Maddy27 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Hey there people. I would have posted in the breeders forum but I'm too new. In March next year I am looking at importing two Rottweilers. A boy, and a girl, completely unrelated. I intend to use the boy, health clearances depending, as a stud later on to my bitch, also health clearances depending. They come from magnificent lines and I'm really excited about importing these lines to NZ. However I will only have the facilities two cater to the girl (already have two other dogs) and so am wondering about the boy. I can either pass on him and just bring the girl back, or I can find a co owner over here in NZ to house and care for him. I dont know how to go about this, especially as I feel the deal I want to offer is probably ridiculously unreasonable: I'll pay for the dog, I'll import him, I'll pay for his medical insurance, and in return I expect the co owner not to breed from him without my strict permission, I expect to use him for shows, I expect the co owner to allow my bitch/es on site for servicing. I also want to write into the contract that if at any point I feel the dog is not being cared for to the highest expectations, I can remove him. All of this seems like a bit of an unreasonable deal to me? What are your thoughts? How would you approach this situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andisa Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 (edited) Good luck - maybe this would suit someone but personally I would not get involved with this type of situation. I think you are setting yourself up to get burnt bad - I certainly would not be allowing anyone else to be caring for a dog I am legally responsible for - especially a Rottweiler.. Each to their own.. eta: and I sure would not be taking on a dog that I thought would be removed from me for what ever reason - I just would not do it - sorry.. Many breeder do co ownership without issues - but they don't all work out. Edited September 3, 2011 by Andisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 import semen after your girl has proven herself in the ring and with the health tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Hey there people. I would have posted in the breeders forum but I'm too new. In March next year I am looking at importing two Rottweilers. A boy, and a girl, completely unrelated. I intend to use the boy, health clearances depending, as a stud later on to my bitch, also health clearances depending. They come from magnificent lines and I'm really excited about importing these lines to NZ. However I will only have the facilities two cater to the girl (already have two other dogs) and so am wondering about the boy. I can either pass on him and just bring the girl back, or I can find a co owner over here in NZ to house and care for him. I dont know how to go about this, especially as I feel the deal I want to offer is probably ridiculously unreasonable: I'll pay for the dog, I'll import him, I'll pay for his medical insurance, and in return I expect the co owner not to breed from him without my strict permission, I expect to use him for shows, I expect the co owner to allow my bitch/es on site for servicing. I also want to write into the contract that if at any point I feel the dog is not being cared for to the highest expectations, I can remove him. All of this seems like a bit of an unreasonable deal to me? What are your thoughts? How would you approach this situation? Firstly good luck in your venture and I wish you all very best. But I get the feeling that you may not be well versed in the dog world, I am just picking up on a few things you have written....like.....I am bringing a boy and a girl, when most of us would say ....dog and bitch. You also say they will be two unrelated, well....... most of us would want them related in some way to carry on the line. I am just concerned that you may be getting yourself into something that you may not be fully aware of. Do you have a person that is reliable that could help and advise you. I may be reading your post entirely wrong,(and I hope I am) but I just don't want to see any person go into a venture like this without being fully versed, as we all know how costly it can be. If you do go ahead with the imports I would be keeping them with me at all times, how about putting the dogs you already have out with foster familys with written agreements as to their breeding and wellfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 The other person wouldn't be the owner of the dog, you would be. They would just provide the residential address. I would expect you would cover ALL the dogs costs including food, bedding, toys etc, if you want to have that much control over a dog living with someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy27 Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 Firstly good luck in your venture and I wish you all very best. But I get the feeling that you may not be well versed in the dog world, I am just picking up on a few things you have written....like.....I am bringing a boy and a girl, when most of us would say ....dog and bitch. You also say they will be two unrelated, well....... most of us would want them related in some way to carry on the line. I am just concerned that you may be getting yourself into something that you may not be fully aware of. Do you have a person that is reliable that could help and advise you. I may be reading your post entirely wrong,(and I hope I am) but I just don't want to see any person go into a venture like this without being fully versed, as we all know how costly it can be. If you do go ahead with the imports I would be keeping them with me at all times, how about putting the dogs you already have out with foster familys with written agreements as to their breeding and wellfare. Hey there Oakway, you are entirely correct, I have not bred before. I am new to the game. I have done a bit of showing and am to some degree quite involved with the world of dogs (obedience, conformation training, I have a dog chiro, private trainer, hydro therapist). I have researched this fully and intend to do my very best. I understand the perils of BYB's and intend to make sure my dogs arte (a) titled (b) health clearenced ( hips, elbows, heart, eyes, dental) © rated well in specialty shows (d) of acceptable age (probably let the bitch go to pup on her second heat after she's two provided she's met all the relative requirements) and (e) I want the dogs to be something Im proud to breed, something I feel will do the Rottweiler breed a service. I will place puppies only in very carefuly chosen homes, and I will generally do everything I can to improve the Rottweiler breed. A little history on me: I currently own two bitches. My older girl is 5 now, I got her at 8 weeks old and she is a magnificent girl. She unfortunately doesnt have what it takes to go in ring (light eyes, to much of a doggy appearance, and apart from everything I had her spayed at 2 years old). Maddy is lovely dog, greatwith my son, and my wife, and a loving, calm, placid member of our family. She ruptured both cruciates at two and I had TTA's performed on both legs at Massey university, she has had arthritis since and attends hydrotherapy. I also feed her Orijen with a supplement that contains, among other things, glucosamine, condroiton, and omega 3 and 6. Maddy has done very well with obedience in the past however I knew from the time she was a year old she would not make a good show dog, therefore I spayed her and let her live as a pet. My younger girl is 8 months, her name is Kandy. I purchased Kandy with the intention of showing and possibly breeding her. However recently I had her Penn Hip scores done. They have come back looking rather bad. I have had limited success with her, so far she has been showing a very short time but 4 X puppy of breed. I intend to keep showing her and have her scores done again before she's two at which stage if they are still poor, I will spay her aswell. Kandy is fed Orijen LBP and also has the supplement that Maddy has. She attend conformation training on wednesdays at the NZKC, she also goes to obedience on tuesdays, once a week she sees a private trainer and she sees a chiro once a month. I have researched breeding and showing quite extensively and I believe that it could be appropriate for me as (a) I earn a reasonable amount of money (b) I work rather good hours, 4 days on 4 days off 12 hour shifts © I have a stay at home wife (d) we live on a reasonable amount of land in a semi rural setting. I understand the time and effort involved, I understand that making a profit is unlikely, I understand that during the birth stage I will need to take time off work. I have a large station wagon with a caged back, I have started building kennels and runs out the back of my property (runs are 5 meters long by 2 meters wide, kennels will be insulated and possibly have a panel heater inside), I have a large double garage that could easily have a whelping box inside with heat lamp etc. I do not intend to make a profit, I intend to breed beautiful Rottweiler puppies that can go on to make great ambassadors for the breed. I dont want huge rotties. I dont want "tough" rotties. I want rotties that have incredible temperaments, that can be housed with children, cats, other dogs, etc. Rotties that will go into the ring and do well. I know nobody likes a new breeder on the scene however I have researched this, and I am entering with the best intentions. As far as the co owner of the stud, we would come to some form of arrangement, i.e. we both use the stud to service our bitches (provided the other bitch has her health clearances). I would very much doubt I would ever reposess the dog unless I turned up and found the dog in unfavourable conditions (I think we all know what I mean, the term BYB comes to mind). I am starting to think importing semen might be the best option, however. Thankyou for all the responses, please dont jump on me assuming I will just be another BYB as I intend to do everything in my power to do this properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMaddy Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 So why are you looking at importing a dog and bitch as opposed to getting them here? Are you looking at importing them as youngsters before they have passed health checks? If so, this is a huge risk, and you could well end up with 2 very expensive pets! What appeals to you about this particular dog and bitch you're looking at? Perhaps you would be better of, at this stage, getting another locallly (as in Australia or NZ) bred bitch of show quality to show, and later on breed. This would help you to establish more contacts within the breed, and you may well find someone down the track who is after this sort of arrangement (and I think you'll find the majority of reputable breeders willing to do so would only consider it if they knew the other owner quite well). To me it sounds like what you are considering doing requires a lot more contacts within the dog, and more specifically, rottweiler world than you currently have. And if you want to be able to post in the breeders forum, you need a prefix and to pm Luke with it so he can make it possible for you to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy27 Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 Hey missmaddy. I am looking at importing from Aus to NZ as this requires no quarantine time. I really dont want puppies to have to spend time in quarantine, especially during a critical point of development. I am importing because both of the dogs come from brilliant lines, absolutely incredible lines. The parents, the grand parents, and the great grand parents all have their health checks and have passed with good marks. I have checked relatives (cousins etc) out on the US OFA site and they all have good results. Hence I hope that the pup's will arrive and go on to be good scoring dogs. The family is full of international champions. The mum is V Rated. The breeder strikes me as very reliable, professional. He told me to come over and spend a week with the dogs and really judge thoroughly which dog/bitch I would like. I have first pick of the litters. If...after all this...the pups have bad scores, I will be pissed off, no doubt, but I'll accept that I have very expensive pets. I have a few contacts in the Rott world, not many granted, but a few. I have not bothered asking around yet because I want to work out the details of what is a reasonable agreement first before I offend someone with a proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 I'm not a breeder, and with the shrinking purebred dog numbers I think you sound like a great candidate. If everyone had to pass the 1000 point checklist that some people expect then the purebred dogs would be shrinking at an even faster rate. You sound responsible, passionate, well equiped with land/time/resources, know what your goals are and experience? well everyone has to start somewhere!! Not one breeder was ever born experienced. Its your money risking importing an immature bitch/dog, but thats completely your choice. On your original question - I really love my breed, and would LOVE to see more people consider one from good lines, and I think I have found a happy medium. My breeder and I are fantastic friends, and we are going to do 'breeder terms' on the most outstanding male puppy, who is currently 6 weeks old. I have him as a pet/ competition dog, and then she gets to produce the nicest puppies from him. Suits my goal of contributing to improving the temperament, seeing more in dog sports, and I dont have to worry about getting attached to all the puppies! If the nationals were on, and it coincided with a bitch in season, we have already discussed that the competitions take priority. She is just as keen to see him do well, and she only mates about 4 bitches a year. I suppose the difference between what your proposing and what I am doing is that we are already good friends, have similar goals and its suits both of us completely. We have agreed that if he is studded to outside bitches then a) she makes sure its a suitable cross and b) it fits in around my competitions. I am also not paying a purchase price and all council/microchip registration will be in my name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Do you have any family who want a pet Rott? I have a Brittany bitch and because I love my agility and obedience so much I want my competition dogs 5 years apart, so the pup comes in when the older dog is at their 'prime' and no longer requiring the intensive level of training. So for her maiden litter (should she pass health checks) the pick will be going to my mum or my brother (depending if it's a boy or a girl) so I can show it, health score, check out temperament and all going well have another option for breeding with in the future. Unfortunately unless you are prepared to re-home dogs that you are done with breeding/showing or don't quite make the grade you will get over-dogged if you don't find people out there who can help out. Could you consider using an AI from the dog's sire or even the dog in the future if everything works out with your bitch. And even then, will you have room to keep a pup (or two) from any litters, or will you be up against the same obstacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 My suggestion would be to get your chosen bitch ... then use semen from a sire of the same lines as the dog you like ... or even him, if he is available at the time I don't know much about co-ownership.. but I think there are way too many things to go wrong with the sort of arrangement you propose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Hi, Glad to hear you are being so sensibile over the matter. Keep that up and should go a long way. Although I must admit that when you said Import "I" thought you may have ment Europe or USA. Some lovely Rotties her in Aust and some breeders to go along with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Although I must admit that when you said Import "I" thought you may have ment Europe or USA. same here! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMaddy Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 What about if you just get the bitch for now and build up your contacts by showing her before looking into a male? If the male you like turns out to be suitable as a stud dog once mature, you should be able to get semen from him sent over to you once your bitch is ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy27 Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 I am leaning towards that direction, I must admit, after reading everyones posts. I'm glad everyones not jumping on me and accusing me of being a BYB. I intend to do the very best I can, and am 100% willing to neuter/spay the dog/s if they turn out to be anything less than very healthy CH's. The litter is not due until January. I probably could have gotten a puppy sooner but I would rather wait for the "right" dog. Also I have to build the kennels and finish the runs. I have checked with the neighbours as to wether they would have an issue with me having multiple dogs, and they all say it's fine as my dogs NEVER bark and there hasnt been a single issue on the property ever. We have 5 foot fences all the way round, aswell as a double garage that is empty and never has cars in it. When we first moved in I went and introduced myself to all the neighbors and gave them our phone number, I told them that if my dogs ever bark or do anything that annoys them in any way, feel free to phone me and I will rectify the issue immediately. I have a good relationship with our local animal control, and they have also said they would be happy to issue me with a permit to own multiple dogs. I have done my research. Lots and lots of research. I am extremely impressed with the breeder over in Aus and am very impressed with his bloodlines. We are members of multiple dog clubs over here (working, obedience, Rottweiler etc). The only thing I am slightly hesitant of is getting home at 6 pm after leaving home at 4:15 in the morning, and having to go out and do two seperate walks (Im not small but even I know I couldnt handle multiple Rottweilers!). I will issue all my puppies with a typical contract: No breeding without my consent (I check health scores of potential mate). If the dog ever needs to be rehomed they talk to me first. If the dog develops hip displacia etc I will refund (wont replace puppy as I plan to only do one breeding per year, if that). Wont supply more than one puppy at a time, unless to an experienced breeder. I am importing from Aus because our lines in NZ are so few I'd like to bring in fresh lines, I also believe this will make my puppies more "salable" to fellow breeders/showers. Inevitablue: that is exactly the sort of arrangement I would be looking at. The co owners would own the dog for the most part, and if they wanted to show it...GREAT, if not I would show it. I would offer them the dog free of charge (obviously I'd be extremely picky about who would be offered this) on the condition I could bring my bitch around for servicing. Rallyvalley: I have my mums place for overflow dogs, however I would attempt to keep my numbers low (when Maddy passes she wont be replaced, leaving me with two bitches, as the new puppy reaches 5/6ish I would keep a pup from her last litter and hold off on breeding again until the puppy was 2 and had her CH title) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy27 Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 Also, I have mentioned CH titles alot here, however I would be attempting to get the puppy her working titles aswell. The puppy will be enlisted in obedience training too. I will be breeding for temperament in a big way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) Well done for putting so much thought into this. The dog world needs new folk who have their breed at heart. Ditto what others have said. I would be starting with the bitch and go from there. You are really boxing yourself in if you get a male anyway and there is no guarantee when he matures he is going to be the right dog either health-wise or structurally for your girl. Your better option is to get the bitch and then choose a mate when she is more mature. You can always import frozen semen from the same lines, or you may find something that suits your bitch elsewhere. Finding someone to co-own on the terms you mention is fraught with issues and it can be hard enough finding good folks to co-own at the best of times. If you really want the male too, you would be better off setting yourself up to be able to keep both dogs and bitches on your property. But as mentioned, IMO you would be better off starting with just the bitch and proceeding from there. Edited September 4, 2011 by espinay2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 I co own an imported male and I will never do it again. Way too many issues. I agree with a lot of the others, get a nice bitch, see how she turns out and import semen later on. Good luck :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 I think it's very nice of you to refund if the puppies gey hip dysplasia and also a little naive. but I do hope you realise that in large breeds dogs hd is unfortunately quite common and multifactorial meaning that even if you breed dog with only 0/0 scores, puppies can still get hd. If not given good nutrition and appropriate exercise puppies can get hd which would be not your fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 I co own an imported male and I will never do it again. Way too many issues. Good luck :D Can I ask if the dog is co owned between 2 breeders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now