WreckitWhippet Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Theworking group therefore concentrated on written and pictorial standards for that breed. It has been written on both their standards ADBA and UKC that they are strictly prohibited to be used In this manner I'm sure that would Include changing It to their own words etc does It not I'm waiting on the pictorial. I'm sure it will contain images that have been used without authorisation and I reckon they might even have a stuff up or two and there could well be an Amstaff floating around in there. I have a feeling that the pictorial will be the rehashed version from NSW. Once it's out, we need a copy , so we con plaster the overseas forums and find out who owns these dogs and get them to complian about the images being used in such a manner. If it contains an AKC Amstaff or one from any country that Australia recognises, then their whole method of breed ID is up poo creek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) If the law is here to stay for the interim in Victoria, and the issue really is people who do have dangerous, unsocialised bull breeds ruining it for other bull breed lovers, why not really push for some sort of temperment assessment days? The dog that is of undeterminate breeding, fits the physical description but really is displaying the personality qualities of a lab x staffy, could be then issued with a special council registration. The people who have been responsible pet owners hopefully will get some relief. Im not suggesting the dog has to be perfect to pass, but at least stable in social situations and if the dog is DA then the owners are able to demonstrate what/how they manage the situation. To fund it the owners pay a fee (I have no idea....~$50) and over the next 3 months behaviour experts (with no repercussions on themselves) and council rangers work together at various locations around Victoria. Open the amnesty until the end of the 3 months, and those owners who really care about their dogs will make the effort. seems like a way to weed out the deadbeat dog owners. Edited August 31, 2011 by Inevitablue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 The dog that is of undeterminate breeding, fits the physical description but really is displaying the personality qualities of a lab x staffy, could be then issued with a special council registration. The people who have been responsible pet owners hopefully will get some relief. Im not suggesting the dog has to be perfect to pass, but at least stable in social situations and if the dog is DA then the owners are able to demonstrate what/how they manage the situation. To fund it the owners pay a fee (I have no idea....~$50) and over the next 3 months behaviour experts (with no repercussions on themselves) and council rangers work together at various locations around Victoria. Open the amnesty until the end of the 3 months, and those owners who really care about their dogs will make the effort. seems like a way to weed out the deadbeat dog owners. What would they be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 No one can agree on temperament assessment anyway though. Regardless that still leaves one of my dogs in the firing line- never in her life has she shown aggression but she is fearful and would fail any temp test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rep628 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Once again going by that ID, I have a Pitt Bull. It does say over 20kg though, thats big for a PB SBT? ETA big not bit. You haven't seen some of the papered English Staffys I've seen here in QLD. Or for that matter, the behemoth, pedigreed Amstaffs here. My Amstaff male is a delicious 25kg, 19.5 inch thing. If it wasn't for his cropped ears, the dogs here would make him look little and harmless like a Frenchie PB sizes range in North America from anything between 35lbs (16kg-ish) up to 80lbs (35kg-ish), or god forbid 100+lbs - depends on the line and style. Anyways, if dogmen in N. America want smaller dogs, they just use SBT in the ring or add SBT to the line to downsize, Just ask Michael Vick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 What would they be? Perhaps angled that wrong, if the dog was Lab x Staffy (and I should clarify, by staffy I mean SBT)and should never even come under any BSL and it was obvious that the dog was a decent member of society then those dogs would be protected. I also include any dog that physically resembles what the rangers are looking for, be given the chance to prove their merit. As for temperment assessments, they would be looking for dog and owner combinations that are not uncontrollable, unsocialised time bombs. If the dog fails they still have the option of keeping the dog, just under a 'dangerous dog' situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 No one can agree on temperament assessment anyway though. Regardless that still leaves one of my dogs in the firing line- never in her life has she shown aggression but she is fearful and would fail any temp test. But your abilities as a dog owner would overcome that. That you demonstrate an ability to manage your dog. Its the dog AND owner being assessed. I just think it would put alot of peoples minds at easy to know they can get exemption on the grounds that they have proven their capabilities and/or dogs temperment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda K Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Situation one; The ranger peers over the fence and sees a dog that 'appears' to be a pitbull, but is a papered Amstaff and registered as such with the local council. What happens? Dog is siezed and destroyed immediately with no right to appeal? Owner is contacted and given time to prove that their dog is an Amstaff? ie ANKC registration papers. Situation two. The ranger peers over the fence and sees a dog that 'appears' to be a pitbull, but is a BYB Amstaff / SBT x / Dogue x / Lab x (any large cross breed with a red nose..) and is registered with the council as such. What happenes? Situation 3. A dog that 'appears' to be a pitbull escapes from it's property and is collected by a ranger. Dog is not wearing a registration tag (but is microchipped as an Amstaff). This dog has NOT shown any signs of aggression. What happens? How does the ranger determine if an owner is registering their breed correctly before taking action? Does this mean that any dog, including those of know heritage, that may resembles a APBT or pitbull "type" must be registered (and kept) as such? This article in todays Age seems to answer this My link which says that if you have papers or a vet certificate showing the dog is not a pit bull, that you should be OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Amazing how they're still going after 'breed' when every bit of research suggests they're looking in the wrong place. Bit like the drunk searching under the streetlight for the keys he'd dropped. Even though he dropped them elsewhere. His reason being, he's got some light to see by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Lisa~ Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 No one can agree on temperament assessment anyway though. Regardless that still leaves one of my dogs in the firing line- never in her life has she shown aggression but she is fearful and would fail any temp test. 1 of my dogs (and possibly a second) would be in this position as well. She is a beautiful family dog and I feel confident in saying we will never have an incident with her. However, I really doubt she would pass a temperament test, she is far too excitable and quite obnoxious when she gets excited. When they say council rangers will be going through certain suburbs looking for 'pitbull type dogs' does this mean just roaming the street looking for dogs being walked, or looking over fences into yards? Can they knock on your door and insist that they see your dogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 This article in todays Age seems to answer this My link which says that if you have papers or a vet certificate showing the dog is not a pit bull, that you should be OK Hi Linda is says: New regulations to be released tomorrow by the Baillieu government will also mean dogs that meet the description of a pit bull but who are described as American Staffordshire terriers by their owners, will need certificate of pedigree evidence to prove the dog is an American Staffordshire terrier I can't find the bit that says a vet certificate will suffice? In fact, it doesn't even mention DNA evidence as being sufficient - all Amstaff's are pitbulls unless pedigrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticky Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) This article in todays Age seems to answer this My link which says that if you have papers or a vet certificate showing the dog is not a pit bull, that you should be OK Hi Linda is says: New regulations to be released tomorrow by the Baillieu government will also mean dogs that meet the description of a pit bull but who are described as American Staffordshire terriers by their owners, will need certificate of pedigree evidence to prove the dog is an American Staffordshire terrier I can't find the bit that says a vet certificate will suffice? In fact, it doesn't even mention DNA evidence as being sufficient - all Amstaff's are pitbulls unless pedigrees. Pretty sure the Age just made that up. S Edited August 31, 2011 by Sticky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticky Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Also have a look at Hansard for the LC http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/images/stories/daily-hansard/Council_Jul-Dec_2011_Daily_30_August_2011.pdf Some members are not fully supportive of this. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticky Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 There are some good resources here: http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/resources/breed-and-behavior/ S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) I can't find the bit that says a vet certificate will suffice? In fact, it doesn't even mention DNA evidence as being sufficient - all Amstaff's are pitbulls unless pedigrees. Which demonstrates the numpty logic being pushed forward. If it is not possible to determine whether a dog is an Am Staff or a Pit Bull based on looks alone why are Pit Bulls being singled out, and not both Am Staff and Pit Bull? If two dogs look identical, and pedigreed Am Staff only make up a small percentage of the total Am Staff population why is it Pit Bulls that are to be eradicated? Is Pit Bull the name given to rogue Am Staffs? New regulations to be released tomorrow by the Baillieu government will also mean dogs that meet the description of a pit bull but who are described as American Staffordshire terriers by their owners, will need certificate of pedigree evidence to prove the dog is an American Staffordshire terrier. If it is accepted as a reasonable point of of difference that a printed pedigree - the only thing that can determine a Pit Bull type from a bone fide Am Staff - is all that separates an Am Staff from a Pit Bull - just how much more crap will the numpty Victorian community willingly accept as plausible and a 'good idea'? And where are all the registered Am Staff breeders? Under the same dung heap I guess. Edited August 31, 2011 by lilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 lilli I suspect most people don't have any understanding of what has been passed - they read that the government is clamping down on dangerous dogs and think that must be a good thing. They don't think that their staffy x pet lying at their feet will be impacted because "it isn't a pitbull". They think if their dog is registered with the council it will be fine - even many DOLers here seem to think that. Little do they know that by the above definitions and the description that GT put up, most staffy-types would fall under the "pitbull" classification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffles Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 lilli I suspect most people don't have any understanding of what has been passed - they read that the government is clamping down on dangerous dogs and think that must be a good thing. They don't think that their staffy x pet lying at their feet will be impacted because "it isn't a pitbull". They think if their dog is registered with the council it will be fine - even many DOLers here seem to think that. Little do they know that by the above definitions and the description that GT put up, most staffy-types would fall under the "pitbull" classification. EXACTLY Megan! Every staffy person I speak to, or person with a bullbreed cross says "Nah it's fine, my dogs not a pit bull". I try and tell them that they NEED to be concerned about this, but you cannot get it through to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda K Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 was in the little box off to the side, about 2/3 of the way down the page, where it says When is a pit bull not a pit bull http://images.theage.com.au/2011/08/31/2592689/pitbull_ipad-200x0.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal House Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 No one can agree on temperament assessment anyway though. Regardless that still leaves one of my dogs in the firing line- never in her life has she shown aggression but she is fearful and would fail any temp test. Same case here Cosmolo. Mine is fearful and has never shown human aggression in her life and would probably fail a temp test. What to do? Do we try and prove (I was going to get a dna test for her) that she is say...mostly staffy with a small percentage of (for example) mastiff? Or do I now register her as a restricted breed before the amnesty ends (shes currently registered as a staffy, but no papers) to safeguard her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeckoTree Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I reckon those people that sell and pin papers will be rubbing there hands with glee over this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now