Tassie Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 My hope is that I don't get pulled into the lake by Em. My expectation is that I probably will Been out all day tracking training (longer delays on tracks now), so just saw this. Glad I didn't have a moutful of coffee at the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brennan's Mum Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Brennan is walked on a head collar, however in the next few months I am looking at switching her to a Prong ( will be doing K9 Pro's Loose Leash Walking DLP). Our walk is for fun and exercise. Brennan walk at my left side, neither in front or behind me. I like a loose leash. When I stop moving I like her to sit. She does not have 'free permission' to sniff trees/ grass etc-- instead I use sniffing her environment as a reward for good walking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Love Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 Brennan is walked on a head collar, however in the next few months I am looking at switching her to a Prong ( will be doing K9 Pro's Loose Leash Walking DLP). Our walk is for fun and exercise. Brennan walk at my left side, neither in front or behind me. I like a loose leash. When I stop moving I like her to sit. She does not have 'free permission' to sniff trees/ grass etc-- instead I use sniffing her environment as a reward for good walking. Yeah, see I think we are losing the fun bit!!! I think I will do the training how they want till the course finishes, but be more relaxed (but still in control - I hope!) for our normal walks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy82 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 My dogs will heel when I ask them to, but usually I just let them run around and sniff everything and I don't care if they pull either (they are small, so it doesn't matter). Only one of them pulls and runs around everywhere, and the other one walks ahead of me on a loose leash and only occasionally stops to sniff something. I usually also have them on a long line so for part of the walk they enjoy extra freedom. I did seriously consider teaching them to walk next to me and not stop to sniff etc, but after thinking about it I realised I would enjoy our walk more if I saw that they were enjoying sniffing and running around, so I ended up not bothering. I definitely would want any dog to be able to heel on cue though, because sometimes you need them to. If you did want to teach them to walk next to you, shorten the leash, reward profusely while the dog is next to you. If it moves in front or the leash goes tight, stop, wait for the dog to stop, then turn around and do a loop to bring the dog back next to you (you wait for the dog to stop because you are very gently getting it back into position, not jerking it around as punishment). Repeat as needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfthewords Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 It's not uncommon for me to walk all 4 of our dogs at once. All I ask of them is that they stay on their designated side (usually 2 on either one), don't pull and stay next to or behind me. They are allowed to sniff at random intervals when I stop, as I don't like the idea of them walking with a full bladder. Plus they know that when they're allowed to sniff it's a good idea to empty their bowels/bladders as they don't know when they'll get the next chance. I always get asked how I keep four dogs under control and heeling, but they've never misbehaved on walks and I think the arrangement is pretty fair! None are big pullers or car chasers but if we see a cat I sometimes have to maneuver them around. ;) We go to an offleash area on just about every walk, so they know that good walking = reward at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I never ask my dog to "heel" during a walk. It is IMO a very formal, precise position reserved for training and competing only. Seriously?? You don't ever practise a heel when actually out on a walk? It seems like an ideal situation to practise it to me. I call Kivi in regularly wherever we are for a little stint of heeling here and there. He loves it. That's assuming he has actually left heel in the first place. He seems to think he can make me cue a heel by wrapping himself around my left leg while we're walking until I'm tripping over him. I wonder how he got that idea? :p Plus, a heel is super useful out on walks when the footpath is crowded or a bike/pram is coming through. I have 'hang about' as well, which means come to my nearest side, but since we taught him heel we don't use it much anymore. We don't walk on leash much, but when we do my expectation is simply that they will remain as attentive as they are off leash and walk on a loose leash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I used to be really strict with Mindy when she was a potential guide dog in training- walking on the left side, slightly ahead of me, no sniffing, has to look forward, must stop at roads, indicate stairs etc. Now I'm way more relaxed, but its lead her to develop bad habits To be totally honest though I don't really mind if a dog pulls me, I would much rather that than lagging behind. I have now fixed her bad walking on lead with help from k9pro but I doubt she'll ever be as good as when she was in training. Though, that wasn't what I'd call "loose leash walking" either as the dog was encouraged to lead the handler and therefore there was some tension on the leash. She is actually MUCH better if I'm jogging with her- doesn't try to sniff or cross behind me (which she sometimes does if we are just walking). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I never ask my dog to "heel" during a walk. It is IMO a very formal, precise position reserved for training and competing only. Seriously?? You don't ever practise a heel when actually out on a walk? It seems like an ideal situation to practise it to me. I call Kivi in regularly wherever we are for a little stint of heeling here and there. He loves it. That's assuming he has actually left heel in the first place. He seems to think he can make me cue a heel by wrapping himself around my left leg while we're walking until I'm tripping over him. I wonder how he got that idea? :p Plus, a heel is super useful out on walks when the footpath is crowded or a bike/pram is coming through. I have 'hang about' as well, which means come to my nearest side, but since we taught him heel we don't use it much anymore. We don't walk on leash much, but when we do my expectation is simply that they will remain as attentive as they are off leash and walk on a loose leash. I never do heel training on walks after they know heel. All walks as pups are training not walking though. The dogs regularly offer nice bouncy heeling which is cute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I never ask my dog to "heel" during a walk. It is IMO a very formal, precise position reserved for training and competing only. Seriously?? You don't ever practise a heel when actually out on a walk? It seems like an ideal situation to practise it to me. I call Kivi in regularly wherever we are for a little stint of heeling here and there. He loves it. That's assuming he has actually left heel in the first place. He seems to think he can make me cue a heel by wrapping himself around my left leg while we're walking until I'm tripping over him. I wonder how he got that idea? :p Plus, a heel is super useful out on walks when the footpath is crowded or a bike/pram is coming through. I have 'hang about' as well, which means come to my nearest side, but since we taught him heel we don't use it much anymore. We don't walk on leash much, but when we do my expectation is simply that they will remain as attentive as they are off leash and walk on a loose leash. Yes seriously. My idea of a competition heel is very flashy, prancy, head right up and in perfect position, no forging or lagging (well this is what we aim for anyway), NOT practical for walks and not something I wish to dull by over-use. The command for this is "heel" What I do have for walks is an informal heel, which is close to my left side and holding loose eye contact as we pass something distracting. The command for this is my dogs name and/or "watch". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 I am intrigued by this idea that animated behaviours can be dulled by overuse. It's not the first time I've heard it. Did you know it kind of runs against learning theory? Not that that means it can't happen, of course, for various reasons. I've only really seen my dogs get more animated performing a behaviour the more they practise it. For the purpose of behavioural fluency, I practise heeling and other behaviours anywhere and everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Depends on the dog Corvus.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 I never ask my dogs to heel on our daily walks either. Our walks are informal and they are allowed to sniff, pee and explore. When I am walking them both together the rules are a bit stricter but only things like they mustn't cross over in front or behind, or stop dead in their tracks, etc. Heeling to me is a very precise behaviour. In particular when I say "heel" I want my dogs unbroken eye contact which isn't practical on daily walks -- my young dog offers this behaviour often and I try snap her out of it as I am worried she will trip If I want them right in at my side while going past traffic or across a road, I shorten their leash. If I want to practice heelwork I stop somewhere like the oval and do it there, but I always let them know that it is training rather than walkies time. I don't care what other people do, they can ask their dogs to heel the whole way if they want, but I never will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Same here! No way am I going to muck around with my competition heelwork on an informal walk. That's not to say I don't have it if I need it, I do, I just don't see the need to practice it out of context. I can't imagine a dressage rider practicing side passes etc on a bush walk...same for the dogs. IMO Yes seriously.My idea of a competition heel is very flashy, prancy, head right up and in perfect position, no forging or lagging (well this is what we aim for anyway), NOT practical for walks and not something I wish to dull by over-use. The command for this is "heel" What I do have for walks is an informal heel, which is close to my left side and holding loose eye contact as we pass something distracting. The command for this is my dogs name and/or "watch". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 No hard and fast rules here. The walk is for his enjoyment and he has always been a dog to stick his nose down and sniff - gives him some nice mental stimulation along with the physical exertion. So he's allowed to sniff and go to the toilet but I don't stop for him. He is not allowed to pee against fences/ property. Not allowed to pull but can go to the end of the lead (which is about 6 foot). I will call him to heel if we're passing people and then release him. Has to sit at curbs. We'll generally do some random obedience exercises somewhere along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Heeling to me is a very precise behaviour. In particular when I say "heel" I want my dogs unbroken eye contact which isn't practical on daily walks It is perfectly practical in short stints for practise. Kivi thinks it's practical for quite long stints. I'm not sure how he avoids tripping over, particularly given he's not the most graceful and nimble of dogs. My dogs get to walk for fun, but doszens of short training stints are part of that fun. If I don't make them happen the dogs usually try themselves. Sorry, I'm not trying to be inflammatory, I'm just genuinely intrigued by this "never" thing. I honestly look for situations where I have never asked for a behaviour and add it to the top of the list of places to next drop that particular cue. Because of aiming for fluency rather than proficiency. Fluent behaviours are more reliable, but more to the point, I love testing my dogs' understanding of a cue. It's my favourite bit of training. One time OH cued Erik to roll over while he was swimming and he actually tried to do it. He would have pulled it off if his method of rolling involved more twist in his body like Kivi's does. I freaking love that level of fluency. It's just good fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Heeling to me is a very precise behaviour. In particular when I say "heel" I want my dogs unbroken eye contact which isn't practical on daily walks It is perfectly practical in short stints for practise. Kivi thinks it's practical for quite long stints. I'm not sure how he avoids tripping over, particularly given he's not the most graceful and nimble of dogs. My dogs get to walk for fun, but doszens of short training stints are part of that fun. If I don't make them happen the dogs usually try themselves. Sorry, I'm not trying to be inflammatory, I'm just genuinely intrigued by this "never" thing. I honestly look for situations where I have never asked for a behaviour and add it to the top of the list of places to next drop that particular cue. Because of aiming for fluency rather than proficiency. Fluent behaviours are more reliable, but more to the point, I love testing my dogs' understanding of a cue. It's my favourite bit of training. One time OH cued Erik to roll over while he was swimming and he actually tried to do it. He would have pulled it off if his method of rolling involved more twist in his body like Kivi's does. I freaking love that level of fluency. It's just good fun. It's not practical for me My dog understands what heel means. She would do it if I asked her to. I just don't ask in the middle of a daily walk. As I say, I don't mind if you do, but we don't need to so we don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Personally I wouldn't ask for a "heel" on a walk because we are still at the stage that requires a fairly high reward rate for my dog do an acceptable heel position (I also require a very animated, bouncy trot with 100% eye contact). I do not carry lots of treats or toys on our regular "relaxing" walks. We are also not at the stage where she can heel under high distraction. I don't see the benefit (in her case) of setting her up for failure... Maybe if she was a titled obedience dog with a fantastic competition heel under high distraction, then I could ask her for heel on a walk, but we are just not at that level yet. I have a "look" command that I use if I need her to do a loose heel, paying attention to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 (edited) both mine go through stages of "offering" heelwork on normal walks. Ness if I have food on me and Kenz will if she is hoping I might produce a toy or just bored . I would say mine are fluent - if I asked they would. If I wanted to "test" a behavior in a particular situation then I would set up one in order to test it. I guess it comes down to whether you plan a session or whether you just run one for the sake of it. I also normally walk both dogs together so it would be impractical to try and get them to both heel because it would mean they couldn't be in 100% accurate position. ETA. I forgot to add the amount of physical stress the dog puts their body under during a prancy animated full eye contact heel position isn't something I would want to subject my dog to for extended periods of time on a normal walk. Its an unnatural position for the dog to hold and requires a level of physical stamina in order to achieve it. Edited September 3, 2011 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 It all depends on what you want the end result to be. As you say, you aren't after proficiency...when you are trialling you really do and you need to be very precise. Until you have trialled in competition without any of the aids we use in training you are not in a position to understand the difference. Heeling to me is a very precise behaviour. In particular when I say "heel" I want my dogs unbroken eye contact which isn't practical on daily walks It is perfectly practical in short stints for practise. Kivi thinks it's practical for quite long stints. I'm not sure how he avoids tripping over, particularly given he's not the most graceful and nimble of dogs. My dogs get to walk for fun, but doszens of short training stints are part of that fun. If I don't make them happen the dogs usually try themselves. Sorry, I'm not trying to be inflammatory, I'm just genuinely intrigued by this "never" thing. I honestly look for situations where I have never asked for a behaviour and add it to the top of the list of places to next drop that particular cue. Because of aiming for fluency rather than proficiency. Fluent behaviours are more reliable, but more to the point, I love testing my dogs' understanding of a cue. It's my favourite bit of training. One time OH cued Erik to roll over while he was swimming and he actually tried to do it. He would have pulled it off if his method of rolling involved more twist in his body like Kivi's does. I freaking love that level of fluency. It's just good fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 I just ask for my 2 to be obedient. We stop, sit & wait at each curb, & usually when somebody passed us. They both walk on my left side, Sonny on the outside & Stella about 6 inches away along side him,she will get closer to him if she can she has always just slotted herself in there for some reason. Most of the time on loose leads.I don't mind if they stop to relieve themselves. Off-lead, Sonny never wanders more than 10 feet away from me, Stella has started to wonder a bit more to investigate things but I have her "check-in" with me lots then off she goes again. I want to teach her "with me",off lead so she will just close when I need her to then release her again. See how we go. Would love any advice on how to do that as heeling in any form is not one of Stel's strong points. I don't want a formal heel just a "close to me" would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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