2 Staffys Euthanised After Attacking Young Boy

[persephone]

but I am voting we get rid of our current numpty pollies and vote in Poodlefan who as ever is the voice of reason.

You don't need any other policies, common sense would go a long way.

[KatrinaM]

Hi Poodlefan, just wondering why you would choose hunting as a like to know above many other important factors, ie reproductive status, level of socialization and training? Especially since if these dogs are Staffs they are by the vast majority considered unsuitable for hunting. It's kind of like wondering if a German Shepherd had been used as a fighting dog. Although, sadly, hunting dogs are becoming increasingly popular with the WRONG owners and I fear we will see more of them problematic until a new type finds favor. Nothing to do with the dogs, just the owners and not saying for a second that this does or doesn't apply in the case above.

[trifecta]

For Jarvis & others who are interested in learning more about dog body language & signs of fearfulness check out Dr Sophia Yin on the net. For kids & families she does a poster & tear off hand-outs showing how to recognize signs of fear & anxiety in dogs. Have a look here for a free download

Edited August 27, 2011 by trifecta

[bullyfan]

Jarvis, here's somewhere to read, the program run in Victoria is now being run in NSW. You might find information on the NSW DPI site but I didn't look.

http://new.dpi.vic.gov.au/pets/environment-and-community/we-are-family

Follow the page links on the left hand side for further information.

[Rottshowgirl]

The We Are Family program is also being presented in SA

[bullyfan]

I'd also recommend a book by Martin Mckenna, "What's your dog telling you?" It's a very easy read and informative.

[bullyfan]

The We Are Family program is also being presented in SA

EXCELLENT!!

[Adnil444]

The "We are Family" program sounds like a terrific idea and should be pushed with all councils/regions. When my son was in daycare, they had a man come in and teach them about dog safety - what to do when you approach a strange dog, if a strange dog approaches the child etc etc. It was really worthwhile and it would be good if all schools/daycare centre could run with something like this as well.

[poodlefan]

Hi Poodlefan, just wondering why you would choose hunting as a like to know above many other important factors, ie reproductive status, level of socialization and training? Especially since if these dogs are Staffs they are by the vast majority considered unsuitable for hunting. It's kind of like wondering if a German Shepherd had been used as a fighting dog. Although, sadly, hunting dogs are becoming increasingly popular with the WRONG owners and I fear we will see more of them problematic until a new type finds favor. Nothing to do with the dogs, just the owners and not saying for a second that this does or doesn't apply in the case above.

Because a hunting dog that hasn't been socialised with kids might react differently to a family pet.

Two dogs were involved in the attack... something triggered it. If it was prey drive then perhaps a hunting background might explain it.

[trifecta]

Hi Poodlefan, just wondering why you would choose hunting as a like to know above many other important factors, ie reproductive status, level of socialization and training? Especially since if these dogs are Staffs they are by the vast majority considered unsuitable for hunting. It's kind of like wondering if a German Shepherd had been used as a fighting dog. Although, sadly, hunting dogs are becoming increasingly popular with the WRONG owners and I fear we will see more of them problematic until a new type finds favor. Nothing to do with the dogs, just the owners and not saying for a second that this does or doesn't apply in the case above.

Because a hunting dog that hasn't been socialised with kids might react differently to a family pet.

Two dogs were involved in the attack... something triggered it. If it was prey drive then perhaps a hunting background might explain it.

Most breeds of dogs will work in pairs.

For instance, in rural areas it is quite common for people to have a pair of foxies or terriers as house or yard dogs; one will go for the front end of a snake while the other will take a chunk out of its back end while it is distracted, then when the snake turns, the front dog goes in for the kill. This behaviour is not limited to terriers, I have also witnessed it in Chi crosses. The little pair were reported to have killed 10 or more snakes before the rearguard received a fatal hit.

[poodlefan]

Most breeds of dogs will work in pairs.

For instance, in rural areas it is quite common for people to have a pair of foxies or terriers as house or yard dogs; one will go for the front end of a snake while the other will take a chunk out of its back end while it is distracted, then when the snake turns, the front dog goes in for the kill. This behaviour is not limited to terriers, I have also witnessed it in Chi crosses. The little pair were reported to have killed 10 or more snakes before the rearguard received a fatal hit.

And yet an attack on a child in the backyard by two dogs seems "unusual" outside a prey scenario.

[Jarvis]

Thanks trifecta and bullyfan for the info. Really appreciate it.

[KatrinaM]

Hi Poodlefan, thanks for that, but any dogs that havnt been socialised will react in this way, hunting dog or not. The whole pack thing is instinctual. Were these dogs family pets or where they dogs that just happened to be confined to the same property that a family lived? Were they dogs that somebody sooled onto a small pig in a cage or were they trained hunting dogs? Were they kept chained? Were they kept as guard dogs? Was one of them on heat? Were they desexed? Had children previously been tormenting them? Did their parents have questionable temperaments? Was there an underlying medical problem? So many questions that could help solve the dog bite puzzle that are never asked or answered.

[Kajirin]

Dog safety programs in schools do work. Local school had someone in [now can't remember the name of the actual program...think it was a delta dog one?]. But a dog came wandering into the school during a lunch break. Instead of the kids all clamouring around trying to pat it, they gave it it's space and didn't approach. Let the on duty teacher know etc. School rang the council, but by the time they came the dog was long gone.

But the kids all remembered the lessons in dog safety and acted accordingly [these were r-7 kids with more reception/year 1's].

[cybergenesis]

I believe as a general rule, young children (say under 5), shouldn't be allowed around dogs, even with adults supervision. This is unless the owners know what they are doing and know the temperament and behavior of the dog very well.

Young children get attacked because dogs regard them as small animals, they do not see them as the fragile, "precious" offspring of adults. The problem is when the dog sees the child as lower in the pack than it is, or interprets the child is challenging it.

As a general rule (except in circumstances where the owners actually know what they are doing), children should not be allowed around dogs that are not trained in how to behave around dogs, and that are not trained to read the warning signs of dogs. Very young children cannot understand these things, and may misinterpret things such as a dog snarling, as a dog smiling.

I am not saying there are not freak dog attacks without obvious reason, but in most cases, the situation is predictable and avoidable. For example dogs that are raised from puppy age with children running around them and playing with them, tend to be much more comfortable around children, than a dog which only occasionally has access to children.

[cybergenesis]

Thing is snook attacks can happen when the parent is there. Sometimes the "always supervise" message gives parents a false sense of security. A dog attack happens in a second. Some dogs are bred not to give specific warnings (obviously not staffys).

Saw this happen last week....at a gathering where the family dog was allowed to be running around with 15 kids it didn't know. Dog and 2 year old boy were centimetres away from 5 adults when the boy reached out to pat the dog, got his finger tangled in the long curly hair on his ear, tried to pull his hand away, and the dog whipped round and bit him. The little boy was fine....the dog had amazing bite inhibition and didn't leave a mark, but 5 adults were within arms reach of him and it still happened. I was on the other side of the room and saw a split second freeze, but what "sort of supervising, sort of chatting" adult or oblivious 2 year old would have seen that?

It wouldn't happen at my place because I would never allow a 2 year old around a dog. You would want to have absolute confidence in the temperament and socialization of a dog to allow it around a 2 year old (and that is only with strict, constant supervision). Very young children and dogs are a combination that scares me to be frank. Often (I am not saying always), allowing such a young child around a dog is irresponsible behavior in my book. Dogs are not teddy bears, they are animals and a child is often a smaller animal to them.

A problem is that many stupid owners think they "know" their dog, when they really don't understand their behavior. Some owners think their dogs are little people.

Edited September 1, 2011 by cybergenesis

[conztruct]

but I am voting we get rid of our current numpty pollies and vote in Poodlefan who as ever is the voice of reason.

You don't need any other policies, common sense would go a long way.

Totally agree!! But unfortunately, common sense is something that is no longer "common sense". There have been successful actions brought against manufacturers of say a cordless drill because their usage warnings did not include such gems as "Do not use this to trim your nose hair", "Do not use this to clean your ears", etc.

Ah yes, common sense - such a wonderful thing, yet apparently we are all too stupid to use it and our legal system of apportioning blame agrees . More is the shame.

Back on topic - look I know it's my house etc but if I had a child coming over there is no way I'd let them roam around with my dogs...I'd put them away because they haven't been around kids and I don't know how they'd react.