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My partner made the comment that he couldn't understand why anyone would want 'that kind of dog' and I have to agree with him. We often say on here that we don't understand why people go out and buy designer dogs because there are so many lovely pure breeds to choose from. Well I don't understand why people insist on fighting to keep the pit bull type breeds when there are so many other lovely breeds to choose from.

No one wants to see their lovely docile pet pitbull type dog put down because of some hastily prepared legislation, but banning the breeding (at least) of these dogs and therefore allowing the breed to eventually disappear doesn't seem unreasonable.

IMO there arn't a lot of breeds that compare to a well bred American Pit Bull Terrier. If the breeding/importation ban is ever lifted I'd love to have a really nicely bred one if I thought I could deal with the DA. They arn't the same as similar breeds and they definetly arn't for everyone.

I suggest watching this video, it gives me shivers and makes me want to cry everytime.

If someone told me they were going to ban all Border Collie/Border Collie type dogs I don't know what I'd do. This is my breed, I am passionate about them and they work for me, you don't ever have to have a pitbull but they are an old breed with a rich history and up untill recently they were adored by the public. I can't imagine what we would loose with them.

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From the DPI website here: http://new.dpi.vic.gov.au/pets/about-pets/legislation-and-regulation/restricted-breed-dogs

The current laws for owners of Restricted breed dogs

If you own a dog that fits the identification "Standard" (which is currently being developed) for an American Pit Bull Terrier (or Pit Bull Terrier), Perro de Presa Canario (or Presa Canario), Dogo Argentino, Japanese Tosa, or Fila Brasileiro, you will need to comply with Victorian legislation relating to the control of Restricted Breed Dogs.

From 1 September 2010 you will have two years to declare and register your Restricted Breed Dog with your local Council, if you haven’t already done so (as long as you can prove that it was kept in Victoria prior to 1 September 2010).

After this two year period, Restricted Breed Dogs that are not already registered with the local Council can not be kept in Victoria, and will be euthanased.

Contact your local Council for more information regarding ownership of Restricted Breed Dogs. Information on the identification "Standard" for Restricted Breed Dogs can be obtained by calling the DPI Customer Service Centre on 136 186.

This standard should be interesting seeing that the Qld laws collapsed due to the mistaken beleif that you could identify a PB by its physical appearance alone.

S

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I am astonished that so many of you continue to defend such a vicious, dangerous breed of dog. This is a breed that has been bred for one purpose only - to fight. There is no need for a fighting dog in modern society. Yes, other dogs can snap, but the statistics are stark. Even though pitbull breeds are vastly outnumbered in comparison to other dog breeds in our homes (more people have GR's or Lab's than a pitbull breed as family pet), they are by far the most prolific breed involved in deaths and maimings. It's got absolutely nothing at all to do with how the dog is raised or how it is treated. It's the dogs' primitive instinct to fight. Sure, some may be placid and never snap. But in my opinion, it's a risk that is not worth taking. That little girl died a terrifying, truly horrific and painful death right in front of her mother because someone wanted to have a fighting dog as their pet. There can be no excuses for the owner. This tragedy was completely preventable - if the owner of that dog had a non-fighting breed of dog, the chances are very slim to nil that this attack would have occurred. As far as I am concerned, in the eyes of the law a person who owns a fighting dog that kills or maims should be treated in the same category as owning a gun. It's time for tough penalties for owners of these dogs. A strong deterrent is required to stop people from breeding or buying these horrible dogs. The sooner they are extinct, the better off we'll all be.

FFS Mathew stop your harping and non sense dribble! The dog was a crossbreed, you can not compare and keep blaming the APBT. I've said It before dogs are not born killers they are made by humans, you're targeting the wrong end. This Is not a breed related problem, but a human one

How many times does it have to be said they have never been bred for human aggression! NEVER

Cross two breeds of unknown origin/history and you get what??? Nothing but a lucky dip

I am not blaming the APBT - I am blaming ALL breeds of pitbull. There's just no need, no use, no justification for having one of these fighting dogs. They are trouble just waiting to happen. BIG trouble.

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I am astonished that so many of you continue to defend such a vicious, dangerous breed of dog. This is a breed that has been bred for one purpose only - to fight. There is no need for a fighting dog in modern society. Yes, other dogs can snap, but the statistics are stark. Even though pitbull breeds are vastly outnumbered in comparison to other dog breeds in our homes (more people have GR's or Lab's than a pitbull breed as family pet), they are by far the most prolific breed involved in deaths and maimings. It's got absolutely nothing at all to do with how the dog is raised or how it is treated. It's the dogs' primitive instinct to fight. Sure, some may be placid and never snap. But in my opinion, it's a risk that is not worth taking. That little girl died a terrifying, truly horrific and painful death right in front of her mother because someone wanted to have a fighting dog as their pet. There can be no excuses for the owner. This tragedy was completely preventable - if the owner of that dog had a non-fighting breed of dog, the chances are very slim to nil that this attack would have occurred. As far as I am concerned, in the eyes of the law a person who owns a fighting dog that kills or maims should be treated in the same category as owning a gun. It's time for tough penalties for owners of these dogs. A strong deterrent is required to stop people from breeding or buying these horrible dogs. The sooner they are extinct, the better off we'll all be.

Where do you get your info Matthew?Obviously the nightly news and the internet.Where do you come to the conclusion that pitbulls are involved in more deaths than any other breed?Like I said before no Purebred American Pitbull Terrier has been involved in a fatality in this country to date so dont worry what happens in the US.

Your ignorance is astounding and the fact that you still think how a dog is raised has nothing to do with it shows you do not understand dogs or the basics of ownership and therefore I dont think you should own a dog at all.You keep saying fighting dog,the dog was a crossbreed it was not an American pitbull Terrier you and the media conveniently keep overlooking that fact.

I agree with the dogs being restricted.I agree with tougher penalties for owners whose dogs attack but I have had that opinion for a long time and have written submissions to the DLG stating such.The problem is they took the easiest and least effective and cheapest way out.Like I have said before a million times they will not eradicate pitbulls from the Australian landscape.We are a decade on from BSL and what has changed?If you cant stop it then control it and remove the breed specific part and make owners responsible.For a start councils should inspect premises where dogs are to be kept and if they will be properly contained if not no licence issued and you have 28 days to provide containment and comply or you forfeit dogs or move from that area.

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I am astonished that so many of you continue to defend such a vicious, dangerous breed of dog. This is a breed that has been bred for one purpose only - to fight. There is no need for a fighting dog in modern society. Yes, other dogs can snap, but the statistics are stark. Even though pitbull breeds are vastly outnumbered in comparison to other dog breeds in our homes (more people have GR's or Lab's than a pitbull breed as family pet), they are by far the most prolific breed involved in deaths and maimings. It's got absolutely nothing at all to do with how the dog is raised or how it is treated. It's the dogs' primitive instinct to fight. Sure, some may be placid and never snap. But in my opinion, it's a risk that is not worth taking. That little girl died a terrifying, truly horrific and painful death right in front of her mother because someone wanted to have a fighting dog as their pet. There can be no excuses for the owner. This tragedy was completely preventable - if the owner of that dog had a non-fighting breed of dog, the chances are very slim to nil that this attack would have occurred. As far as I am concerned, in the eyes of the law a person who owns a fighting dog that kills or maims should be treated in the same category as owning a gun. It's time for tough penalties for owners of these dogs. A strong deterrent is required to stop people from breeding or buying these horrible dogs. The sooner they are extinct, the better off we'll all be.

FFS Mathew stop your harping and non sense dribble! The dog was a crossbreed, you can not compare and keep blaming the APBT. I've said It before dogs are not born killers they are made by humans, you're targeting the wrong end. This Is not a breed related problem, but a human one

How many times does it have to be said they have never been bred for human aggression! NEVER

Cross two breeds of unknown origin/history and you get what??? Nothing but a lucky dip

I am not blaming the APBT - I am blaming ALL breeds of pitbull. There's just no need, no use, no justification for having one of these fighting dogs. They are trouble just waiting to happen. BIG trouble.

What do you mean?It is either an American Pitbull Terrier or it is not.It is pretty black and white.There are no other breeds of pitbull as you put it?A crossbreed is just that a crossbreed.Educate yourself.

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PitBulls have a very bad reputation in society. Just imagine trying to sell your house and telling the prospective buyers that your next door neighbour has one or two Pitbulls. They are one of the most feared type of dog in modern society. Now a pitbull type has slaughtered a small child, someone's baby. What good is a having a dog that has to be confined for fear of it attacking an animal or human ? My opinion is this type of dog has no place in society. Do the dogs suffer because they have bad owners that don't know what to do ? Yes. Do we need these dogs ? No.

TD, the fact the society fears something doesn't mean that fear has any basis in fact. I wish folk could see that their belief is being manipulated by politicians and the media for their own agendas and for the most part with no real reason for that fear.

I get that people are worried about large powerful dogs and their potential to kill. I share that concern.

I wish folk would read past the headlines and hysteria and actually educate themselves about what makes a killer dog. The research is out there, the books are out there and the fact that most people with real knowledge of dogs and dog aggression don't support BSL should be telling you that something's smelly about the BSL solution.

Which part of "banning dogs breeds doesn't stop dog attacks" are people failing to grasp??? :banghead:

Edited by poodlefan
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I suggest watching this video, it gives me shivers and makes me want to cry everytime.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and say that video's bloody terrible.

To anyone who knows and loves dogs, that video will give you shivers and you'll be impressed and amazed.

To Joe Bloggs Public who don't understand dogs, that's in excess of three minutes of pitbulls grabbing and shaking things savagely, coupled with some pretty astounding jumps that make you think the dog could literally get up and over ANYTHING in order to grab and shake you - and oo, look there, there's the dog grabbing and shaking a bloke who's hitting him with a STICK, and all to the backdrop of a blaring heavy metal tune the main distinguishable lyric of which is 'Don't turn your back on me'.

Yeah, um, don't think I'll be sharing that one in my keyboard warrior efforts to calm the hysteria and promote the breed...

o_O

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People do grasp it PF

but they are seeing statistics, and there has been incidents in Australia in the last couple of years, where these powerful sort of dogs, have severely injured and now killed someone

that is what they are grasping

yes, there can be all sorts of reasons for why they are doing it, but the simple fact is, these dogs, in the wrong hands, can cause far more damage then other breeds

Edited by Angelina
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I am astonished that so many of you continue to defend such a vicious, dangerous breed of dog. This is a breed that has been bred for one purpose only - to fight. There is no need for a fighting dog in modern society. Yes, other dogs can snap, but the statistics are stark. Even though pitbull breeds are vastly outnumbered in comparison to other dog breeds in our homes (more people have GR's or Lab's than a pitbull breed as family pet), they are by far the most prolific breed involved in deaths and maimings. It's got absolutely nothing at all to do with how the dog is raised or how it is treated. It's the dogs' primitive instinct to fight. Sure, some may be placid and never snap. But in my opinion, it's a risk that is not worth taking. That little girl died a terrifying, truly horrific and painful death right in front of her mother because someone wanted to have a fighting dog as their pet. There can be no excuses for the owner. This tragedy was completely preventable - if the owner of that dog had a non-fighting breed of dog, the chances are very slim to nil that this attack would have occurred. As far as I am concerned, in the eyes of the law a person who owns a fighting dog that kills or maims should be treated in the same category as owning a gun. It's time for tough penalties for owners of these dogs. A strong deterrent is required to stop people from breeding or buying these horrible dogs. The sooner they are extinct, the better off we'll all be.

Where do you get your info Matthew?Obviously the nightly news and the internet.Where do you come to the conclusion that pitbulls are involved in more deaths than any other breed?Like I said before no Purebred American Pitbull Terrier has been involved in a fatality in this country to date so dont worry what happens in the US.

Your ignorance is astounding and the fact that you still think how a dog is raised has nothing to do with it shows you do not understand dogs or the basics of ownership and therefore I dont think you should own a dog at all.You keep saying fighting dog,the dog was a crossbreed it was not an American pitbull Terrier you and the media conveniently keep overlooking that fact.

I agree with the dogs being restricted.I agree with tougher penalties for owners whose dogs attack but I have had that opinion for a long time and have written submissions to the DLG stating such.The problem is they took the easiest and least effective and cheapest way out.Like I have said before a million times they will not eradicate pitbulls from the Australian landscape.We are a decade on from BSL and what has changed?If you cant stop it then control it and remove the breed specific part and make owners responsible.For a start councils should inspect premises where dogs are to be kept and if they will be properly contained if not no licence issued and you have 28 days to provide containment and comply or you forfeit dogs or move from that area.

I'll refer you to a previous post...

Pitbull (all types) attacks: 1,392

Pitbull (all types) deaths: 137

Pitbull (all types) maimings: 734

http://www.scribd.com/doc/11249213/Dog-Attack-Deaths-Maimings-US-Canada-September-1982-to-January-2008

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That is a good point SpotTheDog however I'd hope most people on here would have a basic understanding of dogs and see this for what it really is, strong, agile, versatile and trainable.

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That is a good point SpotTheDog however I'd hope most people on here would have a basic understanding of dogs and see this for what it really is, strong, agile, versatile and trainable.

yeah but it is a public forum and at least one media outlet (The Punch, part of news ltd) has linked to dogzonline saying that people are defending child killing dogs.

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PitBulls have a very bad reputation in society. Just imagine trying to sell your house and telling the prospective buyers that your next door neighbour has one or two Pitbulls. They are one of the most feared type of dog in modern society. Now a pitbull type has slaughtered a small child, someone's baby. What good is a having a dog that has to be confined for fear of it attacking an animal or human ? My opinion is this type of dog has no place in society. Do the dogs suffer because they have bad owners that don't know what to do ? Yes. Do we need these dogs ? No.

TD, the fact the society fears something doesn't mean that fear has any basis in fact. I wish folk could see that their belief is being manipulated by politicians and the media for their own agendas and for the most part with no real reason for that fear.

I get that people are worried about large powerful dogs and their potential to kill. I share that concern.

I wish folk would read past the headlines and hysteria and actually educate themselves about what makes a killer dog. The research is out there, the books are out there and the fact that most people with real knowledge of dogs and dog aggression don't support BSL should be telling you that something's smelly about the BSL solution.

Which part of "banning dogs breeds doesn't stop dog attacks" are people failing to grasp??? :banghead:

People like Mathew and others who dont have a fundamental understanding of dogs dont realise how easy it is to make a maneater.They can remove all pitbulls tomorrow and using dogs that are already here and legal you can breed another type of dog in a very short space of time.One that is more human aggressive ,larger and more dangerous.It is not that hard and not that hard to turn them nasty.Armed with that knowledge which end of the leash should you target?

If a meth head can make a batch of meth under his kitchen sink with limited knowledge and basic ingredients it proves you dont need to be a chemist.Dog breeding is the same its not rocket science.

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That is a good point SpotTheDog however I'd hope most people on here would have a basic understanding of dogs and see this for what it really is, strong, agile, versatile and trainable.

yeah but it is a public forum and at least one media outlet (The Punch, part of news ltd) has linked to dogzonline saying that people are defending child killing dogs.

A wholly inaccurate assertion and just what I'd expect from that style of journalism. No one in their right minds could defend what this dog did. Some of us just happen to think that its owner should bear the bulk of the responsiblitity. The dog will pay with its life (and this must be done). The owner - lets see what he has to say about where he got the dog from, how he raised it and managed it.

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That is a good point SpotTheDog however I'd hope most people on here would have a basic understanding of dogs and see this for what it really is, strong, agile, versatile and trainable.

I wish someone would make a video acessible to everyone, showing pitbulls as the fantastic dogs they can be - using a pitbull with uncropped ears, who's a registered therapy dog, for instance, and leaving out the bit where the dog is a trained protection dog as well, so there's no grabbing, shaking, wooling, or biting of anything worse than a tennis ball. And perhaps a soundtrack from Hans Zimmer. Or Chopin.

:laugh:

Meh my dog is of dubious heritage and if arbitrary laws are introduced against bull breeds, I could lose him. He is of impeccable character - I've just been feeding the cats and watching him steal catfood and watching my cats eat dropped kibble bits literally alongside him and sometimes out from under his muzzle. He's a sweet natured thing.

If someone called to my house to impound my dog because he has pitbull terrier in him, I think I'd die on the spot. :(

/edited to add I actually don't know what my dog has in him. He's a real bitsa.

Edited by SpotTheDog
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I am astonished that so many of you continue to defend such a vicious, dangerous breed of dog. This is a breed that has been bred for one purpose only - to fight. There is no need for a fighting dog in modern society. Yes, other dogs can snap, but the statistics are stark. Even though pitbull breeds are vastly outnumbered in comparison to other dog breeds in our homes (more people have GR's or Lab's than a pitbull breed as family pet), they are by far the most prolific breed involved in deaths and maimings. It's got absolutely nothing at all to do with how the dog is raised or how it is treated. It's the dogs' primitive instinct to fight. Sure, some may be placid and never snap. But in my opinion, it's a risk that is not worth taking. That little girl died a terrifying, truly horrific and painful death right in front of her mother because someone wanted to have a fighting dog as their pet. There can be no excuses for the owner. This tragedy was completely preventable - if the owner of that dog had a non-fighting breed of dog, the chances are very slim to nil that this attack would have occurred. As far as I am concerned, in the eyes of the law a person who owns a fighting dog that kills or maims should be treated in the same category as owning a gun. It's time for tough penalties for owners of these dogs. A strong deterrent is required to stop people from breeding or buying these horrible dogs. The sooner they are extinct, the better off we'll all be.

Where do you get your info Matthew?Obviously the nightly news and the internet.Where do you come to the conclusion that pitbulls are involved in more deaths than any other breed?Like I said before no Purebred American Pitbull Terrier has been involved in a fatality in this country to date so dont worry what happens in the US.

Your ignorance is astounding and the fact that you still think how a dog is raised has nothing to do with it shows you do not understand dogs or the basics of ownership and therefore I dont think you should own a dog at all.You keep saying fighting dog,the dog was a crossbreed it was not an American pitbull Terrier you and the media conveniently keep overlooking that fact.

I agree with the dogs being restricted.I agree with tougher penalties for owners whose dogs attack but I have had that opinion for a long time and have written submissions to the DLG stating such.The problem is they took the easiest and least effective and cheapest way out.Like I have said before a million times they will not eradicate pitbulls from the Australian landscape.We are a decade on from BSL and what has changed?If you cant stop it then control it and remove the breed specific part and make owners responsible.For a start councils should inspect premises where dogs are to be kept and if they will be properly contained if not no licence issued and you have 28 days to provide containment and comply or you forfeit dogs or move from that area.

I'll refer you to a previous post...

Pitbull (all types) attacks: 1,392

Pitbull (all types) deaths: 137

Pitbull (all types) maimings: 734

http://www.scribd.com/doc/11249213/Dog-Attack-Deaths-Maimings-US-Canada-September-1982-to-January-2008

Maybe you need to read what is written.Those statistics are from the US and Canada over a 26 year period and have no bearing on this country.No Ameeican Pitbull Terrier has been responsible for a single fatality in this country to date in about a 30 year period over the same time period.Why do you think this is genius? What part of that dont you understand.

Edited by bulldogz4eva
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That is a good point SpotTheDog however I'd hope most people on here would have a basic understanding of dogs and see this for what it really is, strong, agile, versatile and trainable.

yeah but it is a public forum and at least one media outlet (The Punch, part of news ltd) has linked to dogzonline saying that people are defending child killing dogs.

A wholly inaccurate assertion and just what I'd expect from that style of journalism. No one in their right minds could defend what this dog did. Some of us just happen to think that its owner should bear the bulk of the responsiblitity. The dog will pay with its life (and this must be done). The owner - lets see what he has to say about where he got the dog from, how he raised it and managed it.

I agree. I was responding to B-Q's post that people looking at the link she posted were part of the normal DOL crew - given the publicity that we've gotten she can't make that assumption.

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PitBulls have a very bad reputation in society. Just imagine trying to sell your house and telling the prospective buyers that your next door neighbour has one or two Pitbulls. They are one of the most feared type of dog in modern society. Now a pitbull type has slaughtered a small child, someone's baby. What good is a having a dog that has to be confined for fear of it attacking an animal or human ? My opinion is this type of dog has no place in society. Do the dogs suffer because they have bad owners that don't know what to do ? Yes. Do we need these dogs ? No.

TD, the fact the society fears something doesn't mean that fear has any basis in fact. I wish folk could see that their belief is being manipulated by politicians and the media for their own agendas and for the most part with no real reason for that fear.

I get that people are worried about large powerful dogs and their potential to kill. I share that concern.

I wish folk would read past the headlines and hysteria and actually educate themselves about what makes a killer dog. The research is out there, the books are out there and the fact that most people with real knowledge of dogs and dog aggression don't support BSL should be telling you that something's smelly about the BSL solution.

Which part of "banning dogs breeds doesn't stop dog attacks" are people failing to grasp??? :banghead:

People like Mathew and others who dont have a fundamental understanding of dogs dont realise how easy it is to make a maneater.They can remove all pitbulls tomorrow and using dogs that are already here and legal you can breed another type of dog in a very short space of time.One that is more human aggressive ,larger and more dangerous.It is not that hard and not that hard to turn them nasty.Armed with that knowledge which end of the leash should you target?

If a meth head can make a batch of meth under his kitchen sink with limited knowledge and basic ingredients it proves you dont need to be a chemist.Dog breeding is the same its not rocket science.

Wow, sheer lunacy! :crazy: If we believed you, every Police Dog Squad member and security guard dog unit would be suffering numerous injuries caused by their dogs. The fact that they don't is because the breeds selected are those which can be trained to restrain their aggressiveness and to attack only when commanded. The pitbull that killed the little girl that is the subject of this topic could not be stopped no matter what.

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I agree. I was responding to B-Q's post that people looking at the link she posted were part of the normal DOL crew - given the publicity that we've gotten she can't make that assumption.

Do you have a linky, megan? No one on here has defended a dog that killed a little child. As far as I'm aware the consensus is this should all be brought back to responsible dog ownership.

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I am astonished that so many of you continue to defend such a vicious, dangerous breed of dog. This is a breed that has been bred for one purpose only - to fight. There is no need for a fighting dog in modern society. Yes, other dogs can snap, but the statistics are stark. Even though pitbull breeds are vastly outnumbered in comparison to other dog breeds in our homes (more people have GR's or Lab's than a pitbull breed as family pet), they are by far the most prolific breed involved in deaths and maimings. It's got absolutely nothing at all to do with how the dog is raised or how it is treated. It's the dogs' primitive instinct to fight. Sure, some may be placid and never snap. But in my opinion, it's a risk that is not worth taking. That little girl died a terrifying, truly horrific and painful death right in front of her mother because someone wanted to have a fighting dog as their pet. There can be no excuses for the owner. This tragedy was completely preventable - if the owner of that dog had a non-fighting breed of dog, the chances are very slim to nil that this attack would have occurred. As far as I am concerned, in the eyes of the law a person who owns a fighting dog that kills or maims should be treated in the same category as owning a gun. It's time for tough penalties for owners of these dogs. A strong deterrent is required to stop people from breeding or buying these horrible dogs. The sooner they are extinct, the better off we'll all be.

Where do you get your info Matthew?Obviously the nightly news and the internet.Where do you come to the conclusion that pitbulls are involved in more deaths than any other breed?Like I said before no Purebred American Pitbull Terrier has been involved in a fatality in this country to date so dont worry what happens in the US.

Your ignorance is astounding and the fact that you still think how a dog is raised has nothing to do with it shows you do not understand dogs or the basics of ownership and therefore I dont think you should own a dog at all.You keep saying fighting dog,the dog was a crossbreed it was not an American pitbull Terrier you and the media conveniently keep overlooking that fact.

I agree with the dogs being restricted.I agree with tougher penalties for owners whose dogs attack but I have had that opinion for a long time and have written submissions to the DLG stating such.The problem is they took the easiest and least effective and cheapest way out.Like I have said before a million times they will not eradicate pitbulls from the Australian landscape.We are a decade on from BSL and what has changed?If you cant stop it then control it and remove the breed specific part and make owners responsible.For a start councils should inspect premises where dogs are to be kept and if they will be properly contained if not no licence issued and you have 28 days to provide containment and comply or you forfeit dogs or move from that area.

I'll refer you to a previous post...

Pitbull (all types) attacks: 1,392

Pitbull (all types) deaths: 137

Pitbull (all types) maimings: 734

http://www.scribd.com/doc/11249213/Dog-Attack-Deaths-Maimings-US-Canada-September-1982-to-January-2008

Maybe you need to read what is written.Those statistics are from the US and Canada over a 26 year period and have no bearing on this country.No Ameeican Pitbull Terrier has been responsible for a single fatality in this country to date in about a 30 year period over the same time period.Why do you think this is genius? What part of that dont you understand.

Um, I never said it was an APBT. I said pitbulls as a breed. How many dog-related deaths over the past decade in Australia haven't involved a breed of pitbull? Very, very few. They are fighting dogs and have no use for anything other than to fight or to make some moron feel big and tough when he's walking the stupid thing.

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