Child Killed By Dog

[Matthew_B]

Good post Melza,

I'd hazard a guess that MatthewB wouldn't be able to identify an APBT, or that the story has been somewhat fabricated to justify his view, but i'll take it at face value.

I'd also bet that he didn't plan on having his own argument turned against him.

MatthewB, i do hope now you have managed to learn a little? I was attacked by a collie whislt playing football, it ran onto the park and latched onto my leg good and proper, (i was 10) I do not however want all collies or farm dogs for that matter removed from society.

Different story altogether. I don't want Collies banned either because they are not a dangerous breed. Please try to keep it sensible! I didn't say I want a ban on all dogs, just dangerous ones like the pitbull.

[Aidan3]

I've been attacked by people before. People are a menace and should be banned.

Are you under the age of 6?

Are you trying to argue that only a pitbull would attack a child under the age of 6, and not a person or another breed of dog? Or that even a Beagle or JRT wouldn't be able to seriously injure a child that young?

I can see why your parents let their 5 year old child play cricket in a public area without supervision, you must have been one tough little dude to break a cricket bat over a dog's head, then threaten the owner with it and drive off.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Aidan2

[experiencedfun]

I didnt read the bit where Matthew says he was 5

[Aidan3]

I didnt read the bit where Matthew says he was 5

If he wasn't trying to claim that he was under 6 then he just used the worst burn ever

[Matthew_B]

I've been attacked by people before. People are a menace and should be banned.

Are you under the age of 6?

Are you trying to argue that only a pitbull would attack a child under the age of 6, and not a person or another breed of dog? Or that even a Beagle or JRT wouldn't be able to seriously injure a child that young?

I can see why your parents let their 5 year old child play cricket in a public area without supervision, you must have been one tough little dude to break a cricket bat over a dog's head, then threaten the owner with it and drive off.

I was being sarcastic, in response to the childishness of your comment regarding banning people because you've been attacked by a person or persons. Please come back when you are an adult.

[Linda K]

I think Matthew B meant that the person making the comment that because they have been attacked by people that all people should be banned was making a juvenile comment (not that I want to defend any of the rest of what he was saying, as he clearly did not get the point being made about it did not matter how far away the cricket nets were, nor how long they had been there before the dog spotted them, the point being made of if the dog considered that as its territory and had only just noticed them there (perhaps as the owner had only just noticed them and had maybe let the dog out knowing what would happen) then it would then have reacted and defended its territory, I also think the point could have been valid about them having bats - if the dog had been attacked with bats before, then it was reacting to that. Would not have liked to be attacked, but sounds like this was a bad owner case, not a bad dog, more a dog that never stood a chance with a tool for an owner

[Aidan3]

I've been attacked by people before. People are a menace and should be banned.

Are you under the age of 6?

Are you trying to argue that only a pitbull would attack a child under the age of 6, and not a person or another breed of dog? Or that even a Beagle or JRT wouldn't be able to seriously injure a child that young?

I can see why your parents let their 5 year old child play cricket in a public area without supervision, you must have been one tough little dude to break a cricket bat over a dog's head, then threaten the owner with it and drive off.

I was being sarcastic, in response to the childishness of your comment regarding banning people because you've been attacked by a person or persons. Please come back when you are an adult.

Ouch!

OK then buddy, I'll come back when I'm old enough not to rely on ad-hominem attacks and logical fallacies.

[Kavik]

Let's also clarify.... They are not an already banned breed, they are a restricted breed.

I'm still undecided as to my position on this. No easy solution, and to hear Karl Stefanovic repeatedly mention cattle dogs this morning made me unsettled.

Also, the above argument somewhere that BSL popularized the breed is not the whole argument, what made them popular was/ is the American tough guy attitude some Aussies aspire to.

They are a restricted breed . . . and it is prohibited to breed them or import them into the country.

There is currently no restriction on breeding crosses though and no management restrictions? Not saying there should be

Actually, breeding crosses of restricted breeds is also prohibited

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/caa1998174/s57c.html

[Aidan3]

I think Matthew B meant that the person making the comment that because they have been attacked by people that all people should be banned was making a juvenile comment

It was a deliberate non-sequitur, to highlight his non-sequitur. "I got attacked by a pitbull, therefore pitbulls should be banned" vs "I got attacked by a person, therefore persons should be banned". Neither logically follows.

[Quickasyoucan]

I'd hazard a guess many of us have had experiences with breeds that have coloured our views of them somewhat.

I was bitten badly and with intent by a silky terrier. Now Matthew B would probably laugh and say no comparison at that but it came within millimetres of permanently paralysing a finger and given that I use my hands for work I would have been pretty stuffed financially for the rest of my life.

I am not calling for a ban on silkies nor do I think all small dogs are bad. I think we need to look beyond one experience and not generalise on the basis of that one experience.

ETA for the record I'm not that keen on people either ;)

Edited August 22, 2011 by Quickasyoucan

[melzawelza]

Good post Melza,

I'd hazard a guess that MatthewB wouldn't be able to identify an APBT, or that the story has been somewhat fabricated to justify his view, but i'll take it at face value.

I'd also bet that he didn't plan on having his own argument turned against him.

MatthewB, i do hope now you have managed to learn a little? I was attacked by a collie whislt playing football, it ran onto the park and latched onto my leg good and proper, (i was 10) I do not however want all collies or farm dogs for that matter removed from society.

I didn't have to identify the dog, even though I knew what breed it was. The reason I didn't have to identify it - the dog was registered with the council and the owner registered it in plain black and white that it was a pitbull...

Ok so that is one question answered. Why have you ignored the rest of my post? They were all very valid points. You state that the dog couldn't possibly have thought it to be it's territory. Actually, if it was let out every day to wander the entire oval then YES it could certainly have believed the entire oval was it's territory. Again, owner irresponsibility.

[Matthew_B]

I think Matthew B meant that the person making the comment that because they have been attacked by people that all people should be banned was making a juvenile comment (not that I want to defend any of the rest of what he was saying, as he clearly did not get the point being made about it did not matter how far away the cricket nets were, nor how long they had been there before the dog spotted them, the point being made of if the dog considered that as its territory and had only just noticed them there (perhaps as the owner had only just noticed them and had maybe let the dog out knowing what would happen) then it would then have reacted and defended its territory, I also think the point could have been valid about them having bats - if the dog had been attacked with bats before, then it was reacting to that. Would not have liked to be attacked, but sounds like this was a bad owner case, not a bad dog, more a dog that never stood a chance with a tool for an owner

Wow, I'm speechless. That's the most apologetic post I've read yet in defence of this breed. It's never the dog, it's always the owner or the victim's fault or something else. Unbelievable!!!

[Aidan3]

It's never the dog, it's always the owner or the victim's fault or something else. Unbelievable!!!

No Matthew, the point is that pitbulls have been banned and eradicated in various jurisdictions over the last 20 years or more. As best as we can determine, not a single bite has been prevented using this strategy. What do you say to that?

[Matthew_B]

It's never the dog, it's always the owner or the victim's fault or something else. Unbelievable!!!

No Matthew, the point is that pitbulls have been banned and eradicated in various jurisdictions over the last 20 years or more. As best as we can determine, not a single bite has been prevented using this strategy. What do you say to that?

The breed needs to be eradicated until it ceases to exist. Simple. It can't attack/kill you if it's extinct.

[Aidan3]

It's never the dog, it's always the owner or the victim's fault or something else. Unbelievable!!!

No Matthew, the point is that pitbulls have been banned and eradicated in various jurisdictions over the last 20 years or more. As best as we can determine, not a single bite has been prevented using this strategy. What do you say to that?

The breed needs to be eradicated until it ceases to exist. Simple. It can't attack/kill you if it's extinct.

OK, I see your point, but how do you explain the fact that bites and fatalities occur at exactly the same rate if you remove all pitbulls from the population?

[WreckitWhippet]

It's never the dog, it's always the owner or the victim's fault or something else. Unbelievable!!!

No Matthew, the point is that pitbulls have been banned and eradicated in various jurisdictions over the last 20 years or more. As best as we can determine, not a single bite has been prevented using this strategy. What do you say to that?

The breed needs to be eradicated until it ceases to exist. Simple. It can't attack/kill you if it's extinct.

Then what do we do with every other breed or cross that attacks someone ? Continue to blame the breed or cross untill there are none left ?

Edited August 22, 2011 by ReadySetGo

[Jumabaar]

Mathew B I am sorry you got attacked by that dog. I do agree that it is the owner's fault however. If I owned that EXACT same animal, I can assure you that you would not have had the same issue. That is because I make sure my dogs are always under control. Be that when I am not at home- they are left behind secure 8ft fences, and any who I think may be thinking about an escape attempt are locked in the house- when I am entering or exiting my home, as it is double gated, or when I am out and about because they are either on lead or engaged in an activity such as flyball or agility when I have my full attention on them and know they have a reliable recall (dogs without a reliable recall are put on a long line).

Thus the breed and temperament of my dogs will never impact on someone negatively because I believe it is my responsibility to keep my dog safe from people who do not know how to behave around dogs, and also because every time I go out I am trying to be a positive representative of dog owners. The person who owned the dog that attacked you did not deserve to own any dog because they were not taking responsibility for the sentient being they decided to own.

The thing about being an OWNER means that you are responsible for whatever you OWN. The dog didn't chose its OWNER, it got chosen so please don't blame an animal that had no choice about its living conditions, its training or its parents, blame the owner who did not understand or take seriously the rights and responsibilities of dog OWNERSHIP.

[Andisa]

It's never the dog, it's always the owner or the victim's fault or something else. Unbelievable!!!

No Matthew, the point is that pitbulls have been banned and eradicated in various jurisdictions over the last 20 years or more. As best as we can determine, not a single bite has been prevented using this strategy. What do you say to that?

The breed needs to be eradicated until it ceases to exist. Simple. It can't attack/kill you if it's extinct.

Then what do we do with every other breed or cross that attacks someone ? Continue to blame the breed or cross untill there are none left ?

Yep - that is the logic that he comes across with.....so what is he doing on a dog forum?

[Malamum]

Know why I don't like the pitbull breed? I was attacked by one. While at a cricket field in the nets doing some batting practice with a mate I was cornered by one of these animals. I tried to walk slowly around it without making any sudden moves, but it blocked my exit from the nets. My mate was lucky enough to climb a fence when he saw the dog coming. I couldn't get out in time. It was barking, snarling, showing its teeth and pinned its ears back - obvious signs of aggression. When it finally made its charge at me, I belted it so hard with my cricket bat that the handle cracked. Luckily for me, the dog limped off very slowly in the opposite direction, bleeding, having decided it was a bad idea to try to attack me after all. The owner was across the street on his verandah watching and laughing until I defended myself. He had the audacity, the arrogance to come and berate me for "assaulting" his dog, saying he was going to "mess me up real good". My mate and I said that if he didn't back off, our first phone call would be to the Police after he met the same side of both our cricket bats as his dog did. He reluctantly backed off, swearing all the way, and once we were safely in the car, we noted the guy's address and reported it to the Police and the local Council. He ended up copping a fairly expensive fine for not having his dangerous dog properly contained in his yard. He also copped a hefty bill from the vet. My mate and I did nothing to provoke that dog - we were just doing cricket practice. These dogs are a menace and have no place in society.

Matthew, can you not see the correlation between the type of person the owner was and the aggressive behaviour the dog displayed? The parts in bold are not behaviours that normal responsible members of society display.

Lots of people have claimed that whenever there is a report of a dog attack that they are not surprised by the breed of dog. It’s not actually the breed of dog that stands out to me it’s the demographic of the owner. They tend to live in a low socio-economic area, are very poorly spoken and look as rough as anything.

Say we do get rid of Pitbulls and they become extinct as you have said you’d like. These people are still going to want dogs and whatever breed they get, I can’t see them magically owning a dog that is a model canine citizen just because it’s a different breed.

[k9angel]

Know why I don't like the pitbull breed? I was attacked by one. While at a cricket field in the nets doing some batting practice with a mate I was cornered by one of these animals. I tried to walk slowly around it without making any sudden moves, but it blocked my exit from the nets. My mate was lucky enough to climb a fence when he saw the dog coming. I couldn't get out in time. It was barking, snarling, showing its teeth and pinned its ears back - obvious signs of aggression. When it finally made its charge at me, I belted it so hard with my cricket bat that the handle cracked. Luckily for me, the dog limped off very slowly in the opposite direction, bleeding, having decided it was a bad idea to try to attack me after all. The owner was across the street on his verandah watching and laughing until I defended myself. He had the audacity, the arrogance to come and berate me for "assaulting" his dog, saying he was going to "mess me up real good". My mate and I said that if he didn't back off, our first phone call would be to the Police after he met the same side of both our cricket bats as his dog did. He reluctantly backed off, swearing all the way, and once we were safely in the car, we noted the guy's address and reported it to the Police and the local Council. He ended up copping a fairly expensive fine for not having his dangerous dog properly contained in his yard. He also copped a hefty bill from the vet. My mate and I did nothing to provoke that dog - we were just doing cricket practice. These dogs are a menace and have no place in society.

I was going to ask earlier on whether you'd had a bad experience with one as you really seem to have a grudge against them big time.

I guess the above post answers that question.

The owner of the dog was obviously a bogan - to be laughing at you as his dog bailed you up like that.

This is what we are trying to say. In most cases it is the hands they end up in.

The bogans, the wanna-be macho's.

It's really sad that you had to experience that and I imagine it would of been very scary. But think, if that twit of an owner had of kept that dog at home, like a responsible owner would - and not let him out to roam to the park - you wouldn't of been bailed up to begin with. And if the dog had of been socialised properly, chances are he would of came running at you with a wagging tail - not snarling teeth.

Also whose to say the dogs owner hadn't abused it before? let's face it - he sounds like an absolute bogan who obviously didn't care for the wellbeing and safety of a fellow human being, laughing like that - and he couldn't of cared too much about his dog, letting him out to roam. Maybe the dog felt threatened in some way, seeing you there with a cricket bat???

I was in the nets of the cricket field across the road from the "bogans" house, with the nets being atleast 150m from even the road. I fail to see how the dog could have felt threatened nearly 200m from its "territory" - AFTER wandering over to us. We'd been there for nearly 2 hours before the dog came out of its yard.

Oh ok. I didn't know that when I read your first post.

And I didn't mean felt threatened in regards to it's territory, I meant it might of felt threatened for it's life, seeing you with a bat.

I understand you've had a bad experience but I don't feel you are being fair by branding them all the same and putting them all into the same boat.

IF that guy had of had that dog properly contained that day, whether in the backyard, the house or a leash - do you think you'd be here now telling us about this? No, because it wouldn't of happened.

Is your hate for this breed based soley on that one incident? I take it, it is.

Several months ago, I was driving home from the shops when I eyed a staffy x girl sitting on the nature strip.

It was a hot day, a stinker and she looked exhausted as she panted away under the tree.

Me being the do-gooder I am, stopped the car and went to see if she was ok. I wasn't sure whether she'd been hit by a car, was lost or was waiting for her master at the shops opposite.

I went into all the shops and asked. Nope. No one had seen her before so I asked one shopkeeper for a bowl of water. They filled an empty icecream container and I went to take it to her.

As I crossed the street, she watched me carefully. I kind of felt uneasy then, (just the stare she was giving and the still tail) and should of backed away but continued. I was in the middle of the street waiting for a car to pass when I noted her body language change. Her ears went back, her tail tucked under her body as she jumped to her feet. I thought 'oh oh', I am going to get bitten here.

I tried to talk to her gently but it was clear she was not friendly. She lifted her lips and charged at me. I almost fell over backwards, the water went all over me and what was left sprayed all over her deterring her and making her run off. I also came close to getting hit by a car.

I got into my car and tried to follow her, but she was too fast and dissapeared. I assumed, and hoped - she had gone home.

I came home and called the council but there wasn't much they could do as she was no where to be found. It was scary stuff I know that much.

But, having said that I would do it all over again tommorow if I saw a staffy x sitting alone by the side of the road, because I know they are NOT all the same.