Cosmolo Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Yes that is correct spotthedog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpotTheDog Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Yes that is correct spotthedog I'm at the vet with him on Friday for his annual vaccs. Will see what they think he is breed-wise, and then see if they'd issue a certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I am getting my vet to write something for mine tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumosmum Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 My understanding of the legislation is as follows: My bitsa bull arab X type mutt is registered as a bull arab X with the local shire council. Let's say I'm at agility and one of the other owners takes a dislike to me and my mutt. They can use the dob-a-dog hotline and report me and the hound. The ranger then approaches me and asks if my dog is registered. I say yes, as a bull arab X. Then the ranger pulls out the appearance checklist, and makes some ticks based on the look of my dog. They then say they believe my dog is a pitbull X. I have no papers. I have no DNA tests. My dog is a rescue mongrel. He's tan and white (check), has a large square head (check), has a scissor bite (check), is within the weight range (check), and has a wrinkly forehead (check). What now? Under the legislation, my understanding is that the rangers can impound and euthanise my dog, in spite of no priors, no problems, no aggression and no roaming, just because I haven't accurately registered him? Am I correct in what I portray here? And if I am correct, are they on crack? I thought that the instant death sentence was for dogs that are not registered at allafter 30 September 2011. I may have it wrong, but I thought that if your dog is registered and you have him registered as what you believe the dog to be, and the above scenario takes place, then the other part of the act that has not been changed would kick in and you would then go to VCAT. If they are assuming that all owners have the knowledge to know the breed make up of our own crossbreeds, or have a check list handy to check our own dogs, that would be ridiculous. Also, that would mean we would all have to undergo the same training every Ranger has undergone as far as breed ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumosmum Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 If the Vet certificate part is written in, I think that will be the best way to go for the crossbreeds. Gee, I think the Vets are going to make a bit out of all of this. There are lot of crossbreeds and dogs who are not registered purebreeds around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Thats not my understanding at this stage. I believe that any pit bull type who is not registered as a pit bull x and kept as such can be seized and destroyed. They are trying to stamp out the cross breeds that people are registering as other breeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumosmum Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I think it is hard to call until we see the actual Bill/Act. We should know more by this time tomorrow, hopefully. If that is the case they will have to remove the whole section in the current act regarding VCAT. I spoke to my Council today, and the Ranger was under the impression that the dogs to be PTS immediately were the ones assesed restricted breed and crosses, who are not registered with council at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 It's also hard to know what the implications of the hotline are until we get some feedback from someone who has rang up, I think I read that out of the 100+ calls they received they sent out 30 or 40 (?) requests for council rangers to follow up in person? So since not every call is being followed up I would like to know which aspects of the complaint are resulting in a follow up visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I think it is hard to call until we see the actual Bill/Act. We should know more by this time tomorrow, hopefully. If that is the case they will have to remove the whole section in the current act regarding VCAT. I spoke to my Council today, and the Ranger was under the impression that the dogs to be PTS immediately were the ones assesed restricted breed and crosses, who are not registered with council at all. See the posts under The Bill. The first part of the series of laws has published. Unfortunately, the breed identification issue shunted off into a "a standard that has been approved by the Minister and published in the Government Gazette." Don't know if this has been published . . . or will only show up after the 'amnesty' period ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic.B Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) Please ignore this if it doesn't help or won't make any difference. I have two dogs who could easily be targeted. A staffy/red cattle female and a bull arab female (registered as a dane x I believe at the pound) Both are gorgeous, well mannered, well socialised dogs. Would it help to do up a portfolio for my dogs? Things like all their chip/rego paperwork, puppy school cert, letters from trainers/behaviourists, vets, neighbours etc? You could even add DNA results as well if they were in your favour, or perhaps a professional breed assessment? Laws are enforced (or not enforced) by human beings. I'd say, if your dogs are friendly and obvious non-problems from a behavioural perspective, but might possibly be mistaken for a restricted breed X, talk with your local Rangers. Make your fears transparent. Having your documents organised should help, as the Rangers may need to justify actions they take. Ask them if there is any point to further documentation. It may turn out, in your local area, to be a mountain made from a molehill. I'd guess most Rangers have a list of dogs who have gotten complaint after complaint, and when the sh#t hits the fan they'll go to those addresses first . . . hotline or no hotline. Thank you We could also include letters for those who have pets as therapy dogs etc. Cosmolo; would the shelter you work with write a refference for your dogs? Your little bunch are absolutely outstanding dogs in every regard. Maybe Hawkesbury could help with a letter as all your dogs were there for the Underdog seminar. My dogs are always inside if I am out, I think this is the safest option for everyone. I dont know of very many dogs who would be happy with an unknown rangers head popping over a fence. ETA My bull arab female was breed Id as a puppy by pound staff as a dane x. Should I be changing that to a Bull Arab? I have pics of both the dogs I am worried about, but have no idea how to post pics The "shark like grin" in the breed Id on page 3 of this thread is a real worry. Bull breeds have the best smile in the world IMO. Edited August 31, 2011 by Nic.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumosmum Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I think it is hard to call until we see the actual Bill/Act. We should know more by this time tomorrow, hopefully. If that is the case they will have to remove the whole section in the current act regarding VCAT. I spoke to my Council today, and the Ranger was under the impression that the dogs to be PTS immediately were the ones assesed restricted breed and crosses, who are not registered with council at all. See the posts under The Bill. The first part of the series of laws has published. Unfortunately, the breed identification issue shunted off into a "a standard that has been approved by the Minister and published in the Government Gazette." Don't know if this has been published . . . or will only show up after the 'amnesty' period ends. Logically thinking, if it is the case as many seem to think that even if the dog is registered it is still at risk of being taken and killed immediately, they would have to show this so called "standard" prior to the amnesty finishing at the end of September. Then again, nothing logical about this whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumosmum Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I have a media crew coming to my house today, to do a piece on the worry of owners with crossbreed dogs being wrongly identified. I don't know how long I will have to say my piece, but I intend to push the fact that there is no accurate way to judge the make up of a crossbreed dog of unknown parentage, especially visually. I also want to get in that BSL is the wrong way to go anyway. My dog is a StaffordX and he is apparently being filmed, but I also have 4 little dogs here. Mother and 3 offspring (4YO NOW). These are crossbreed rescue mutts, and the 3 offspring all look completely different. All from the same litter. There were 6 of them, all different in looks and temperament. Hoping to use them as an example. The idea was to show that bull breed dogs are good dogs and can mix with other dogs and humans happily, but I hope they will also take on board the example of the crossbreed litter. These little examples aren't bully breed dogs, but the theory behind it is the same no matter what breed. As I said, I don't know how much time we will have, and I am a bit nervous, but hopefully some people who eventually watch the show will see what we are going through with our dogs and the fact that it is very unfair, and does not make sense. If anyone here has any other suggestions, please post here or PM and I will try to get whatever info into the thing that I can. Hope they don't edit it and miss the point. I tried to PM Cosmolo and a few others, but seem to be having a bit of trouble with PMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Goodluck, sumosmum. All I can suggest is to sit down with them first and tell them what you want much the same as what you just did in your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Good luck today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumosmum Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Goodluck, sumosmum. All I can suggest is to sit down with them first and tell them what you want much the same as what you just did in your post. Thanks, will do my best for our dogs. I have shocking allergies at the moment, and the dogs are all looking a bit scruffy, but we aren't here for a beauty contest, so will have to go with what we have. We have 1 short hair dog, and 3 long hairs in the little family here. The short hair looks like a pointy faced chi, the mother looks like Cairn terrier/Aussie terrier cross, One looks close to a miniature of the mother and the other one, looks almost Schnauzer crossed with I don't know what. I should have arranged for the other three to be here but this was very short notice and didn't have the time. The other three are all quite unique as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Scruffy is good. Adds character Have tea and coffee ready and as soon as they walk in the door start pouring for them. That way they have to give you some time to tell them how you want it to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumosmum Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Scruffy is good. Adds character Have tea and coffee ready and as soon as they walk in the door start pouring for them. That way they have to give you some time to tell them how you want it to go. Good plan. I have some double choc Tim Tams too. It is the ABC 7.30 show. It is meant to be on TV tomorrow, Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Go you good thing. Have the biccies out ready. No one in their right mind can resist a double choc timtam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Have you got any friendly boarding kennels in your area. When I ran one, we always had a slew of staffie X's, and I would have been confident that their owners would be happy to have them filmed for this cause. Most rescue organizations will be in the same situation. For that matter, call your local Rangers and ask what dogs are in detention at the moment. Good chance there are a few that they would have to PTS under the new rules. Make sure to point them to the AVA, which has posted a strong statement against visual standards, as well as a statement that DNA evidence won't work. I have a media crew coming to my house today, to do a piece on the worry of owners with crossbreed dogs being wrongly identified. I don't know how long I will have to say my piece, but I intend to push the fact that there is no accurate way to judge the make up of a crossbreed dog of unknown parentage, especially visually. I also want to get in that BSL is the wrong way to go anyway. My dog is a StaffordX and he is apparently being filmed, but I also have 4 little dogs here. Mother and 3 offspring (4YO NOW). These are crossbreed rescue mutts, and the 3 offspring all look completely different. All from the same litter. There were 6 of them, all different in looks and temperament. Hoping to use them as an example. The idea was to show that bull breed dogs are good dogs and can mix with other dogs and humans happily, but I hope they will also take on board the example of the crossbreed litter. These little examples aren't bully breed dogs, but the theory behind it is the same no matter what breed. As I said, I don't know how much time we will have, and I am a bit nervous, but hopefully some people who eventually watch the show will see what we are going through with our dogs and the fact that it is very unfair, and does not make sense. If anyone here has any other suggestions, please post here or PM and I will try to get whatever info into the thing that I can. Hope they don't edit it and miss the point. I tried to PM Cosmolo and a few others, but seem to be having a bit of trouble with PMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rottshowgirl Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) What a great opportunity Sumosmum, I hope the fact that they are coming to see you means that they are taking a more balanced approach than parts of the media & Victorian govt. Will be watching ABC at 730 tomorrow Edited August 31, 2011 by Rottshowgirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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