Pulling Pulling Pulling Pulling!

[mjellyicus]

I really need some help. She's almost 5 months and has never caught on to loose leash walking. On a flat collar she strangles herself until she falls in a heap, on a harness she pulls and pulls and pulls so much that after a stop/start walk for 50 minutes I have blisters on my hand from the lead.

When she pulls I stop walking, say heel and bring her back to my side, but its only seconds before she's off on HER walk again. I understand the lure of a fantastic smell or a bird etc just over there, but every single moment of the walk? It's gone beyond ridiculous. She just doesn't get it or want to get it. Certainly should have learned by now.

We went to puppy pre school but she just went mental with all the other dogs each week, didn't learn much people manners beyond sit and down. Treats don't seem to work with her unless they are constant, and I mean like I would have to walk down the street carrying a leg of lamb while she chewed and was dragged behind it.

I'm trying to be calm assertive, but she's just so determined not to walk with me as leader. My sister also walks her, but isn't a strong personality and allows the dog to walk her, not the other way around. Obviously this inconsistency wouldn't be helping.

Was thinking of a head harness, but read they don't work all that well for beagles as they escape them quite easily, or a training collar of some variety?

Help me, oh please for the love of dog walks, help me.

[persephone]

I would have to walk down the street carrying a leg of lamb while she chewed and was dragged behind it.

I just LOVE the mental picture!!

Seriously - *snigger* I do have a suggestion..

My suggestion may cost you a bit of money ..BUT it will probably give you understanding and skills with which to use the appropriate tools and methods to make walking much less of a battle ;)

I suggest you ask for recommendations on here for a good trainer (not bark busters or similar) who will work with you one-one-one , assess teh problems, and assist you in making things better!!

Sounds as if there a whole parcel of things going on with your pup ... plus being a teenager ... and the quickest way to stop a lifetime of bad habits is to get competent, personal help now.

Edited August 29, 2011 by persephone

[Dogsfevr]

I would suggest shorter walks with plenty of treats.

It sounds like the dog hears the same old same form you that it means nothing or your boring & the outside world is more interesting to the dog.

If the dog is food driven then take plenty of treats & use it to your advantage to maintain attention & to teach the dog to listen.

It does sound like you need assistance to understand where your going wrong & the sooner the better

[Red Fox]

http://www.k9pro.com...ng-Program.html

Steve from K9 Pro has a Loose Leash Walking Program which is done via internet/phone correspondence. I have run a dog through this program and highly recommend it. Fell free to PM me if you'd like more info.

Edited August 31, 2011 by SecretKei

[Pretty Miss Emma]

Have been through the pulling thing!! Well, probably so have most people on here.

Definitely look into either seeing a trainer or at least joining a local obedience club you are happy with, advice from someone with knowledge and experience who can see you working will be invaluable.

What sort of harness are you using? Front or back attach? If it is back attach then it is doing absolutely nothing to stop the pulling and may well be helping encourage it. If you want to use a harness make sure it is the sort that is designed as a training tool to help with the pulling problem not just a "seat-belt harness". Also in terms of halter type tools, I would suggest go with the theory of "don't know if you don't try". If you're prepared to try one, maybe it would work. I have seen beagles with them and they haven't seemed to be any better at getting them off than any other sort of dog.

Is there any reason why pup can't have heaps and heaps of treats to encourage no pulling when walking? As in, can you use part/all of the daily food ration when walking and have a really high reinforcement rate? My dog still gets the majority of her daily ration to help her with some of her issues out on the street. If it is a system that works for you, use it!

Some other things that entered my mind... is the walk fast enough for pup (ie. are the humans dawdling?)? Pup will need to learn that it walks with the people, but I found with my girl I got her walking really nicely on lead by starting the walk fast and then once the excitement of being out was subsiding we could slow down a bit. Beagles tend to follow their nose, is she just doing this? I don't know how scent hounds work but can she be trained to somewhat ignore this? Also can you ask her to look at you when she walks, looking back will maybe slow her down a little?

I know my puppy school teacher swore by "red light, green light". She told us about her pup and she played red light green light (red light = if the lead goes tight stop, green light = if the lead goes loose walk) very strictly to do one lap of a smallish park near her. Apparently it too her 2 hours to do one lap, but after this she had a pup that walked on a loose lead!! I haven't had the time and patience to do this, but who knows - maybe it would work!!!!

But definitely look into getting help from one of the trainers here or someone in your area (person or club) who comes with good recommendations - will save you lots of time and frustration to have someone watch and see what is going on and be able to give you tailored advice.

[Alyosha]

I have one who is a terrible puller. I never believed they really existed until I had to deal with her. She is not the brightest (in fact she may the "blondest" in my pack...), very instinctive and prey driven. She's an awesome huntress. If she sees a rabbit off lead it's pretty certainly a snack... On lead, my arm is a rubber band...

The only thing that stops her being completely distracted by every tiny scent and movement is an Infin8 collar by Blackdog.

I wouldn't doubt that many hunting breed's instincts (whether scent or sight or both) will in certain circumstances override their concern for treats or human pleasure. That's how they've been bred for a very long time.

[SammieS]

Where abouts in QLD are you? If you're in/around Brisbane - I recommend Jane Harper from Dogs on Track if you want to see a trainer. She works alongside K9 Pro so will be able to point you in the right direction.

[kritta]

My pup was a puller up until two weeks ago when I said enough is enough. She's 16 weeks old and 15kgs so I couldn't let it go on any longer.

What I did was firstly buy a shorter lead that was good to hold onto and wasn't going to slip out of my hands.

I make her sit attach the lead to a normal collar. Make sure I had lots of treats on hand for anything that resembled a heal at the start of the training.

I practised in my back garden firstly until I got a good heal.

I made the training very black and white for this pup. If you go past my legs you get a pull back to position and a treat given at the heal position.

As she got better and better the treat was only given randomly and lots of praise and a pat other times. Pup was healing perfectly by the second session.

I'd just practise in the back garden for a few sessions a day for a few days until you get your pup where you want it. Remember keep it very simple, Black and white.

I did have an older dog that I couldn't get to heal constanly enough so I put him in a halter type lead which worked well.

Good luck with the training.

[corvus]

This is just my opinion, but personally I think it has to start with a relationship where the dog actually can pay attention to you when you're out on walks. Sometimes that is hard won, but once you have it, you always have that foot in the door. Other problems will come up and they will be easier to get through because you will have that foundation to build on rather than be trying to start from scratch to solve every problem that comes about. Solving problems becomes a mere extension of the dog's skills. I'm not going to go into detail here because I don't have enough time to waste some on something no one cares about! Happy to go into more detail if someone does want to know, though.

[stonecutter]

Oooh - I'm definitely interested corvus in hearing more. Ziva is a puller and the only time she looks at me on a walk is when we stop at the curb (she knows to heel/sit and then looks up at me for the release to keep going) - but I would love for her to look at me more often.

[aussielover]

I second the recommendation for the K9pro loose leash walking program.

TOT teaches the dog to look to the owner for permission and teaches self control so I strongly recommend you begin to implement it (available in the training forum).

A behavioural interruptor or teaching "look at me" may also help.

In the meantime, a front leading harness my be beneficial.

[wuffles]

This is just my opinion, but personally I think it has to start with a relationship where the dog actually can pay attention to you when you're out on walks. Sometimes that is hard won, but once you have it, you always have that foot in the door. Other problems will come up and they will be easier to get through because you will have that foundation to build on rather than be trying to start from scratch to solve every problem that comes about. Solving problems becomes a mere extension of the dog's skills. I'm not going to go into detail here because I don't have enough time to waste some on something no one cares about! Happy to go into more detail if someone does want to know, though.

I tend to agree. Ava walks on a loose leash with me but is a nightmare for my OH. I have a very different relationship with her than him. She listens to him, yes, but she knows and watches my body language very well. I am wary of my emotions around her as she's very sensitive and try to be consistent in my commands. He doesn't think about such things and she picks up on that. He feeds her, looks after her, plays with her... whereas I engage with her, set her boundaries and make her interactions with me rewarding and positive.

That being said, I don't want her actually looking at me on walks. It's annoying. I want her to sniff and explore and take in her surroundings and just have me in the back of her mind the whole time. If she sees something exciting I do have to occasionally remind her what she's meant to be doing, but when I do, she waits to see what I want her to do next. Trust me when I say it's annoying having a dog offering prancy, stare-at-your-face heelwork when you are trying to take them for a casual off leash walk... I know this from experience

[BC Crazy]

This is just my opinion, but personally I think it has to start with a relationship where the dog actually can pay attention to you when you're out on walks. Sometimes that is hard won, but once you have it, you always have that foot in the door. Other problems will come up and they will be easier to get through because you will have that foundation to build on rather than be trying to start from scratch to solve every problem that comes about. Solving problems becomes a mere extension of the dog's skills. I'm not going to go into detail here because I don't have enough time to waste some on something no one cares about! Happy to go into more detail if someone does want to know, though.

I am very interested & certainly want to know more Corvus. I would love my girl to pay attention to me more when we are out walking & I am sure it would help with a couple of other problems we have when

we are out like pulling on lead & trying to chase birds. Not a good thing. Stella is always in a hurry.I would love to slow her down alittle. She is fairly high drive, very focused,very food driven &

extremely alert. If I knew just how to harness some of her enthusiasm & direct it towards me, I would be wrapped. Just unsure how to do it. I am all ears Corvus !!!

Sorry, don't mean to drop in on someone else's thread.

Edited September 1, 2011 by BC Crazy

[bianca.a]

This is just my opinion, but personally I think it has to start with a relationship where the dog actually can pay attention to you when you're out on walks. Sometimes that is hard won, but once you have it, you always have that foot in the door. Other problems will come up and they will be easier to get through because you will have that foundation to build on rather than be trying to start from scratch to solve every problem that comes about. Solving problems becomes a mere extension of the dog's skills. I'm not going to go into detail here because I don't have enough time to waste some on something no one cares about! Happy to go into more detail if someone does want to know, though.

I am very interested & certainly want to know more Corvus. I would love my girl to pay attention to me more when we are out walking & I am sure it would help with a couple of other problems we have when

we are out like pulling on lead & trying to chase birds. Not a good thing. Stella is always in a hurry.I would love to slow her down alittle. She is fairly high drive, very focused,very food driven &

extremely alert. If I knew just how to harness some of her enthusiasm & direct it towards me, I would be wrapped. Just unsure how to do it. I am all ears Corvus !!!

Sorry, don't mean to drop in on someone else's thread.

Another one who is very interested to hear please Corvus

[corvus]

Imagine that, people are interested!

In my mind, the idea is to create in your dog a sense that you are a good bet. Any time you say their name or address them, there might be an opportunity to earn rewards. It doesn't really matter what kind of rewards, but I think as many as possible is a good idea! Really embrace nothing in life is free (NILIF). If you don't like the structure, think of it as endless opportunities to have your dog listen to you and reward them for it. The more you reward them, the more they start to see you as a good bet and the more they pay attention to you when you ask for it. I really think this is so important. There should not be times when you are a good bet and times when you are not. Remember that dogs are excellent discriminators. If there is a time when you do not often reward them, they will know about it and they'll be less attentive at those times.

When my dogs were puppies, it was very easy for them to earn rewards. They just had to look when their name was called, check in on their own, hang around like a bad smell in interesting environments, and they got rewards for performing a lot of simple things they had been taught like sit or touch on cue. Any time they did something I like I paid it, whether I cued it or not. As they grew more attentive I asked for more before rewarding. It's partly building up a really strong reward history with you and therefore a big pile of pleasant associations, and partly getting them into the habit of looking for opportunities to earn rewards when they are around you. When they are not sure what activity is going to be the most fun, there we are with our history of reinforcement and that puts us ahead of the crowd right there. It doesn’t guarantee the dog will choose us, but it weighs in our favour.

I think where most people trip up is they jump ahead and start trying to use food and other rewards out in very exciting places before they have built up that expectation for opportunities to earn good things at home. The trick is to weave very easy opportunities to earn food into new situations. If your dog’s mad sniffing has eased up for a moment and they lift their head, that’s when you call their name and reward when they turn around to look at you. They won’t pay attention until you have built up that reward history enough that they are starting to look for opportunities to earn rewards around the house. If you say their name, they should perk up and look hopeful and start skittering around or offering sits in the hopes that you will reward them. If you keep it very easy when you leave the yard at first, like just looking at you for a moment when you say their name, then you're more likely to have success and start moving forward. To me, one of the most useful things is to have a dog that hears their name (or some other word if you want to use that instead) and immediately assumes someone has something fantastic for them. Build it up at home a lot before you take it on the road, and just take small steps and be patient. It took me months to get Erik to train off leash in the dog park, but it's so useful when they have learnt to always have their ear out for you in case you give them a chance to earn rewards. If you can get their attention you're halfway there already.