Yukan Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 As at 16 Aug 2011, Dogs QLD transferred a dog, sold (in NSW) on the Limited Register to the Main Register WITHOUT the breeders consent, knowledge or right of reply. This is a dangerous precedent and a Pandora's box! An appeal has been lodged to Dogs QLD. If you use the Limited Register this is a friendly heads up. You might not be as 'safe' as you think you are. Anna-Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 I hope it wasn't one of yours Anna-Lee, I'd be freaking horrified if a CC decided to upgrade one of my pets, without consent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Full story ? Are they going to allow this at any time with any dog now ? Or was this just a mistake in their administration & they won't acknowledge it ? Was the breeders signature forged on the paperwork ? Or did they say that the breeders signature is not needed to do this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoL Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 In NSW you need to sign a Stat Dec sign by a JP to change from Ltd to Main. The fact that this has happened is horrific and I hope a one-off admin mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukan Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 This is not an administrative mistake, No signatures were forged, No stat dec were produced (that the breeder knows of), and to answer "Are they going to allow this at any time with any dog now ?" ...well the precident has been set. 'eveidence' was produced (without breeders knowledge or or right of reply) and the 'council' made their decision to move the dog. The breeder was notifed by mail after the fact. An appeal is pending. Anna-Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 In that case I think now may be the time we all phone our councils in the other states & ask if this will be allowed in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lappiemum Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I'm not in QLD, but I had thought that if a dog was sold on limited register, that was that, unless there was a mutal agreement to transfer it over, regardless of which state the dog was now in. Can I ask under what regulation/s this has happened? I'm curious from a breeders point of view; if this is permissable in QLD as it would seem, then it does open the way for owners to transfer animals from one register to another at will, and would apparently nullify the purpose of limited register then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Question: In NSW do you have to get your puppy buyers to sign a CCC limited registration agreement like you do here in Qld? That is "supposed" to protect both parties here. Not the first time the CCCQ have not stood by their own bilaws and ethics with regards to the sale and transfer of papers.. I cannot say any more as it is still going through channels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakeydoak1 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Hi Mystiqview, no you dont, when you go to register the pups, you just choose limited or main. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Similar things have happened in the UK when a dog on our versio of the limited register have been upgraded simply by the dog being passed on to a third party and them saying they didn't know about the endorsements, so the KC lifts them. We are told to put into our contract that the buyer knows about and understands the endorsements, which is supposed to stop the KC the lifting them. Could the case in the OP be similar, ie a 3rd party who rehomed the dog claiming they thought/bought it for being on main reg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 This is not an administrative mistake, No signatures were forged, No stat dec were produced (that the breeder knows of), and to answer "Are they going to allow this at any time with any dog now ?" ...well the precident has been set. 'eveidence' was produced (without breeders knowledge or or right of reply) and the 'council' made their decision to move the dog. The breeder was notifed by mail after the fact. An appeal is pending. Anna-Lee Good Grief ! What about being on the side of their members first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shellbyville Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Hi Mystiqview, no you dont, when you go to register the pups, you just choose limited or main. In NSW the new owner needs to sign a limited Register Acknowledgement form when they go to transfer the pedigree registration certificate from the breeders name into their own name! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukan Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 ******UPDATE****** Dogs QLD did NOT upghold the appeal and the dog that was transfered from the Limited to the Main Register without the breeders knowledge or consent will stay on the Main Register. For those breeders who have ever put a dog on the L R and signed it over to the purchaser be carefull! This decision to benefit ONE CCC(Q) member has been carelessly made at the expense of ALL breeders, throughout Australia, who use the L R. And if legal action results then it will the CCC(Q) members who will foot the bill to fight it! If I was a CCC(Q) member I would be pretty cranky about this one! Anna-Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 ******UPDATE****** Dogs QLD did NOT upghold the appeal and the dog that was transfered from the Limited to the Main Register without the breeders knowledge or consent will stay on the Main Register. For those breeders who have ever put a dog on the L R and signed it over to the purchaser be carefull! This decision to benefit ONE CCC(Q) member has been carelessly made at the expense of ALL breeders, throughout Australia, who use the L R. And if legal action results then it will the CCC(Q) members who will foot the bill to fight it! If I was a CCC(Q) member I would be pretty cranky about this one! Anna-Lee surely there has to be some reason - have they given one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilaryo Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 ******UPDATE****** Dogs QLD did NOT upghold the appeal and the dog that was transfered from the Limited to the Main Register without the breeders knowledge or consent will stay on the Main Register. For those breeders who have ever put a dog on the L R and signed it over to the purchaser be carefull! This decision to benefit ONE CCC(Q) member has been carelessly made at the expense of ALL breeders, throughout Australia, who use the L R. And if legal action results then it will the CCC(Q) members who will foot the bill to fight it! If I was a CCC(Q) member I would be pretty cranky about this one! Anna-Lee surely there has to be some reason - have they given one? I was thinking the same thing! What justification did they give? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwarzbear Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Hi Guys, I sent an enquiry to the CEO of DogsNSW see last post. I then wrote to Rob Harrison see his reply below. Have taken my address details out. Interesting it still makes me worry. Regards, Sheila "Thank you for your email. I would advise you that as long as the transaction is completed correctly between yourself as the breeder and the new owner of the dog then Dogs Queensland would not interfere in this matter. Kind Regards Rob Harrison General Manager Dogs Queensland PO Box 495 Fortitude Valley Qld 4006 Phone (07) 3252 2661 Fax (07) 3252 3864 Website www.dogsqueensland.org.au ----- Original Message ----- To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 8:39 AM Subject: Advice regarding Limited Register Dear Mr. Harrison, I am seeking your advice on how when I sell a puppy on Limited Register in NSW and the owner has signed a statutory declaration indicating that they are fully aware of the ramifications of the pup being on Limited Register that when the pup’s registration is transferred in Queensland that my wishes are up held and the pup remains on Limited Register? It has come to my attention that an instance occurred where your Council upgraded a pup. I did pose this question to Christine Davies of Dogs NSW and she suggested that I contact your organization to get clarification. As I possibly have a litter due in October I would like to know what I should do. I only breed when I want something and the rest of the litter are all sold as pets. Your advice would be appreciated. Yours sincerely, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthjones Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 When I was in the Dogs Qld office a couple weeks ago I asked in a hypothetical manner and was told that if the Breeder was uncontactable or dead it could possibly be done if the owner had the support of specialists or judges qualified to ascertain that the dog in question was an exceptional representation of the breed. Not sure how this relates to the current situation but hypothetically it does make one worried, and determined to keep my contact details up to date! Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukan Posted September 29, 2011 Author Share Posted September 29, 2011 The breeder has not moved house....he has the same home number and has a web site with email address and phone number. I would rank that in the 'contactable' basket! Oh yeh...he's not dead either! This case has been going since 2009 when the breeder received an email requesting the dog be put on the main register as he has 4 week old pups and they would like to register them ???) Not only was the breeder alarmed that the dog had had a litter but it was also (at the time of the mating) still in the breeders name!! Then came emails to and fro. The breeder has offered the owner every option EXCEPT to put the dog on the main register with full breeding rights. Owner of the dog says "we will not be dictated to". The best that the owners could have done out of this at the time was to accept that the dog be moved to the main register with a breeding contract and built a bit of trust with the breeder. Remember...this person had already had a litter with this dog while on the limited register so perhaps they needed a bit of guidance?? A complaint from the dog owner to Dogs NSW (state that the breeder resides in) ensued. No joy, they said it was a contractual issue between the breeder and owner. (fair enough) In the meantime the owner of the dog has gotten 'specialist' (and other) judges to go over the dog and some wrote a critique. Two of the judges are DIRECT competitors of the breeder and one had given the litter brother a RUBIS! The other had given him a BIG! Conflict of Interest perhaps??? All written critiques were submitted as part of the evidence (apparently, as the breeder was not supplied with the evidence in full). This is all completely irrelevant by the way as CCC(Q) actual definition of the Limited Register does not mention (or even elude to) quality, or lack thereof required either for main/limited registration!! Add to this, there is NOTHING in the CCC(Q) Rules and Regs/Constitution that validates this is a legitimate way of getting a dog moved to the MR. So I'm not sure why anyone could be told that at the CCC(Q) office. (a secret rule or regulation perhaps?) I always thought that the biggest threat to our hobby would be the Animal Rights/Liberation groups but an administrative body undermining breeder rights coupled with bullying tactics will add to diminishing membership. Disappointed that a governing body can decide the fate of your breeding stock! Undermining your effort, investment and dedication! Anna-Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukan Posted September 30, 2011 Author Share Posted September 30, 2011 "I would advise you that as long as the transaction is completed correctly between yourself as the breeder and the new owner of the dog then Dogs Queensland would not interfere in this matter." I find it extraordinary that this should be the official response. Firstly what does that mean? Secondly, the breeder signed the back of the papers and (from memory) they were taped to the crate when the puppy was sent at 9 weeks of age........and two years later the new owner signed the the papers and paid for the transfer AFTER he had been mated to their bitch. The breeder most certainly comleted his part of the transaction correctly. As a side note CCC(Q) still have not cited the regulation or rule that has been broken here! As I said EXTRODINARY! Anna-Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyntervale Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 (edited) ... nothing to see here.... except a cat walking on my keyboard.... Edited September 30, 2011 by Lady of the Ghans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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