BJean Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Can anyone recommend a laboratory to carry out DNA research? ie to develop a Breed DNA signature for a breed? Thank you I'd love to! Probably need about $100k though to type enough reference animals from each breed and buy all the lab consumables And then hope that genetic technologies don't sue me..... (eta just pointing out that as MalteseLuna said since they own the patents and don't tell anyone how they test, anyone else coming along would have to start from scratch. Since it's a private company, they are naturally anticompetitive, even to universities) I think the ANKC asked GT Labs to develop a DNA test for Anatolians/Kangals and I think the cost to develop the DNA was about $50 per sample. How/Why could GT Labs sue? There are other Lab companies that also do similar DNA testing? http://www.animalsdna.com/ http://www.healthgene.com/canine-dna-testing/list-of-breeds/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) I think the ANKC asked GT Labs to develop a DNA test for Anatolians/Kangals and I think the cost to develop the DNA was about $50 per sample. How/Why could GT Labs sue? There are other Lab companies that also do similar DNA testing? http://www.animalsdna.com/ http://www.healthgene.com/canine-dna-testing/list-of-breeds/ I don't want to say too much as GT have given me the stink-eye once before, and done worse to others. I think the other companies have imported testing protocols from overseas, but if you tried to put out the word to Aust breeders you were devloping a test, I'm confident the existing companies would try to run interference. Which you might be able to handle in private enterprise, but government affiliated labs just don't have the resources to fight it. The existing labs can add breeds cheaply as they already have the markers, they just need to find the types in the new breeds. So they are really your only option. You're limited to their testing methods (whatever they are) and the associated interesting results. (efs) Edited September 1, 2011 by Weasels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summersaint Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 www.animalnetwork.com.au Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalteseLuna Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I think the ANKC asked GT Labs to develop a DNA test for Anatolians/Kangals and I think the cost to develop the DNA was about $50 per sample. How/Why could GT Labs sue? There are other Lab companies that also do similar DNA testing? http://www.animalsdna.com/ http://www.healthgene.com/canine-dna-testing/list-of-breeds/ Just pointing out that one of those companies is not Australian (i.e. doesn't operate under the same rules as far as I know) and the other only does parentage and DNA profiling - no disease tests listed. GTG owns the patents (meaning they have sole rights to use them in Australia) to many/most of the DNA tests (i.e. PRA, coat colour etc). This means that other labs cannot carry out the tests - GTG would/could sue the pants off you :D I just don't know if the current methods used by GTG would be accurate at determining between closely related breeds - remembering that some are only ~100-250 years old. If you found the right markers then you would be able to but this would take time and money - testing the reference populations, checking against other breeds to ensure you get accurate results etc. As weasels said - not cheap. Im not quite sure what the quoted cost your taking about is - not really sure why they would quote a cost per sample to develop a breed identification test... *shrug* Anyway back to "fun" science work no more procrastination :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 (edited) Im not quite sure what the quoted cost your taking about is - not really sure why they would quote a cost per sample to develop a breed identification test... *shrug* It is an odd way to charge, because how could you provide results until you had a fair collection of dogs tested? But that aside, my guess is they offered to charge 1/3 of their usual rate just to get the dogs of that breed in so that could add it to their list of breeds. I'm pretty sure they were testing certain breeds for free when they were starting up just to get the reference samples. Anyway back to "fun" science work no more procrastination :D Yes, back to work! (I get to be all smug in my 2 weeks off between finishing study and starting my new job! ) Edited September 1, 2011 by Weasels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalteseLuna Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Yes, back to work! (I get to be all smug in my 2 weeks off between finishing study and starting my new job! ) Does that mean what I think it means - if so YAY congratulations!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Does that mean what I think it means - if so YAY congratulations!!! Yep submitted on the 23rd! Thanks, it's been a long time coming :D Will probably start work next week doing some next gen sequecing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalteseLuna Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Does that mean what I think it means - if so YAY congratulations!!! Yep submitted on the 23rd! Thanks, it's been a long time coming :D Will probably start work next week doing some next gen sequecing Nice - I'm hoping to do some next gen work either end of this year or early next year That's so awesome though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 (edited) Nice - I'm hoping to do some next gen work either end of this year or early next year That's so awesome though Yay! It's a good skill to have! Edited September 2, 2011 by Weasels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I just thought I'd put the previous talk of next-generation DNA sequencing in context and get back on-topic The new crop of genetic technologies like next-gen sequencing and 'SNPs' are going to make an accurate breed test possible in the not-too distant future. The set-up and processing costs are still too high at the moment, but they are dropping all the time, in a similar way to how computer hard drives have rapidly gotten so much better and cheaper. The problem with the current method of testing, and here I am guessing they're using 'microsatellites', is that it might be testing only 10-20 individual parts of the whole dog's genome. Since dogs have 39 chromosome pairs, which shuffle up and are randomly assigned to each pup from both parents, if you are only testing, say, 10 DNA segments you can easily miss contributions of some breeds and overestimate some others by chance. And all of that is assuming your actual testing method is perfect and you can discriminate each breed accurately, which may not be the case and adds another potential source of error. A study published last year using the new 'SNP' technology used 48,000 parts of the genome to define each breed and their relationships to each other. This was a huge worlwide study, but as I said these technologies are getting cheaper and more accessible every year. So I guess I'm saying I know the breed tests may give wonky results now, but don't give up on genetics altogether ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Thanks Weasels that's a good explanation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalteseLuna Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I just thought I'd put the previous talk of next-generation DNA sequencing in context and get back on-topic The new crop of genetic technologies like next-gen sequencing and 'SNPs' are going to make an accurate breed test possible in the not-too distant future. The set-up and processing costs are still too high at the moment, but they are dropping all the time, in a similar way to how computer hard drives have rapidly gotten so much better and cheaper. The problem with the current method of testing, and here I am guessing they're using 'microsatellites', is that it might be testing only 10-20 individual parts of the whole dog's genome. Since dogs have 39 chromosome pairs, which shuffle up and are randomly assigned to each pup from both parents, if you are only testing, say, 10 DNA segments you can easily miss contributions of some breeds and overestimate some others by chance. And all of that is assuming your actual testing method is perfect and you can discriminate each breed accurately, which may not be the case and adds another potential source of error. A study published last year using the new 'SNP' technology used 48,000 parts of the genome to define each breed and their relationships to each other. This was a huge worlwide study, but as I said these technologies are getting cheaper and more accessible every year. So I guess I'm saying I know the breed tests may give wonky results now, but don't give up on genetics altogether ;) Yes - but really SNP Chips (Microarrays) aren't all that expensive (once you've designed them and if you buy bulk) plus you can run a number of samples per chip (if you do less SNPs). We can also do Multi-plex SNP genotyping as well (~60 at a time). I still can't believe that many disease tests are done by restriction digest paying $100 for that is just a joke when a simple and cheap SNP genotyping test is so much more concise. You perfectly sum up why the current breed tests are/might be flawed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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