than anything that has a genetic cause.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Scales of Justice

[Scales of Justice]

Deleted - double post

Edited September 5, 2011 by Scales of Justice