Taking Control

[ludwig09]

Hi everyone,

My two mini schnauzers are 2 and 1.5 and to be honest they control us and our house. They have some rules and they know how to sit etc but basically they rule the roost. I think we have let them get away with things because they are so cute and because we feel guilty about leaving them while we are working. They tend to go crazy in public, barking, pulling the lead, generally going nuts when we see another dog or person. How do we take control, how to we become the pack leader or is it to late?

Thanks in advance

[huski]

Good on you for recognising you need some help! IMO your best bet is to get professional help. If you let us know whereabouts you are located, we can refer you to someone in your area

[ludwig09]

Good on you for recognising you need some help! IMO your best bet is to get professional help. If you let us know whereabouts you are located, we can refer you to someone in your area

Thank you. We are in the Coffs harbour region.

[corvus]

This might be a good start:

http://www.hilltopanimalhospital.com/deferential%20behavior.htm

More info:

http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00470.htm

[**Super_Dogs**]

Hi everyone,

My two mini schnauzers are 2 and 1.5 and to be honest they control us and our house. They have some rules and they know how to sit etc but basically they rule the roost. I think we have let them get away with things because they are so cute and because we feel guilty about leaving them while we are working. They tend to go crazy in public, barking, pulling the lead, generally going nuts when we see another dog or person. How do we take control, how to we become the pack leader or is it to late?

Thanks in advance

I think there are some easy things you can start doing straight away.

Firstly stick to your rules. If they break them there should be a consequence. I personally find time out works.

The other thing is take the dogs out one at a time, not together, to work on their behaviour in public and be armed with lots of treats. Start in an environment with not too much stimulation.

Good luck!

[ESCS]

I don't think it's too late. I have a 2.5year old tibbie who also goes crazy when he comes across another dog. We worked with a behaviourist (Jane Harper)who got all of us (humans and dog) on track. She taught us a lot about establishing leadership, among other things. She also introduced us to the 'Nothing in Life is Free' concept which has made a big difference. Much as we love our tibbie, we have had to set firm boundaries and reinforce them or things unravel very quickly. He lost his sofa privileges about a year ago when he growled at my daughter for sitting on the sofa when he was already on it. We have an anxious dog and the more control I have, the less anxious he becomes and the calmer he is when we come across other dogs. He needs to trust that he can rely on me to protect him. Obedience classes was a big help too as I can now get him to heel and focus on me when we walk past other dogs.

Another thing that we did was to make sure that there was adequate distance between us and other dogs and over time, we have been able to get closer and closer until we can now walk past other dogs on the footpath provided they are on a lead.We gave him lots of praise and treats when he behaved calmly.

It took a while for us to get to this point so patience and persistence definitely helps!

All the best with your two little ones. The help of a behaviourist and obedience classes made all the difference. It really was worth every penny.Walks are now enjoyable rather than something to dread.

[Dogsfevr]

What are they like when you brush them.

Minis are super smart dogs & learn very quickly so never to late to retrain them .

First rule don't feel guilty ,spoiling them doesn't achieve anything as you have found out.

When you say spoil what do you mean ??

What exactly do they get away with ??

Minis are normally very easy dogs to live with

I have to ask are they black or Black/silver ??

[ludwig09]

What are they like when you brush them.

Minis are super smart dogs & learn very quickly so never to late to retrain them .

First rule don't feel guilty ,spoiling them doesn't achieve anything as you have found out.

When you say spoil what do you mean ??

What exactly do they get away with ??

Minis are normally very easy dogs to live with

I have to ask are they black or Black/silver ??

Hi Showdog,

Both my minis are black and silver and very cute i might add.

Some examples of how they get spoilt/get away with things:

*If I am trying to brush there hair and they dont like it i just stop.

*They sleep in our bed

*We decided they couldnt sit on the lounge anymore so now we sit on the floor with them because.

*When I take them walking now I try to avoid other people and dogs because I cant control them so think its easier just to change path.

*They bring sticks inside and i tell them not to but give in and let them make a mess and i spend ages cleaning up.

*We brought two beautiful tub chairs and now they sit on them and we sit elsewhere - usually on the step.

(I could go on all day)

Basically i try to discipline them and give up too easily. I know that is us who need the discipline. I used to have a jokey saying for them "you know the rules, there arent any" but as of today that is going to change. My main thing i would like to do is take them for a civilised non stressful walk everyday. They arent all bad, we do get a lot of enjoyment from them and they are smothered with love (prob another problem). We just need help.

Thanks

[ludwig09]

I don't think it's too late. I have a 2.5year old tibbie who also goes crazy when he comes across another dog. We worked with a behaviourist (Jane Harper)who got all of us (humans and dog) on track. She taught us a lot about establishing leadership, among other things. She also introduced us to the 'Nothing in Life is Free' concept which has made a big difference. Much as we love our tibbie, we have had to set firm boundaries and reinforce them or things unravel very quickly. He lost his sofa privileges about a year ago when he growled at my daughter for sitting on the sofa when he was already on it. We have an anxious dog and the more control I have, the less anxious he becomes and the calmer he is when we come across other dogs. He needs to trust that he can rely on me to protect him. Obedience classes was a big help too as I can now get him to heel and focus on me when we walk past other dogs.

Another thing that we did was to make sure that there was adequate distance between us and other dogs and over time, we have been able to get closer and closer until we can now walk past other dogs on the footpath provided they are on a lead.We gave him lots of praise and treats when he behaved calmly.

It took a while for us to get to this point so patience and persistence definitely helps!

All the best with your two little ones. The help of a behaviourist and obedience classes made all the difference. It really was worth every penny.Walks are now enjoyable rather than something to dread.

Thanks ESCS - I think a behaviourist would be good too. We have taken them to obedience and spent the majority of lessons in the time out naughty corner. Hence why my hubby is a little reluctant to spend more money on trainers. That was about 12 months ago now so maybe they have grown up a bit more since then.

[raz]

Wow your dogs have got you and your hubby worked out. You've both got TOTAL PUSHOVER engraved on your foreheads. Two new beautiful chairs just for them I think we need to see some photos.

What are they like when you feed them - wait politely or barge ass their way in? Check out the thread in training called Triangle of Temptation

[ludwig09]

Wow your dogs have got you and your hubby worked out. You've both got TOTAL PUSHOVER engraved on your foreheads. Two new beautiful chairs just for them I think we need to see some photos.

What are they like when you feed them - wait politely or barge ass their way in? Check out the thread in training called Triangle of Temptation

Actually anything to do with food they are good with. Wait politely and do not bother us when we are at the table. I will work on some pics for you. Then you will really think we are crazy. lol.

[raz]

Then you will really think we are crazy. lol.

That's OK you're in good company. I end up playing musical lounges every night because I have my lot draped all over me like dead weights.

[poodlefan]

Ludwig I think it might be useful to view your dogs through the paradigm of them not knowing any better than they do.

If they're a pain on the lead and with lack of focus on you, that's because these behaviours have to be taught.

You've indulged them and that's fine but along with the indulgence they need boundaries so they learn what is acceptable and what isn't.

A decent trainer spending one on one time with you and your dogs would work wonders but the start of the improvement but be recognition that you've got the dogs you created.

No need to dwell on that but with acceptance that you're part of the issue will come acceptance that you must be part of the solution. Tell Hubby to park his ego, get a decent trainer in, listen carefully and learn.

Those naughty dogs have the capacity to be well mannered and obedient - what stands between here and there is owners who instill and reward good behaviour through training. Without training, nothing will change. Maturity alone will not change this kind of behaviour.

It shoudn't require 'boot camp' to resolve this - just some rules and teaching your dogs that the best things in life come from you when they give you what you ask for.

Edited August 20, 2011 by poodlefan

[sheena]

Frankly, if they were mine I would go right back to basics & start training them as if they were new puppies. An excellent book which will take you through all this is "The Focused Puppy" available from Clean Run & currently on free shipping for $24.95. http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2502&ParentCat=449

And I would start off with TOT (Triangle of Temptation) an invaluable excercise in self control & dicipline which can be practiced several times a day..every time you give them something...practice TOT

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/64101-triangle-of-temptation/

It sound to me that maybe they have had very little training at all. I would also suggest such things as crate games (crate training) & learn how to use a clicker & condition them to this to play shaping games, teach them tricks etc. & above all be consistant.

Maybe join the Coffs Harbour Dog Training Club, that's the one we belong to for our agility, & maybe some of their classes, like Canine College could help, but I would be doing lots of training at home first, taking them right back to basics.

If you go to my website http://www.grevilleacottagebordercollies.com/ I have provided a page there with lots of suggestions for books/DVD's/training articles & games which we have found helpful in training our dogs. Sorry we don't sell the books etc, just recommend them

I don't think you would need to employ a behavourist at this stage, unless they are savage little buggers, just get in there & train them yourselves...have a go...it's not hard, it just takes time, patience & consistancy & make it fun.

[Weasels]

The first thing I would do is teach an 'OFF!' command to get your chairs and couches back!

If they are into food you could lure them off while giving them the command, then reward them heavily for being on the floor/dog bed/in crate. Sharing a chair or couch is one thing, but being on the floor with them or giving them brand new chairs - By using rewards they will feel good about getting off the furniture, instead of metaphorically muttering and grumbling about it

Keep in mind you aren't doing them favours by being inconsistent. They will be confused and unsure of what you really mean and what you don't, then sense you are unhappy with them and not know why. The kind thing to do is communicate clearly with them! No dog ever developed problems because they can't chew sticks inside, but many do if they don't understand how the household is run.

The reactivity on walks might need professional intervention, depending on seriousness. But avoiding other dogs at this stage is not a bad idea so they don't get a chance to practice the behaviour.

Best of luck