Reactivity In Your Dog

[ChristineX]

Kavic has a good point - I know from experience with Duke, if I walked him outside the house, he would be in a 'non-coping' state of mind for around 48 hours.

Last year I ran an 'experiment' (I know, Corvus, not up to scientific standards) where I only took him to obed training or reactive rovers (yup, we are long term clients). He made progress in leaps and bounds! So it also seems that keeping stress levels to a minimum while you work on the issue can be quite important too. (in order words, for Duke, being outside stressed him beyond the point of quick resolution)

So this year, he is getting small walks outside the house. If I think he is getting a little stressed, we will just hang around in that spot. We're up to two houses either side of our driveway, at the moment. :D

With reactive dogs, its all about very small steps, slowly.

[wuffles]

I think that it probably depends on the dog. My dog is noticeably LESS reactive the more he is taken out and about and meeting new dogs.

[corvus]

Last year I ran an 'experiment' (I know, Corvus, not up to scientific standards) where I only took him to obed training or reactive rovers (yup, we are long term clients). He made progress in leaps and bounds! So it also seems that keeping stress levels to a minimum while you work on the issue can be quite important too. (in order words, for Duke, being outside stressed him beyond the point of quick resolution)

I'm an animal behaviour scientist. We have no scientific standards! At least, we try to have them but our study subjects usually have other ideas. They hardly ever react the way you anticipate, which usually means a lot of tweaking of methods goes on. Particularly if you're looking at something that hasn't been looked at before.

Having said that, have you considered that cutting down his stimulation and exercise actually put him into a mild depression? Less arousal = less reactive behaviour?

And having said THAT, you're probably right anyway. Trigger stacking in dogs can be a major problem. I've seen Erik fine with two different things on their own, but if they are both present together he starts barking. Add another trigger on top of that and he picks one and runs at them. He does give signs that he's vaguely bothered by something if I look hard enough, though. It helped a lot to consider his job to be noticing things and telling me with LAT. Then I started to notice the more subtle signals I had been missing. He has a look about him when he's thinking about barking at something.

[poodlefan]

Having said that, have you considered that cutting down his stimulation and exercise actually put him into a mild depression? Less arousal = less reactive behaviour?

Or alternately, cutting down stimulation simply resulted in a lower overall level of arousal and therefore less reactive behaviour. Highly aroused dogs trigger more easily than less aroused dogs. If the dog's arousal level was kept at levels where its system wasn't constantly flooded with adrenaline, it would trigger less easily.

Edited August 25, 2011 by poodlefan

[BC Crazy]

At the risk of sounding like a complete dummy LOL was wondering what LAT is.

[BC Crazy]

I think it's fair to say that most Border Collies will be reactive to movement. It is who they are.

Most Border Collies also seem to have a strong sense of what is appropriate (or not) for dog to dog manners as well.

There are also many BC lines predisposed to fearful behavior.

Saying that, as Border Collie owners, we should never let these 3 things excuse bad behavior from our dogs.

Having dealt with all 3 issues above in various degrees, my thoughts are:

I do not encourage my BCs to socialize with strange dogs, they don't need it.

I do not take them to off leash parks, they don't need it.

I am always aware of my dogs and what is around them. I make sure I see things before they do.

They learn to share food, toys & me with the other dogs from a young age.

I will never punish my dogs if they react/discipline/snap at a rude dog running at or jumping on them.

I have built a strong reward system with them which means they are more interested in me than in other dogs.

I develop a strong bond with them and keep their minds and bodies occupied with training, both sheep & agility.

I take advantage of (and encourage) their natural tendency to be tennis ball/toy obsessed. If all else fails, lol, I can use this obsession to distract them from anything they may be reactive to.

Agree 100 % & am doing very similar things with my 2. My little girl is not doing all that well with the sharing with other dogs though but we are working on it ;) Also I do take mine to a leash free beach but I pick who they play with & that is very,very few.

[Tassie]

At the risk of sounding like a complete dummy LOL was wondering what LAT is.

BC Crazy - Complete dunnies are the ones who don't ask when they need to know something

In this context, LAT means the Look at That game as set out in Leslie McDevitt's book and DVD Control Unleashed. Well worth getting hold of IMO. (If it was in an obedience competition thread, it would likely mean left about turn. )

LAT as in Look at That has been talked about and described a bit lately, so hopefully it will turn up in a search.

[BC Crazy]

At the risk of sounding like a complete dummy LOL was wondering what LAT is.

BC Crazy - Complete dunnies are the ones who don't ask when they need to know something

In this context, LAT means the Look at That game as set out in Leslie McDevitt's book and DVD Control Unleashed. Well worth getting hold of IMO. (If it was in an obedience competition thread, it would likely mean left about turn. )

LAT as in Look at That has been talked about and described a bit lately, so hopefully it will turn up in a search.

Thanks Tassie, so there is hope for me yet you reckon. I dunno. I'd like to get that Control Unleashed DVD. Will have a bit of a search on here too. My girl is very reactive to most things so we

may well benefit from trying it out.

[ChristineX]

Hi Wuffles (where's the welcoming wave of friendship when you want it),

Duke was a rescue (i didn't rescue him, just gave him a home) and from what I and the dog shrink can work out, the only times he ever went outside of a house/property was to be moved on. He's triggered very very easily, and even after 3.5 years doesn't have fabulous coping skills with anything that is outside of 'normal'. So I think that it is very easy to cascade his triggers - which are pretty much too much of noise/sound/smells/external stimuli (think kitchen/people/dog/garden/traffic/frustration/happiness - poor boy still has problems because he is trying to take note of all of them at the same time).

And each dog will be totally different, with different causes/reasons and reactions to different ways of doing things. I've seen enough of that at reactive rovers over the past 3 years.

I'm just thankful that my other dog is totally opposite - rock solid calm! (which is amazing - because the new deer antler chews yesterday sent duke into hyperspace - and he re-directed that onto Kate. End result - one torn ear and shocky Kate who didn't see it coming. Who has already forgiven him. Deer antlers put away in very high cupboard for now.)

[ChristineX]

Forgot to add - when I cut down the walks, I upped the training at home.

[Max#1]

Kavik - our park isn't a dog park, its a normal park, that sometimes dogs come to. That situation is fine.

What I don't do is street walking - dogs barking at fences, having to walk past other dogs closely on footpaths, the random roaming dogs - just too stressful. I literally drive less than 1 km to the park (and my car suffers the consequences, especially in rainy weather ).

Good luck ChristineX.

Lately I've been putting extra effort into training for calm. And its started to work, I can calm him down from being excited/aroused. At the end of our obedience class he's on his back for a tummy rub despite the other dogs around etc etc. But I don't think I could keep him in a low level of arousal 24/7 - he's not that kind of dog. He sleeps with one eye open.

[Nekhbet]

it depends what causes the reactivity. Decreasing the incidence of stumulation can sometimes frustrate the dog and cause a greater reaction when in fact you do end up meeting the taget of its anxiety. You cant fix behaviour by avoiding things. It's not always practical and not always fair on the dog either. I dont advocate people simply trying to shove their dogs into situations that elicit responses WITHOUT professional help but with professional help it can be a good learning experience for the dog.

[corvus]

BAT and CAT could be argued to be based on eliciting a response. It's not rocket science. Just keeping it low key so the response elicited is one you want to reward.

ETA BAT= Behaviour Adjustment Training, CAT= Constructional Aggression Treatment. Both use R- to some extent, I think.

Edited August 25, 2011 by corvus

[Vickie]

It's not rocket science.

did you know you say that a lot on this forum in regards to dog training?

[Pretty Miss Emma]

It's been really interesting to read everyone's replies. It certainly seems there are some patterns I can see (as well as many many individual differences!!!).

Anyway, we had a really good weekend and the munchkin coped really well at agility tonight. Mainly I think this was due to me!! My reinforcement rate for what I'm wanting has increased and also I've felt a bit calmer about how to deal with things. I think I am giving her signals unknowingly, so that is something I want to investigate further and do some more work on.

But it's so nice to have positive moments with a reactive dog and for me I think that's part of what helps me get more confidence and stop givng her the signals that set her off. We had a great few days and I think that sets me up to feel better about dealing with her issues and see that we can improve.

Thanks for sharing your stories, partly it's just nice to know that there are other people out there dealing with dogs with similar issues (and part of me says thanks to all of us for dealing with our dogs as we do because it could be awful for them if they were living in households that weren't equipped or willing to deal with their special ways!) and aI always like to hear the many different ways similar problems can be managed.

[BC Crazy]

It's been really interesting to read everyone's replies. It certainly seems there are some patterns I can see (as well as many many individual differences!!!).

Anyway, we had a really good weekend and the munchkin coped really well at agility tonight. Mainly I think this was due to me!! My reinforcement rate for what I'm wanting has increased and also I've felt a bit calmer about how to deal with things. I think I am giving her signals unknowingly, so that is something I want to investigate further and do some more work on.

But it's so nice to have positive moments with a reactive dog and for me I think that's part of what helps me get more confidence and stop givng her the signals that set her off. We had a great few days and I think that sets me up to feel better about dealing with her issues and see that we can improve.

Thanks for sharing your stories, partly it's just nice to know that there are other people out there dealing with dogs with similar issues (and part of me says thanks to all of us for dealing with our dogs as we do because it could be awful for them if they were living in households that weren't equipped or willing to deal with their special ways!) and aI always like to hear the many different ways similar problems can be managed.

Yes it's nice to know we are not alone. Glad to hear things are improving for you & the munchkin I think confidence has lots to do with a positive outcome & remaining calm. Sometimes much easier said than done.

I am working on the very same thing as you & I am very gradually seeing a glimmer of light at the end of a very long tunnel.

[Pretty Miss Emma]

Ok, so I just wanted to share two moments that have occurred in the last 48 hours that have made me realise that I must be doing something right.

Small successes are great things sometimes!!!!

So at agility our agility class I play LAT all the time with Kenzie so that she can deal with the other dogs working around her. It works pretty well most of the time. Last night I feel like we had some major break throughs!!!! SHe was able to look at the dog I asked her to look at and every time was perfectly behaved and did a lovely look and then look back to me!! She was also able to spend almost all of her "sitting and waiting" time just hanging out in a relaxed manner - yay!!!! Other dogs ran over jumps - she just looked at me!! So yay, I feel like we made some progress!!!! :D

Then there was this morning... Young Kenzie has been a shocker at the psycho spins when the bus goes past us on our walks. I've been working hard on that one and asking her for a sit so she can look at the bus as it goes past us. She's been doing really well at that, but usually with me pre-empting it and asking for the sit. This morning while we were walking she sits down and starts looking behind me - the bus was coming! And she did her routine of sitting, look at the bus, look at me, look at the bus, look at me!!!! I have to say I was pretty excited that she "told me" that the bus was coming and went straight into her "management" behaviour. And then after the bus had passed we just kept going with our walk - no signs of heightened arousal, no stress signs, just a nice walk!!!!

Sometimes it's the simple things that make the day start well!!!

[corvus]

Awesome!

[Jeff Jones]

it depends what causes the reactivity. Decreasing the incidence of stumulation can sometimes frustrate the dog and cause a greater reaction when in fact you do end up meeting the taget of its anxiety. You cant fix behaviour by avoiding things. It's not always practical and not always fair on the dog either. I dont advocate people simply trying to shove their dogs into situations that elicit responses WITHOUT professional help but with professional help it can be a good learning experience for the dog.

Dog that scared of stuff have weak nerve no? people often come to me with weak nerve dog thinking he tough dog, good for police dog no? they say Jeff my dog so tough he bark at stuff, I say no your dog weak nerve and no good for work. My wife own labrador that tougher than this dog no? Aidan could train this dog with clicker no? he no train tough dog with fight drive like Belgian Malinois or Dutch Shepherd. I see tough dog like this in Europe.

Jeff

[corvus]