Rebanne Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 sorry to hear about Amber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Apart from the little niggly stuff Amber seems perfectly healthy. All a bit of a spin out really. Lucky I didn't get her desexed as that could have been ugly with the anesthetic. Yeah Sonny was ok but very very woozy after his desexing took him a little while to bounce back, in hindsight it was another sign that something was NQR but he didn't crash like he did with the xray but he was already crook when he had that. When I looked back there were a few little signs but in and of themselves there was nothing big enough to put it all together until he started showing the neuro signs and even then my vets had never come across a shunt before so it wasn't on their radar at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossumCorner Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 So sorry this has come along Jules, just devastating to hear. It has been a shocker week, seems one lot of bad news after another, animals and people. When do you hear from the vet again, tonight or tomorrow? Just so feel for you, it's not fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 So sorry the news is not good , and sending you strenghening thoughts .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverStar-Aura Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I'm sending healing vibes to Amber and huge hugs to you Jules. I really hope things start looking up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flick_Mac Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I hope everything goes smoothly jules.... we just had our liver surgery lectures and the lecturer (a specialist surgeon) seemed to think that surgical treatment was really good and worth doing in most cases - it will give a fix and require no medication long-term all going well. Going over my notes it looks like most of the compications are from closing the shunt too quickly - they need to be closed slowly. 35% of larger dogs still have the extrahepatic shunt so if that is it, and it was my dog, I'd do surgery no question. Feel free to PM me and I'd be happy to email you my lecture notes if you'd like a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 So sorry this has come along Jules, just devastating to hear. It has been a shocker week, seems one lot of bad news after another, animals and people. When do you hear from the vet again, tonight or tomorrow? Just so feel for you, it's not fair. Yeah I was feeling fairly shit about Gen as it was. Bile tests will be back tomorrow. I hope everything goes smoothly jules.... we just had our liver surgery lectures and the lecturer (a specialist surgeon) seemed to think that surgical treatment was really good and worth doing in most cases - it will give a fix and require no medication long-term all going well. Going over my notes it looks like most of the compications are from closing the shunt too quickly - they need to be closed slowly. 35% of larger dogs still have the extrahepatic shunt so if that is it, and it was my dog, I'd do surgery no question. Feel free to PM me and I'd be happy to email you my lecture notes if you'd like a look. Thanks for that info Flick_Mac. Did they give a life expectancy after the operation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 and from me. And licks and cuddles from Kenzie. Follow your heart, it will make the right decision for you at the right time. You will know what to do. Makes me think back to almost 2 months ago, and really you do know when you should treat and when you should not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9angel Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Keeping you both in my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9angel Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) Ooops sorry - double post. Edited August 24, 2011 by k9angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Really sorry to hear about Amber - hang in there and hoping things will be OK for you and your lovely girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetson Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Thinking of you and Amber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) So sorry this has come along Jules, just devastating to hear. It has been a shocker week, seems one lot of bad news after another, animals and people. When do you hear from the vet again, tonight or tomorrow? Just so feel for you, it's not fair. Yeah I was feeling fairly shit about Gen as it was. Bile tests will be back tomorrow. I hope everything goes smoothly jules.... we just had our liver surgery lectures and the lecturer (a specialist surgeon) seemed to think that surgical treatment was really good and worth doing in most cases - it will give a fix and require no medication long-term all going well. Going over my notes it looks like most of the compications are from closing the shunt too quickly - they need to be closed slowly. 35% of larger dogs still have the extrahepatic shunt so if that is it, and it was my dog, I'd do surgery no question. Feel free to PM me and I'd be happy to email you my lecture notes if you'd like a look. Thanks for that info Flick_Mac. Did they give a life expectancy after the operation? I know Flick Mac will probably have more recent figures but I was given the 50/50 for the intrahepatic (I think there is a small risk of needing a second op with the extrahepatics but obviously not as much). Then I was told about 30% of patients have post-op seizures which can be fatal my dog was on 24 hour seizure watch for 3 days post op, you aren't allowed to see them in that time either in case they get overexcited they need to be kept very quiet. I can't remember what the risk of portal hypertension is but the risk is there I was told that if that happens they have to go back in and open the shunt back up either a bit or a lot to relieve the pressure on the underworked liver. If they make it through post op and the liver takes over and function becomes normal they have a normal life expectancy. I was told that because of the lack of blood flow and 'work' for the liver it tends to shrink further and further and can shut down completely which then leads to other problems. That's why they don't tend to give an estimate of more than a year or so after diagnosis. ETA just wanted to add recovery is amazingly quick I took my boy home after a week and it was a struggle to keep him quiet unitl he got the staples out he was feeling so good Edited August 24, 2011 by WoofnHoof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flick_Mac Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 With regards to needing a second op that's if the first op doesn't completely close the shunt after 4-6 weeks. If you close the shunt any faster than that the main complication is the portal hypertension that WnH was talking about. As far as my notes say, if surgery goes well life expectancy isn't reduced. Minimising chances of post-op seizures is done by medical treatment for about 4weeks prior to surgery, and courses of antibiotics, worming them etc The stats I have for complications for an intrahepatic shunt: 70-75% clinical improvement after closing a single intrahepatic shunt Surgical mortality of 11-25% There is sometimes no improvement despite surgery She also says to get a liver biopsy prior to surgery to ensure it isn't Hepatic Microvascular Dysplasia - which is like lots of tiny shunts throughout the liver. This is managed with drugs and diet etc. They also say that they can remove the urinary calculi at the same time as closing the shunt so that might be something to consider if you do go ahead if it is infact a shunt. Hope that helps! It's pretty well straight from my lecture notes... sorry if it isn't totally logical... I had a chicken medicine exam this morning and am brain fried! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Sibs Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Oh, I had to come on here before bed to check how amber is doing Sending you lots of hugs and Amber healing vibes!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie P Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Hope Amber gets better soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Well she is feeling pretty damn good this morning! Barked at me to feed her. Is barking at Poppy to play and doing massive big play leaps into the air. She ate the I/D tinned food I gave her. Totally different dog today then the last couple of days. Think diet is going to be really key in all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Good to hear she's feeling better today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Great to hear she is feeling better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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