ruthjones Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 The breeder has not moved house....he has the same home number and has a web site with email address and phone number. I would rank that in the 'contactable' basket! Oh yeh...he's not dead either! In the meantime the owner of the dog has gotten 'specialist' (and other) judges to go over the dog and some wrote a critique. Two of the judges are DIRECT competitors of the breeder and one had given the litter brother a RUBIS! The other had given him a BIG! Conflict of Interest perhaps??? All written critiques were submitted as part of the evidence (apparently, as the breeder was not supplied with the evidence in full). This is all completely irrelevant by the way as CCC(Q) actual definition of the Limited Register does not mention (or even elude to) quality, or lack thereof required either for main/limited registration!! Add to this, there is NOTHING in the CCC(Q) Rules and Regs/Constitution that validates this is a legitimate way of getting a dog moved to the MR. So I'm not sure why anyone could be told that at the CCC(Q) office. (a secret rule or regulation perhaps?) Anna-Lee Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that he had moved or died at all, was just giving what Dogs Qld staff member told me as a possibility, I wonder whether the new owner claimed he couldnt contact the breeder and hence the other "ëvidence" was determined to be sufficient? Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) How the dog looks and whether it is physically a good representative of the breed isnt the only reason people put dogs on limited register and whether the owner is not contactable or dead or in a metal home shouldnt make any difference. When we register the dog we are told that the limited register has certain restrictions and that these cannot be lifted unless the breeder agrees .If the breeder doesnt agree that shoudl be the end of it. Whether there was something within the sales contract or a queston over what the agreement was needs to be decided by the courts and if the breeder is directed to upgrade via the court the breeder up grades - if not they are punished by the courts . When they introduced rules that we had to register all live pups and give out the papers the deal was limited would enable us to control which dogs we bred could be bred with and have registered pups.Later we were able to prevent them being issued export pedigrees so puppy farmers overseas couldnt register them in countries where the export papers are necessary to register puppies. 20 years ago we didnt have to register them all and we didnt have to give papers - we could sell them with copies of the pedigree and no registration papers - which is why papers would cost more . No matter what this should be the right of the breeder as it is the terms of our contract with the CC's - it doesnt say if we dont agree or if the breeder is accused of doing something they shouldnt have we will change the rules! Some breeders in WA register all live pups on the main register but only provide the owner with a copy - so the breeder keeps the original - The only ones who get the real pedigree are those who want to show or breed from the outset and its dogs the breeder has determined are worthy of this. Perhaps the breeder should consider legal re dress as this appears to be a clear breach of contract .Breeder purchased the rego papers in good faith in the belief they would have control of this and that was taken from them. Edited October 2, 2011 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacee Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 As at 16 Aug 2011, Dogs QLD transferred a dog, sold (in NSW) on the Limited Register to the Main Register WITHOUT the breeders consent, knowledge or right of reply. This is a dangerous precedent and a Pandora's box! An appeal has been lodged to Dogs QLD. If you use the Limited Register this is a friendly heads up. You might not be as 'safe' as you think you are. Anna-Lee It seems Dogs Qld always do their own thing whether its right or wrong and dont care. They transferred a dog out of my name as co owner and into other co owners name only a number of years ago - without my signature or knowledge and I could do nothing about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 As at 16 Aug 2011, Dogs QLD transferred a dog, sold (in NSW) on the Limited Register to the Main Register WITHOUT the breeders consent, knowledge or right of reply. This is a dangerous precedent and a Pandora's box! An appeal has been lodged to Dogs QLD. If you use the Limited Register this is a friendly heads up. You might not be as 'safe' as you think you are. Anna-Lee It seems Dogs Qld always do their own thing whether its right or wrong and dont care. They transferred a dog out of my name as co owner and into other co owners name only a number of years ago - without my signature or knowledge and I could do nothing about it. That is terrible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukan Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 The breeder has not moved house....he has the same home number and has a web site with email address and phone number. I would rank that in the 'contactable' basket! Oh yeh...he's not dead either! In the meantime the owner of the dog has gotten 'specialist' (and other) judges to go over the dog and some wrote a critique. Two of the judges are DIRECT competitors of the breeder and one had given the litter brother a RUBIS! The other had given him a BIG! Conflict of Interest perhaps??? All written critiques were submitted as part of the evidence (apparently, as the breeder was not supplied with the evidence in full). This is all completely irrelevant by the way as CCC(Q) actual definition of the Limited Register does not mention (or even elude to) quality, or lack thereof required either for main/limited registration!! Add to this, there is NOTHING in the CCC(Q) Rules and Regs/Constitution that validates this is a legitimate way of getting a dog moved to the MR. So I'm not sure why anyone could be told that at the CCC(Q) office. (a secret rule or regulation perhaps?) Anna-Lee Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that he had moved or died at all, was just giving what Dogs Qld staff member told me as a possibility, I wonder whether the new owner claimed he couldn't contact the breeder and hence the other "ëvidence" was determined to be sufficient? Ruth No problem Ruth There is a 'provision' such a transfer could be done BUT it is transfer of ownership.....NOT transfer between registers. It's on pg 18 in the CCC(Q) Rules and Regs (available on their web site ) Rule 83 a to e........ a. The CCC(Q) may in special circumstances transfer the registration of a dog despite the fact that a transfer signed by the registered owner or his legal representative has not been produced. b. Any person applying for registration in these circumstances (“the applicant”) must satisfy the CCC(Q): (i) That the applicant is entitled to be the registered owner (ii) Where the current address of the registered owner is known, or is ascertainable, that all reasonable attempts to have the registered owner sign a transfer in favour of the applicant have been made. (iii) Where the current address of the registered owner is not known and is not readily ascertainable that all reasonable attempts to locate the registered owner have been made. c. If the CCC(Q) is satisfied that the requirements of sub-rule b. have been complied with, it must give notice to the registered owner of its intention to accept the application for transfer. d. Such notice of intention should be either published in the official magazine of the CCC(Q) or sent by registered mail to the address of the registered owner shown in the records of the CCC(Q). e. If there is no response by the registered owner within 30 days of the date of publication or within 30 days of the date of the advisory letter, then the CCC(Q) may proceed to transfer the registration of the dog The transfers between registers could not be any clearer... page 19 86. A dog may be transferred between the General Register and the Limited Register subject to the following conditions:– a. A dog may be transferred once only from the Limited Register to the General Register if:– (1) An application for such transfer is lodged with the Secretary; and, (2) the application is signed by both the Registered owner and the Breeder; and, (3) The application includes justification for the action; and, (4) The application is approved by the Secretary. (5) Such a transfer will be considered once only in the life of the dog, and may be accepted or rejected at the discretion of the CCC(Q) . I think this is the concern....despite their own rules and regs they seem to make it up as they go along! Oh well, what can you do?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stolzseinrotts Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I am very keen to see the final outcome of this, it is a very big concern! It should never happen IMO, and if you can't trust your Canine Council to honour your written agreement, then who can you trust????? This is very scary and every breeder should be concerned! I can understand why some breeders do not wish to supply papers with a pup if this can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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