Crazy Daisy Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Terrible news My prayers and thoughts are with you for more positive news to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lolapalooza* Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 so sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Oh Jules that is no good, would that maybe help explain her fussiness with food a little???? I did actually wonder Liver as a friend had a dog with a liver issue that had a fluidy abdomen. Hope she is okay and you get more conclusive news soon. WnH had a dog diagnosed when he was older maybe she can offer you some knowledgable support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 So very sorry it's not the good news we were all hoping for. Still have fingers and paws crossed here, and we're all sending the best mojo we can find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esky the husky Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Thinking of you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 To be honest I've thought for a while that something was wrong and I had been looking up liver issues. It explains the food and why she is so little. She hasn't had any of the symptoms like vomiting or seizures though. She hasn't been ill but just not 'right' if that makes sense. She has urinary crystals too which explains her inability to hold herself overnight. Maybe she hasn't had more symptoms as I appear to be feeding how you should feed a dog with liver issues anyhow. The operation for the a liver shunt doesn't sound great. My philosophy has always been quality of life over quantity with as non-invasive approach as possible. This will really test me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 OMG JulesP, really feeling for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Sending all my best healing and nurturing vibes to you and your baby JulesP... ... and my furkids are sending all their slobbery kisses and good luck "woo-woos" at you both also... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigsaw Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Was hoping that it would be better news for you. Hoping you're both back together with each other soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 HEy Jules I have alerted WnH to your thread, she has had a dog with a liver shunt diagnosed later and has has the surgery and is all healthy now. Hopefully she will pop in with some helpful advice. So sorry it was something like this. OH and hindsight is a wonderful thing, so make sure you don't beat yourself up about not picking up on it sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) Hi Jules it's a bugger if it's a shunt, they are not something I would wish on any dog or owner that's for sure! How old is Amber? That is usually a big factor as to whether surgery is considered. My boy was diagnosed at around 9-10 months from memory he was about 11 months old when he had the surgery. He had intermittent vomiting which I put down to sensitive tummy, same with the odd bout of the runs. He never had seizures until after he'd had a really bad turn of pacing and head pressing after which he fell into a coma. When he came out of it he was having seizures and couldn't see or hear. Thankfully he recovered from that but yeah they aren't always textbook and a lot depends on their diet, the initial neuro problems seem to have started with me trying a new food which was higher in protein than the previous junk I had him on. Then the coma appears to have been triggered by the sedation from the abdominal xray he got when I took him in as part of the normal check for obstructions etc. I've heard of a lot of dogs having decent quality of life with diet and medical management, it can depend on the severity of the shunt and the amount of time they've been ok without medication. As far as surgery goes it depends on the type of shunt and the extent of it. If the bile acid tests indicate a shunt your vet should refer you to a specialist sonographer to detect the location of the shunt, if it's extrahepatic (outside of the liver) then surgery is your best bet it has a really good chance of success and if the shunt is successfully closed then your dog will be 100% normal for the rest of it's life. They use a small ring to place around the vessel which slowly closes off over time so as not to overload the liver, eventually the liver should grow and take on the job it was supposed to. If it's intrahepatic (inside the liver) as my dog's was it's a bit more complicated and risky. They have to shut down the blood flow to the liver and cut into it, it can be very difficult depending on how deep they had to go. At the time of his op they were unable to apply rings to intrahepatic shunts so what they do then is they stitch it halfway closed in the hopes that the liver will then take over once it has a bit of blood flowing through it. It has about 50/50 chance of doing the trick if it doesn't they usually do a second op to close the vessel down completely. Lucky for me one op did the trick and it's now 4 years later and my husky is a very normal very active boy he hasn't needed medications since the op and was taken off the low protein diet not long after that. His blood biochemistry is now perfectly normal so he is very much the poster child for a successful op Anyway that's the low down on the surgery options for you, your best bet is to get onto a canine internal medicine specialist they will be able to help you through it. ETA pic of my boy not long after he had the staples out, you can see they opened him up from sternum right down, they actually had to cut through the sternum and diaphragm to follow the shunt and make sure it didn't diverge. Edited August 24, 2011 by WoofnHoof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Thanks WnH. I guess it is likely to be an internal shunt as it looks like that is what bigger breeds have. Amber is 18 months. Her symptoms have been pretty mild. She was bouncing and running in the paddock last night and was pretty lively this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) Yeah when I was reading up the bigger dogs are more likely to have intrahepatic, no real guarentees with these things though. Sounds like she's doing pretty well in spite of it and she's still pretty young, mine was relatively normal as a pup other than the tummy issues. He would have 'off days' I used to call them where he looked a bit ordinary and not as bouncy as usual, in hindsight that is the symptom they term as 'depression'. When he was on the diet and meds he was ok but still getting sick on occasion so I was glad I opted for the surgery, of course I don't know how I'd feel if it had gone the other way. His prognosis wasn't great without surgery I was told he'd probably only live another year or two so I figured it was worth the punt. Oh yeah it is also pretty damaging on the finances, the op alone was $5k then I had ulrasounds, meds, special diet etc on top of that. Although the quote given for the op was between 3 and 6 so it really depends on a lot of things it might be quick in and out it might be more complicated like my fellow's was. He was costing $60 a week to feed on the low protein diet as he just wolfed it down it was the first time he could eat something that didn't make him sick I guess the poor bugger. ETA the ultrasound showed he had bladder crystals also, they cleared up on their own after surgery. Edited August 24, 2011 by WoofnHoof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 How did you weigh up the risk of surgery WnH? It looks like complications can be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskedaway Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I'm so sorry Jules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Bloody hell Jules No words for what you've been through the past 12 months More positive thoughts for Amber's prognosis xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 How did you weigh up the risk of surgery WnH? It looks like complications can be an issue. TBH I didn't really weigh it up very much I was told of all the risks but after having such a terrible fright with nearly losing him when he went into the coma and dramas with misdiagnosis once I had a diagnosis I just wanted him fixed. I did have to wait for the bank to approve the loan but after that it was full steam ahead I just figured it was worth the shot at a normal life rather than try to medically manage it and possibly still lose him anyway. It's a personal decision of course but for me it was a fairly easy one to make because I'd nearly lost him once already and not knowing what it was or what I could do so when I had an answer and a treatment that could make him completely healthy it made it easier to take the chance. Plus we had the best surgeon in the world in the country at the time she had the highest success rate which also gives a certain amount of confidence I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coogie Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Really sorry to hear about Amber,sending good thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Apart from the little niggly stuff Amber seems perfectly healthy. All a bit of a spin out really. Lucky I didn't get her desexed as that could have been ugly with the anesthetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundyburger Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Ohhh Jules... Thinking of you both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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