'search & Destroy Mission'

[LizT]

If I lived in any area and had a neighbour's dog flinging itself against the fence in fury every time my kids played outside, I'd be making a call too. Idiot owners and dangerous dogs ARE out there.

My guess is many of the calls made won't be new cases - just frustrated people hoping to get some action on old complaints.

I don't know, many dogs appear to be highly territorial and I'm sure the noise of the kids excites them but really probably wouldn't do anything.

As long as they are contained in their yard, I think it is unfair to report them and have them possibly declared dangerous or euthanized.

Is some kind of behavioural assessment required after a call is made to the hotline, or is just my word against yours....

My dog really carries on when people come to visit, she sounds what many would think vicious- in reality she'd the most injury she would probably do is jumping on the person/child in excitement to give kisses. It is a fear/excitement thing with her, obviously I'm trying to discourage it due to the current climate of dog attacks and fear of dogs.

I'd hate for her to be reported as a dangerous dog based on barking alone...

Idon't know Aussielover, my German Shepherd is very territorial and will "send off anyone who walks past the front of our house. But he totally accepts that our neighbours (who he can see through a rural ringlock fence "belong" in their yard and they can do whatever they please within their own property and he doesn't mind. That is as it should be.

[megan_]

So if you had a Staffy Mastiff Cross for example that is unregistered would it be wise to quickly register that animal as a Staffy/mastiff cross before the powersthat be decide it's a Pitbull?? ( I know someone and worry for their dog.)

They need to register it, however what they register it as will have no bearing.

If the council believes that it is a pitbull x and it hasn't been registered as a restricted breed (which is more than just normal council rego) it can be seized and destroyed after 30 September unless the owner can prove it has not pitbull in it. Registering the dog as an amstaff, staffy x etc will have no bearing on it at all.

Strangely, it seems the only way to keep a pitty-looking dog safe is to register it now as a pitbull x and comply with all the restrictions that go along with that.

[WoofnHoof]

My guess is many of the calls made won't be new cases - just frustrated people hoping to get some action on old complaints.

And my guess that is unless the reported dogs are bull breeds no action will be taken.

That's why I thought it would be interesting to know what they actually do when someone rings the hotline, at the moment all anyone can do is guess at what *might* happen.

If anyone does phone the hotline can they please let us know here? Both what they ask and whether it's followed up would both be interesting, especially in the case of dogs that don't look PB. I think it's called a dangerous dog hotline not a pitbull hotline so in theory they should take complaints seriously regardless of breed...

[Nic.B]

Please ignore this if it doesn’t help or won’t make any difference.

I have two dogs who could easily be targeted. A staffy/red cattle female and a bull arab female (registered as a dane x I believe at the pound)

Both are gorgeous, well mannered, well socialised dogs. Would it help to do up a portfolio for my dogs?

Things like all their chip/rego paperwork, puppy school cert, letters from trainers/behaviourists, vets, neighbours etc? You could even add DNA results as well if they were in your favour, or perhaps a professional breed assessment?

[megan_]

Posted this in general but thought it may be more appropriate here. Appologies if some of these questions have already been asked...

Help me understand here.

This is my take on it:

Situation one;

The ranger peers over the fence and sees a dog that 'appears' to be a pitbull, but is a papered Amstaff and registered as such with the local council.

What happens?

Dog is siezed and destroyed immediately with no right to appeal?

Owner is contacted and given time to prove that their dog is an Amstaff? ie ANKC registration papers.

.

I believe that, in this case, the dog will be safe (if the owner acts very quickly) because they can prove the dog is not a pitbull or pitbull x.

Situation two.

The ranger peers over the fence and sees a dog that 'appears' to be a pitbull, but is a BYB Amstaff / SBT x / Dogue x / Lab x (any large cross breed with a red nose..) and is registered with the council as such.

What happenes?

Regardless of what the dog is registered as, if it isn't registered as a pitbull x and the council believes it is, then it can be seized and destroyed. The owner will need to prove that the dog has no pitbull in it (which I'm led to believe will be impossible for random crossbreeds?). IF the dog had been registered as a pitbull x and its owners complied with all the laws that govern pitbulls the dog would be safe.

Situation 3.

A dog that 'appears' to be a pitbull escapes from it's property and is collected by a ranger. Dog is not wearing a registration tag (but is microchipped as an Amstaff). This dog has NOT shown any signs of aggression.

What happens?

How does the ranger determine if an owner is registering their breed correctly before taking action?

Does this mean that any dog, including those of know heritage, that may resembles a APBT or pitbull "type" must be registered (and kept) as such?

I believe the owner will have a limited time where they can prove the dog is not a pitbull cross (reg papers).

After 30 September, if your dog isn't registered as a pitbull cross and the council believes it is (according to a yet-to-be-determined checklist) your dog can (will?) be seized and destroyed. You won't have any second chances and you won't be able to cop a fine and say you'll now comply with the restrictions.

[Nic.B]

Sorry...

If you have your dogs professionaly breed assesed, would that help?

[sandgrubber]

Please ignore this if it doesn't help or won't make any difference.

I have two dogs who could easily be targeted. A staffy/red cattle female and a bull arab female (registered as a dane x I believe at the pound)

Both are gorgeous, well mannered, well socialised dogs. Would it help to do up a portfolio for my dogs?

Things like all their chip/rego paperwork, puppy school cert, letters from trainers/behaviourists, vets, neighbours etc? You could even add DNA results as well if they were in your favour, or perhaps a professional breed assessment?

Laws are enforced (or not enforced) by human beings. I'd say, if your dogs are friendly and obvious non-problems from a behavioural perspective, but might possibly be mistaken for a restricted breed X, talk with your local Rangers. Make your fears transparent. Having your documents organised should help, as the Rangers may need to justify actions they take. Ask them if there is any point to further documentation.

It may turn out, in your local area, to be a mountain made from a molehill. I'd guess most Rangers have a list of dogs who have gotten complaint after complaint, and when the sh#t hits the fan they'll go to those addresses first . . . hotline or no hotline.

[tybrax]

Yep, sorry forgot the link

LINK

I thought they were different breeds, whats this about "His Honour also determined that the Amstaff was merely a name adopted in the United States of America for APBTs. The Court found that Tango was an Amstaff, but therefore also an APBT and a restricted dog"

This was overtuned. http://www.cabinet.qld.gov.au/mms/StatementDisplaySingle.aspx?id=70902

[grumpette]

From the Hansard

The standard or description that was identified in the

previous contribution was developed with the

consultation of an all-breeds judge, a veterinarian and

an authorised officer of a local council. It provides a

tool for the public and for council officers to use in

assessing what type of dog can be declared as a pit bull.

A working group developed the standard for assessing

whether or not a dog might be of the pit bull type. The

standard has been written in such a way that it will be

the legal tool to assist the authorised officers of councils

who can declare a dog to be of a restricted breed. There

is no nationally recognised breed standard for American

pit bull terriers, and they are the type of dog that council

officers have had most difficulty in identifying. The

working group therefore concentrated on written and

pictorial standards for that breed.

In relation to the right of review, if an officer declares a

dog to be of a restricted breed, the owner has the right

to appeal through the Victorian Civil and

Administrative Tribunal. The Department of Primary

Industries has produced a toolkit to assist local

government in the implementation of this legislation,

and it has established a hotline.

[grumpette]

More about how the Standard has been developed:

Mr BARBER (Northern Metropolitan) — I thank

the minister for the background. Are there any other

groups with an interest in this matter that were

consulted or needed to be consulted both in relation to

the preparation of the standard for American pit bulls

and also in terms of the mechanics of preparing,

implementing and running this legislation — for

example, the Royal Society for the Prevention of

Cruelty to Animals or any dog breeder groups and so

forth?

Hon. P. R. HALL (Minister for Higher Education

and Skills) — In respect of consultation with other

groups, I can advise Mr Barber that the persons

involved in the consultation on the development of the

standard — I do not know the actual names of the

people — included an all-breeds judge, a veterinarian

and an authorised officer of council. They represented

their groups on the development of the standard. In

terms of consultation groups, I have mentioned the

Municipal Association of Victoria. That is the

knowledge I possess at the moment as to the groups

that have been consulted on aspects of this legislation.

The advantage of having an approved standard means

that that can be implemented once gazettal is planned. I

just wanted to explain the difference in process there.

The next point I want to make is in respect of the

question of the development of the standard. When the

Domestic Animals Amendment (Dangerous Dogs) Act

2010 was passed by the Parliament my understanding is

that a working party was put in place at that time by the

previous government with the aim of developing a

standard that could be used by authorised officers of

council to assess matters associated with these restricted

breed-type dogs. Since that act came into being in 2010

a working party has been formed that has gone about

the task of developing these standards. Following the

2010 legislative amendment the working party

consisted of a veterinarian who previously participated

in the then minister’s restricted dog breed panel and

was on the executive of the Australian Veterinary

Association. There was also a world-recognised

all-breeds judge and there was an experienced

authorised officer from a local council, so pretty much

the same composition that the previous government had

in place has been carried over to the finalisation of the

standard that we now have applying to this piece of

legislation.

[WreckitWhippet]

I believe we may be able to pull the rug from under them, when it comes to the " pictorial standard" we just need a copy of it and we can go to town on that one .

[poodlefan]

How can an "all breeds judge" profess to be an expert on a breed that isn't recognised by the ANKC?

[WreckitWhippet]

How can an "all breeds judge" profess to be an expert on a breed that isn't recognised by the ANKC?

well if it doesn't fit an ANKC standard, then it has to be a Pitt Bull right ??????

[experiencedfun]

not only that....take a look at any show and you will find a dog that does NOT conform to a standard .... and cross breed the APBT with anything else and it may not look like it fits the standard either........OMG

[poodlefan]

How can an "all breeds judge" profess to be an expert on a breed that isn't recognised by the ANKC?

well if it doesn't fit an ANKC standard, then it has to be a Pitt Bull right ??????

Or a Murray River Curly Coated Retriever - they have brown noses ;)

[RottnBullies]

The

working group therefore concentrated on written and

pictorial standards for that breed.

It has been written on both their standards ADBA and UKC that they are strictly prohibited to be used In this manner

I'm sure that would Include changing It to their own words etc does It not

[WreckitWhippet]

The

working group therefore concentrated on written and

pictorial standards for that breed.

It has been written on both their standards ADBA and UKC that they are strictly prohibited to be used In this manner

I'm sure that would Include changing It to their own words etc does It not

I'm waiting on the pictorial. I'm sure it will contain images that have been used without authorisation and I reckon they might even have a stuff up or two and there could well be an Amstaff floating around in there.

[poodlefan]

Surely the breed standard MUST include:

Temperament: inherently and consistenly aggressive, will attack anything and lock its jaw.

And dogs that don't match that can't be pitbulls.

[RottnBullies]

Well yeah I think It could well be fought on both written and pictorial, not to mention the all breeds judge!

I'll be waiting to see those pics too, god only knows where they've managed to get them from

ETA

Edited August 31, 2011 by RottnBullies

[tybrax]

The

working group therefore concentrated on written and

pictorial standards for that breed.

It has been written on both their standards ADBA and UKC that they are strictly prohibited to be used In this manner

I'm sure that would Include changing It to their own words etc does It not

I'm waiting on the pictorial. I'm sure it will contain images that have been used without authorisation and I reckon they might even have a stuff up or two and there could well be an Amstaff floating around in there.