Child Killed By Dog

[raz]

Now, it is funny and we call this dog clever, well trained and cute. Replace this dog with a rottie, dobe, GSD or doG forbid a pittbull and its no longer funny, its serious stuff, that most would consider very dangerous.

I didnt say he was funny or cute. I said it was great team work!

[LizT]

Now, it is funny and we call this dog clever, well trained and cute. Replace this dog with a rottie, dobe, GSD or doG forbid a pittbull and its no longer funny, its serious stuff, that most would consider very dangerous.

I didnt say he was funny or cute. I said it was great team work!

However one must admit there is an air of "comic relief" in the way the routine is presented.

No one would seriously 'use' a dog of this size to do this work, it's clearly limited with it's feet off the ground, ;) but it does illustrate wonderfully the trainability of various breeds.

[black_dog]

I actually think some of you are being quite mean to Matthew B.

he is only saying, what most of the general public are saying, after the death of a child ...

Instead of mocking him, or even when some of you aren't mocking him, you call his argments stupid, and say, "what don't you get... " quite aggressive...

You won't win your points this way ..

Exactly. Plus no great value in agreeing with each other about how hopeless he is, and that you've won the argument QED.

The problem is that from the community persective something must be done following such an horrific attack. Yet from this thread:

- BSL does not work

- It is impossible to determine what sort of dogs attack

Education will not work with irresponsible owners. So then what?

[Aidan3]

The problem is that from the community persective something must be done following such an horrific attack. Yet from this thread:

- BSL does not work

- It is impossible to determine what sort of dogs attack

Education will not work with irresponsible owners. So then what?

McKeown Hypothesis.

[zayda_asher]

I actually think some of you are being quite mean to Matthew B.

he is only saying, what most of the general public are saying, after the death of a child ...

Instead of mocking him, or even when some of you aren't mocking him, you call his argments stupid, and say, "what don't you get... " quite aggressive...

You won't win your points this way ..

Exactly. Plus no great value in agreeing with each other about how hopeless he is, and that you've won the argument QED.

The problem is that from the community persective something must be done following such an horrific attack. Yet from this thread:

- BSL does not work

- It is impossible to determine what sort of dogs attack

Education will not work with irresponsible owners. So then what?

Actually there was information posted on models that have proven effective in other parts of the world but, as usual, people have ignored them.

[bulldogz4eva]

No - Labradors, Beagles, etc aren't bred as fighting dogs. Is that such a hard concept for the people in this forum to grasp?

So what are you saying Matthew? That labs, beagles etc can't bite people? That only certain types of dogs have the potential to be aggressive? If a lab or beagle bit someone, what would your reaction be?

OMG! How many times do I have to say it? Yes, any dog can bite - I've said this numerous times. That isn't the point. The point is that pitbulls have been bred as fighting dogs. That makes them an inherently dangerous breed to have around. Labradors, Beagles, Golden Retrievers aren't now, nor have they ever been bred as fighting dogs. They are renowned as 'family' dogs. Honestly, I feel like I am talking to a brick wall sometimes...

What part of human aggression vs animal aggression dont you understand.They were bred to fight other dogs not gladiators at the colloseum.

The fact they were bred for fighting clearly means they have a predisposition to aggressive behaviour. Whether the focus of their aggression in the past was other dogs or humans is irrelevant. They are a naturally aggressive dog.

It is not irrelevant it is more than relevant in the context of the discussion.Dog aggression has absoloutely nothing to do with human aggression.The fact that you dont understand this displays your ignorance.

ETA Are you sure you dont work for the Government because that is the same useless argument they have used in the past.

Edited August 25, 2011 by bulldogz4eva

[bulldogz4eva]

You didn't answer my question about the guarding breeds - there are a lot of breeds that have been and are used for guarding/security/protection/police and others that have historically been used for dogfighting. APBT do not have the monopoly on being used for some activity that used aggression.

I have never seen a fighting dog used in a role with Police or security guards. They aren't as controllable/trainable as dogs such as the German Shepherd. My brother was in the Army in QLD and good mates with an MP on the dog squad of the Army base guards. He said the level of self-control those dogs have is amazing. He saw a training scenario one day - in a bite suit one of the MP's ran from a dog that was sent to detain him. Just before the dog reached the guard in the bite suit, the dogs' handler issued an order to stop the chase and to return to his side. It did so immediately, without hesitation. Bet a pitbull wouldn't have that kind of restraint. Why do you think they aren't used in this role?

blah blah blah blah blah blah.

They are not used because they are a restricted breed and will not be used in any service role that requires them to bite a human in this country becuase of the force and becuase of publicity.It doesnt take a genius to work that out but you already know that troll.

American Pitbull Terriers are just dogs they can be trained for a variety of purposes just like any other dog.Keep dribbling.

Edited August 25, 2011 by bulldogz4eva

[Aidan3]

Actually there was information posted on models that have proven effective in other parts of the world but, as usual, people have ignored them.

QFT

[raz]

Now, it is funny and we call this dog clever, well trained and cute. Replace this dog with a rottie, dobe, GSD or doG forbid a pittbull and its no longer funny, its serious stuff, that most would consider very dangerous.

I didnt say he was funny or cute. I said it was great team work!

However one must admit there is an air of "comic relief" in the way the routine is presented.

No one would seriously 'use' a dog of this size to do this work, it's clearly limited with it's feet off the ground, ;) but it does illustrate wonderfully the trainability of various breeds.

There is no comedy there

[raz]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-25/rspca-rejects-pitbull-crossbreed-sale-claim/2856002

A row has broken out between two of Victoria's animal welfare organisations in the wake of last week's fatal dog attack in St Albans.

The Melbourne Lost Dogs Home has accused the RSPCA of selling pitbull terriers back into the community under the guise of staffordshire crossbreeds.

RSPCA Victoria rejects the allegation, maintaining that dogs should be judged on their deeds, not their breeds, and that it is operating within the law.

It has been a week since four-year-old Ayen Chol was mauled to death by a pitbull crossbreed that was not registered.

The dog has been destroyed and state politicians are preparing to table new laws to regulate dangerous dogs.

"There has been contention about crossbreeds and we are going to have a visual code that we will bring in next week as well that will resolve this issue," said Agriculture Minister Peter Walsh.

The RSPCA agrees that identifying crossbreeds is contentious.

"It's very difficult to assess an animal by its breed type, by its appearance," shelter manager Allie Jalbert said.

"There's specifications that the Victorian Government has put forward and they're the specifications that we use."

At the Lost Dogs Home, appearance is enough to determine breed.

"My view is that if it looks like a pitbull, it's a pitbull," chief executive Dr Graeme Smith said.

A third of the dogs it catches fit the dangerous description and most are destroyed.

"The owners are getting around the laws by failing to register them or not registering them and calling them a crossbreed or some other breed," Dr Smith said.

In 2009, a pitbull attack in Reservoir left a man hospitalised and his small dog dead.

RSPCA Victoria president Hugh Wirth said at the time that pitbulls were "time bombs waiting for the right circumstances" and that "they're not suitable pets for anybody".

It is a view that is at odds with his own organisation.

"RSPCA policy is quite clear on the fact that it really is about deed and breed specifically," shelter manager Allie Jalbert said.

But Mr Walsh is standing by Mr Wirth's comments.

"The president of the RSPCA is on the public record as well in believing that this type of dog has no right to exist as well," he said.

In a further step, the Government plans to change the Crimes Act allowing owners to be held criminally responsible for their dog's behaviour.

Topics: dog, animal-attacks, human-interest, animals, melbourne-3000, australia, vic

[sumosmum]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-25/rspca-rejects-pitbull-crossbreed-sale-claim/2856002

A row has broken out between two of Victoria's animal welfare organisations in the wake of last week's fatal dog attack in St Albans.

The Melbourne Lost Dogs Home has accused the RSPCA of selling pitbull terriers back into the community under the guise of staffordshire crossbreeds.

RSPCA Victoria rejects the allegation, maintaining that dogs should be judged on their deeds, not their breeds, and that it is operating within the law.

It has been a week since four-year-old Ayen Chol was mauled to death by a pitbull crossbreed that was not registered.

The dog has been destroyed and state politicians are preparing to table new laws to regulate dangerous dogs.

"There has been contention about crossbreeds and we are going to have a visual code that we will bring in next week as well that will resolve this issue," said Agriculture Minister Peter Walsh.

The RSPCA agrees that identifying crossbreeds is contentious.

"It's very difficult to assess an animal by its breed type, by its appearance," shelter manager Allie Jalbert said.

"There's specifications that the Victorian Government has put forward and they're the specifications that we use."

At the Lost Dogs Home, appearance is enough to determine breed.

"My view is that if it looks like a pitbull, it's a pitbull," chief executive Dr Graeme Smith said.

A third of the dogs it catches fit the dangerous description and most are destroyed.

"The owners are getting around the laws by failing to register them or not registering them and calling them a crossbreed or some other breed," Dr Smith said.

In 2009, a pitbull attack in Reservoir left a man hospitalised and his small dog dead.

RSPCA Victoria president Hugh Wirth said at the time that pitbulls were "time bombs waiting for the right circumstances" and that "they're not suitable pets for anybody".

It is a view that is at odds with his own organisation.

"RSPCA policy is quite clear on the fact that it really is about deed and breed specifically," shelter manager Allie Jalbert said.

But Mr Walsh is standing by Mr Wirth's comments.

"The president of the RSPCA is on the public record as well in believing that this type of dog has no right to exist as well," he said.

In a further step, the Government plans to change the Crimes Act allowing owners to be held criminally responsible for their dog's behaviour.

Topics: dog, animal-attacks, human-interest, animals, melbourne-3000, australia, vic

A visual code for crossbreeds, and the comment from that genius, "if it looks like a pitbull, it's a pitbull". Will we ever learn? All this is going to do is force people to hide their dogs. What a mess.

I do agree with tougher penalties for irresponsible owners though.

[raz]

It sure is a mess, isnt it. I thought the woman representing rspca was pretty good, though.

[Linda K]

and so the LDH just casually drops into the discussion just how many dogs they now kill because GS thinks it looks like a APBT so bang you're dead. Geez I wish that millionaire had paid more attention to stuff like that and actually gone inside and seen how they really operated. And with a push now being made to take this stuff nationally and not just Vic law, it is really getting worrying.

[Quickasyoucan]

What I don't get is why Australian legislators are pushing for a model that doesn't work. It is my understanding (and someone can correct me if I am wrong) that there are moves in the UK to repeal the Dangerous Dogs Act on the basis that it is flawed legislation.

Calgary is a great example of what actually does work. There are enough people in Australia who actually know about these things for example statement of Kersti Seksel on behalf of AVA, RSPCA current position plus a lot of research.

Why is this the only part of the law where a living being can be guilty by reason of what it is and not what it does?

There are enough examples of it not working, why is Australia so behind the eight ball. Political expediency I suppose

ETA spelling

Edited August 25, 2011 by Quickasyoucan

[poodlefan]

From a political perspective, prohibitions are cheap, quick and give the impression of decisive action.

Politicians love them.

As for working.. I dont' think in the entire history of man, there's a successful model of a prohibition working.

[Cosmolo]

A visual code.. Oh dear

[LizT]

Now, it is funny and we call this dog clever, well trained and cute. Replace this dog with a rottie, dobe, GSD or doG forbid a pittbull and its no longer funny, its serious stuff, that most would consider very dangerous.

I didnt say he was funny or cute. I said it was great team work!

However one must admit there is an air of "comic relief" in the way the routine is presented.

No one would seriously 'use' a dog of this size to do this work, it's clearly limited with it's feet off the ground, ;) but it does illustrate wonderfully the trainability of various breeds.

There is no comedy there

The laughter on the soundtrack would indicate otherwise.

[raz]

The laughter on the soundtrack would indicate otherwise.

ahh rightyo I didnt have the sound on. Thanks Liz.

[sandgrubber]

From a political perspective, prohibitions are cheap, quick and give the impression of decisive action.

Politicians love them.

As for working.. I dont' think in the entire history of man, there's a successful model of a prohibition working.

Come on, think harder. The prohibition of bull and bear baiting worked pretty well, as did the UK ban on cart dogs. Are you to young to remember when hairspray contained CFC's?

Breed bans hard due to problems of identification and enforcement. Staffies are extremely common in Australia and SBT crosses are everywhere. Some of them look vaguely like APBTs, especially to someone who has never seen an APBT . So there's a huge grey area, and a large population of people who stand to get VERY p'd off by bans that seriously begin knocking off X-breeds.

[GeckoTree]

Australia is a massive country, It's all not citycentric. Does anyone really think APBT's or X's there off will not be here one day?

If so I and many many others will be rolling eye emoticons for ever more especially at the politicisation. Dig a hole deeper than they are already in with BSL and it's cost blow outs over just and fair dog controls.

Just makes me lol every time at these people.