ludwig09 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Hi everyone, Our 2 mini schnauzers have slept in our bed since they were puppies. We have known it is wrong the whole time but continued to do it. But since we are going to become the leader of our pack we know that they need to sleep in there own bed. So i went and purchased two dog beds this morning. How do i get them to sleep in them? I can get them to hop into them for a treat for a few seconds but then they jump out. HELP!! Edited August 23, 2011 by ludwig09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 You don't need to kick the dogs off your bed, unless you want to. You can set the rules and boundaries, without kicking them off. Make their beds comfortable and put them in a warm place. I teach mine the command " in your bed " and lure them in with a treat and reward. With a bit of practice they will quickly get that. I also teach them the command " get off ". Moving your arms and legs around the bed is usually enough to disturb them and get them to move off. Mine come to bed with me but when I've had enough, I kick them off and tell them to get into their beds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Personally I don't think where your dogs sleep is that important for pack structure but I would suggest you investiate crate training them and put their beds in those - one crate each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosepup Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 There would be tears here if I kicked Moose out of bed (and they wouldn't all be his ). I like RSG's suggestion, teach them the 'bed' command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludwig09 Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 There would be tears here if I kicked Moose out of bed (and they wouldn't all be his ). I like RSG's suggestion, teach them the 'bed' command. Moosepup i think we will probably be more upset than the dogs too. I went to the vet this morning and he thought my dog has anxiety issues and that by getting them off our bed and into there own would help. We are also having a few other issues with them which just stems from lack of leadership by us. I just read an article on the net that sleeping together doesnt affect the pack leadership relationship. What does everyone else think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Sibs Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) If you want your dog to sleep on the bed with you, just let them. I don't think where dogs sleep is important to pack structure either. But maybe you can make them work for it, like they aren't allow on the bed unless you invite them on. You make them sit, get yourself settled in bed and invite them in bed with you, or something like that. The thought of Em not sleeping in bed with me is just too weird for my liking! Maybe you should see a dog behaviourist to help you with dealing with your anxious dog. Edited August 23, 2011 by CW EW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Moosepup i think we will probably be more upset than the dogs too. I went to the vet this morning and he thought my dog has anxiety issues and that by getting them off our bed and into there own would help. We are also having a few other issues with them which just stems from lack of leadership by us. I just read an article on the net that sleeping together doesnt affect the pack leadership relationship. What does everyone else think? Really? I wonder how he arrived at that diagnosis and how he decided that disrupting their normal sleeping arrangements would help. Can I politely suggest that you find a behaviourist or trainer you are happy with, get them to come and talk to you about your dogs and stick to what they (and only they) suggest for you and your dogs. Otherwise I think both you and your dogs are going to end up very confused about how to resolve the current issues you have. Asking for advice on an internet forum will only compound the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pollywaffle Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 there are no pack issues on our bed as long as OH and I sleep in our appropriate positions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosepup Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 there are no pack issues on our bed as long as OH and I sleep in our appropriate positions... Yes it's important one knows ones place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy82 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 There would be tears here if I kicked Moose out of bed (and they wouldn't all be his ). I like RSG's suggestion, teach them the 'bed' command. Moosepup i think we will probably be more upset than the dogs too. I went to the vet this morning and he thought my dog has anxiety issues and that by getting them off our bed and into there own would help. We are also having a few other issues with them which just stems from lack of leadership by us. I just read an article on the net that sleeping together doesnt affect the pack leadership relationship. What does everyone else think? I have heard the opposite. Being allowed to sleep on the bed can calm an anxious dog down and make them more relaxed, which in turn reduces their reactivity to things. When I got my poodle x she was used to sleeping on the bed in her foster home. I just put her bed next to our and put her back on it every time she jumped up on ours. I did that about 5-6 times the first night before she settled, then once the next night, and then never again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Personally I don't think where your dogs sleep is that important for pack structure but I would suggest you investiate crate training them and put their beds in those - one crate each. But clear rules and boundaries (no matter what the rules are) do often work for dogs with "problems". I know my mini schnauzer is less pushy and less anxious when she has some very clear rules, and that includes sleeping in her crate. As a general rule my dogs are very well behaved so they don't break many rules (so it is easy for them to think that there are no rules, if that makes sense). Creating some "fake" rules can help teach them that you provide structure and take care of things. I don't buy the whole "if the dog sleeps with you it will think it is boss" crap, but I do think clear rules and boundaries that you can enforce every single day do make the world of difference to an anxious dog. The sleeping off the bed thing was suggested by a very highly respected DOL behaviourist! I do agree that the OP should seek professional advice. Mini schnauzers are cute and lovely but they use their cuteness for evil too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdie Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) . Edited September 17, 2011 by Purdie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Yep same here - I sleep with three westies they have learnt to stay on 'their' side of the bed - and if they don't they get told (the word) 'off' and then once they are off to get into their own 'bed'. Only takes a couple of 'reminders' and they soon get the message! This was the only way I could deal with being left with 'the Gaza Strip' down the side - feeling like I was hanging on for dear life!! If the boys want to get on the bed they have to put their paws up on the side of the bed - its the way they say 'please can I get up on your bed' - and have to wait until I lift them up. Whereas my girl always comes around to my side of the bed, I invite her and she then goes around and gets up via her stairs!! (She's very polite!!) So I agree - its not about pack structure and bed location but about clear rules and boundaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodoggies2001 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I also have two mini schnauzers and my younger boy sleeps under the doona with me and has done so from basically the start. My older boy used to but now sleeps on the couch in the family room because he is almost blind and that decision was his. When they were both able, they never climbed on the bed unless invited and know when there is a bed cover on they are to stay of. If my bed sleeper gets off during the night he is not allowed to come on unless I tell him to. In the beginning, he wanted to be fed at 7am, until I startd to ignore him and now he doesn't bother me until I am ready to feed him when I am ready to. Sometimes I stretch it out until 8am. I agree, there is no dominance issue just because he shares our bed. He still knows his place in our hierarchy but we are fairly strict with both of them. Dogs are not stupid and are very much like children and if they find they can get away with something once, they will try again. We as owners need to set boundaries which I feel the dogs need and want. They are below us in the family ladder and need to know that. Are you the couple who bought new chairs and now the dogs sit in them instead of you and that they are banned off the couch and you both sit on the floor with them? There is no way this situation would happen in our home, but that doesn't mean we love our dogs any less. They just know their place. You need to set these boundaries and stick with them so most of all, the dogs don't get mixed messages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Personally I don't think where your dogs sleep is that important for pack structure but I would suggest you investiate crate training them and put their beds in those - one crate each. I am inclined to agree with the above, but only to a point and that point relates to individual dogs. See below (*). I think the most important factor is the "boundaries" component. IE The dogs sleeping on human's bed at the human's bidding, not their own. I also know that it is often far more difficult for a dog to learn to only sleep on the human's bed when specific permission to do so is given, when the dog is already well and truly accustomed to getting up there of its own accord anyway. Far clearer for the dog to learn the new rules if taught (a) to stay off the bed; and then, when that is learnt, to teach (b) to be able to get on when invited. (*) My own boy will ONLY come up on my bed or couch when invited. This is how it has been since day dot for him. But it is very clear to me that sharing my personal space means a lot to him in terms of his relationship with me. I notice deterioration of his behaviour and responses to me if I permit him to share my bed too many times in a row, and/or for him to stay on my bed with me completely over-night. I notice a bit of the same when I do similar with allowing him (on invitation) up on the couch with me, although I don't think this is quite as important to him. When I need to back him up and mind his manners, place and respect, not being invited on the couch or bed with me does bear as a factor to his improved behaviour. As a consequence of this, I disagree with anyone who says it makes no difference. Perhaps it doesn't to some. But I can certainly attest that it does to my boy. How many dogs are out there where people simply don't notice direct correlation between "bed/couch -vs- behaviour" ? ETA: I agree with crate training. Doing this makes it possible for errorless "stay off the bed" training. Edited August 23, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 It does matter wear your dog sleeps- as long as it had no behavoiural problems. If the dog as been correctly diagnosed as having a dominance problem (relatively rare), then sharing the bed is probably not the best idea. In fact many dogs with behavioural problems benefit from stricter rules (to a point), restriction of certain privileges and good human leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Q Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I have the opposite problem, I love sharing the bed and starting about 3 months ago Quinn flat out refuses to sleep on my bed. She'll get in when I'm not there but as soon as I come in and star getting ready she hops off and goes to her crate. Atleast Buster still likes to sleep with his head on the pillows so I don't feel too rejected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveretrievers Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I say leave them on the bed if you want. We don't sleep with the dogs but my husband gets itchy with too much pet hair and I can't imagine sleeping with two big dogs. Sigh they both sleep next to the bed and that's bad enough with the dog farts. Lucky I love them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludwig09 Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 I also have two mini schnauzers and my younger boy sleeps under the doona with me and has done so from basically the start. My older boy used to but now sleeps on the couch in the family room because he is almost blind and that decision was his. When they were both able, they never climbed on the bed unless invited and know when there is a bed cover on they are to stay of. If my bed sleeper gets off during the night he is not allowed to come on unless I tell him to. In the beginning, he wanted to be fed at 7am, until I startd to ignore him and now he doesn't bother me until I am ready to feed him when I am ready to. Sometimes I stretch it out until 8am. I agree, there is no dominance issue just because he shares our bed. He still knows his place in our hierarchy but we are fairly strict with both of them. Dogs are not stupid and are very much like children and if they find they can get away with something once, they will try again. We as owners need to set boundaries which I feel the dogs need and want. They are below us in the family ladder and need to know that. Are you the couple who bought new chairs and now the dogs sit in them instead of you and that they are banned off the couch and you both sit on the floor with them? There is no way this situation would happen in our home, but that doesn't mean we love our dogs any less. They just know their place. You need to set these boundaries and stick with them so most of all, the dogs don't get mixed messages. Yes that is us who brought the new chairs and the dogs sit in them not us. But i am happy to report that since getting them there own beds yesterday they have not even looked sideways at my chairs. They seem to be loving there new beds. Sleeping in them right now actually. Our boy even slept in his last night - his decision. We have decided to allow them to sleep in our bed if they chose but have now set boundaries and are inviting them onto the bed on our terms. It only begun yesterday so we have a little way to go, but so far so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) I've gotten so I can't sleep without hearing my old girl snore. Figure I've got more anxiety problems than the dogs. But jeez, I wish they wouldn't take naps on the bed when they're soaking wet or muddy :D. My bad. I should keep closer watch on their comings and goings. BFD. More laundry. Edited August 24, 2011 by sandgrubber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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