Child Killed By Dog

[KOE]

RIP baby girl

Horendous for all concerned

[RottnBullies]

Lets not make this thread about who did the best job in the QLD case. This thread is about a child that is dead.

Discussing things here does not take away what this thread Is all about, surely you can see this

[KOE]

latest news report is

A Amstaff mastiff cross

[W Sibs]

RIP little girl. Fast recovery to the mum.

Such a tragic.

[LizT]

Such a tragic event, I have a 5month old baby now and it certainly brings it close to home how quickly something like this can happent in an instant....

My heart goes out to the family.....what that poor girl went through.

Yes a tragic event for a family that has seen far more than it's share of pain and anguish.

Let's also not forget their is a traumatised 5 year old in hosptial that probably will be scarred for life on so many levels.

Let's not make this about BSL. It should be about responsible pet ownership.

Edited August 18, 2011 by LizT

[Skye GSD]

Totally agree LizT - RESPONSIBLE PET OWNERSHIP - irrespective of breed.

[Crisovar]

But how do you even implement a ban on all Pitbull Crosses? Who decides which dog is a Pitbull cross and which is a Staffy or Amstaff cross? Or a Cane Corso cross?

You can't it is beyond impossible. Ridiculous.

Simple. Round up anything with a big head, smooth coat and weighing over 18kg that isn't ANKC registered and kill the lot. Anything red or brindle will be first in line.

And don't think it can't happen.

Exactly! does no one remember what happened in QLD??

Thousands of innocent dogs killed, because of the way someone thought they looked, THOUSANDS!

Crisovar - can you please clarify what you are referring to? Thanks

The thousands of dogs that were seized and killed in QLD starting in 2002(?)

These dogs were seized or forcibly surrendered simply on looks because the Qld government bowed to the hysteria to rid the state of the killer dogs.

There was no temperament testing no actual acts of aggression they were killed because they looked like pitbulls, baby puppies included. Some owners tried to save their dogs by sending them to safe states, some hid their dogs, some left the state with their dogs, but thousands were killed.

I don't know if the old BSL & EDBA threads are still available here on DOL, but there were many from that time.

[poodlefan]

The thousands of dogs that were seized and killed in QLD starting in 2002(?)

These dogs were seized or forcibly surrendered simply on looks because the Qld government bowed to the hysteria to rid the state of the killer dogs.

There was no temperament testing no actual acts of aggression they were killed because they looked like pitbulls, baby puppies included. Some owners tried to save their dogs by sending them to safe states, some hid their dogs, some left the state with their dogs, but thousands were killed.

I don't know if the old BSL & EDBA threads are still available here on DOL, but there were many from that time.

And all on the basis of attacks that were largely NOT committed by APBTs.

Geeze people could afford to learn from history.

[bulldogz4eva]

Steve Austin was just on Today, saying he believes it's now time to ban them nationally. His reasoning is that while any dog is capable of aggression there has just been one to many incidents now, with this style of dog.

Firstly my heart bleeds for the parents.None should have to go through that.Losing a child is a heartbreaking tragedy but to lose one in this way is indescribable and especially gut wrenching considering the families background.I can not imagine their greif especially as it was in their own home where they should feel safe.I dont know why the dog is still breathing.If I was their neighbour the owner of the dog would have been carrying its carcass home to bury it.

What does he mean by this style of dog?Considering it was a crossbreed yes this style of dog as most dog bites if the truth be known are by crossbred dogs becuase they are the most owned dog in the country.I am surprised by the comment

s of a so called dog trainer.Most but not all problem dogs are made not born and any dog trainer worth his salt would attest to this.Banning any breed is lulling the community into a false sense of security that dangerous dogs have been removed from the community and this isnt so especially when youare targetting a breed that is not responsible for the majority of attacks.

I would ask Steve if he believes everything he sees in the media and also what his experience as a dog trainer is with the American Pitbull Terrier becuase I have a couple of decades of hands on experience with the breed that differs.Unstable dogs are just that regardless of breed and need to be removed from the community.Banning the pitbull australia wide will do nothing to stem dog attacks.Children will continue to be maimed until they start handing out hefty penalties and or jail terms for irresponsible owners regardless of breed.I hope you got soe mileage out of your tv appearance Steve.I too was contacted to appear but declined as you are on a hiding to nothing defending the dogs and I know the truth so no point letting a media outlet twist my words and heavily edit them to distort the truth.

Edited August 18, 2011 by bulldogz4eva

[bulldogz4eva]

But don't you think there is something wrong when a breed has to be 'kept' in a certain way? Muzzled etc?

Yes, I think it wrong that society is ascribing responsibility for the dog's behaviour to the wrong end of the leash.

Not every individual in any breed "needs" to be kept in such a manner Ceilidh.

I would urge anyone who has pro breed ban views about dogs to read Karen Delise's excellent book Fatal Dog Attacks. Even a cursory browse will educate you that dangerous dogs are MADE, not born and that failure to train, failure to socialise and failure to manage are at the root of each and every one of these tragedies. Failure to supervise children is another very common factor but not in this case it seems.

Sadly many will never rad the book or educate themselves just go on beleiving what they see in the headlines.There are many factors that contribute to dog attacks breed being only one of them.

[GeckoTree]

come on mate this is Steve, you know they guy who lets Springer Spanials rip up cats on telly but makes sure the vid is cut in time.

[poodlefan]

Sadly many will never rad the book or educate themselves just go on beleiving what they see in the headlines.There are many factors that contribute to dog attacks breed being only one of them.

That was me before I bothered to educate myself on the issue. I wasn't as strongly anti as some but did believe the breed was inherently dangerous. I no longer believe it and share the heartbreak breed fanciers experience at seeing their dogs condemned.

Looks like the dog in this case wasn't a pitbull at all. Won't stop the hysteria though.

[Crisovar]

The thousands of dogs that were seized and killed in QLD starting in 2002(?)

These dogs were seized or forcibly surrendered simply on looks because the Qld government bowed to the hysteria to rid the state of the killer dogs.

There was no temperament testing no actual acts of aggression they were killed because they looked like pitbulls, baby puppies included. Some owners tried to save their dogs by sending them to safe states, some hid their dogs, some left the state with their dogs, but thousands were killed.

I don't know if the old BSL & EDBA threads are still available here on DOL, but there were many from that time.

And all on the basis of attacks that were largely NOT committed by APBTs.

Geeze people could afford to learn from history.

Can't let the facts get in the way of hysteria and vote gathering.

[rep628]

Does anyone know if there is an increase in the numbers of humans killed or seriously injured by dogs?

My perception is that the issue is ocurring with more frequency, but this may not be the reality.

I can tell you for a fact that it pales into insignificance compared with deaths and injuries caused by bicycles.

Lets ban those too shall we? ;)

Gee, great analogy! Difference is, most bicycles kill their owners (ie the rider), not other people.

For the record, I don't agree with banning a breed either as the dickhead owners (who are the fault) will just move onto another breed. However, if the responsible owners here are to save their breed, they need to recognise there is a problem with ownership, get better spokespeople in the media and work with authorities to find a solution, not get on the defensive every time there is an attack.

Hi Bindo

I have a female bully breed who outgoing & safe, obedient, is a puppy preschool tutor/regulator, an AVA Pet Pep dog, a Certified Therapy dog in hospitals and nursing homes who now has been greenlighted to be assessed as a Children's Reading Program Dog. How do you propose I become a spokesperson?

Because here's my problem, the moment I step up and broadcast what she (possibly**) is as a breed of dog, in some states she will be outright stripped from me and killed; others, muzzled in public. Now can you really imagine a Certified Therapy Dog laying next to a child at the childrens hospital in a muzzle?

No, so I quietly plod through my little circle of nursing homes, hospitals and primary school halls.

I am a responsible owner, and every day my dogs change minds. Be it the old school Lab breeder at one of the nursing homes I visit who now thinks the world of females and fully admits that those "staffy types can actually be alright", or the rather bogany tradie who walks up with admiration in his eyes to my Big Daddy Version of an Amstaff (cropped ears and all) - totally in love with his look (hey, do you breed your dog?) and super impressed with his loose lead walking & obedience skills. As a vet nurse and dog trainer, I can then quietly stress that my male's desexed and the importance of training & socialization - with the added note that if they don't do either of those things, they're a disservice to humanity and their dogs. For some reason, coming from a 51kg chick with a good looking dog makes them "get it". That's the thing, they often listen to me, I come at them as one of them, not an lab/poodle/whatever breeder who is marginalizing them.

Anti-BSL people have spokespeople; the AVA (& other int'l bodies), the RSPCA(ditto), and every major kennel club in the world - with the exception of ANKC (but I'm not pointing the finger at any individual member of course) have all made outright statements as to BSL not being a viable solution. But again, why should politicians listen to science and the experts, it's all about media spin.

I'm legitamitely asking you Bindo - without defense, without sarcasm. If you were in my position, what would you do?

**My female dog is a rescue, so we don't really know exactly what she is. I know her mother, and the kennel she came from, but we don't know sire.. and what good is that supposed to do you in this country?

[wings]

Sadly many will never rad the book or educate themselves just go on beleiving what they see in the headlines.There are many factors that contribute to dog attacks breed being only one of them.

That was me before I bothered to educate myself on the issue. I wasn't as strongly anti as some but did believe the breed was inherently dangerous. I no longer believe it and share the heartbreak breed fanciers experience at seeing their dogs condemned.

Looks like the dog in this case wasn't a pitbull at all. Won't stop the hysteria though.

I was the same PF before I came to DOL. I actually followed people's links, read them and listened. It was very eye opening and I'm now a strong supporter of Deed not Breed. I wish more people would take the time to understand because it will only be through understanding and education that real change will occur, but it seems the general public thinks knee jerk reactions will do that instead.

[bulldogz4eva]

This breed of dogs (pitbull) needs to be banned, period. They have been bred over many, many years to be fighting dogs. That is their pedigree, it is what they were bred to do. They weren't bred to be cuddly playthings for the kids to poke and prod. They fight, maim and kill and once they have experienced the taste of human blood they will more often than not be involved in repeat attacks. It is as simple as that and arguing otherwise is just plain stupid and irresponsible. There is no need for these kinds of vicious dogs to be kept as pets by anyone. I don't care how much of an expert on this breed someone claims to be, you cannot make this breed of dogs a safe breed. It is imprinted into their brains to fight and takes just one moment, one thing for them to be set off and then there's virtually no stopping them except a Police Officer and his gun. Jailing or fining owners is not the answer, as it will not save victims of these aggressive, powerfully built dogs. We need to be more proactive, rather than reacting only after someone has been maimed or killed. The only responsible course of action is for the breed to be banned and for breeding these dogs to also be banned until they cease to exist.

Sorry buddy but I think you watch a little bit too much tv and whats with the taste human blood thing.They are dogs not vampires.Thats like saying every dog that hunts pigs is unsafe and that would be wrong too.Any dog that tastes human blood and not in the context of protecting owner or property or owned by the services should take a dirtnap.

What kind of vicious dogs being owned as pets are we talking about?You cant make this breed a safe breed?Dude you dont know what you are talking about.I have owned them for a long long time I also have small children.Rule number one always surpervise them.Know your own dogs and un derstand animal behaviour and recognise signs.Dont own unstable dogs nor make excuses for them.It does not take just one thing to set them off at all.You make them sound like they are a crazed killing machine and if they were as you described no one would be able to own one as they would be uncontrollable and that just is not the case I am sorry to inform you.You have been blinded by the media sensationalism as have many.The real American Pitbull Terrier is not a child killer.

[bulldogz4eva]

May be that in Canada there were alot of bites from Retrievers, but how many were fatal? Zero - none! How many fatal pitbull attacks have we seen in the last few years? Far too many!

Mathew, it would be nice if you actually checked the facts before making such assertions.

Here, let me help.

OMG - a Beagle was responsible for a fatal attack.. and retriever mixes.. ban them!!!!

OMG look at the stats for the Pit Bulls

Pit bull TYPES... and lets face it, if its over 20kg, not readily identifiable as another breed, and powerfully built, its a pitbull. All dog attack researchers are very wary of breed attribution and all note that it isn't helpful in understanding what makes a dangerous dog.

Its a message few anti pitbull crusaders seem capable of grasping.

131 deaths attributed to the Pit Bull Terrier and 6 deaths attributed to the Pit Bull mixes or possibly types. 131 is by far the majority of fatalities. I think with those statistics and Cesar Milan's popularity the Pit Bull is probably more easily identifiable in USA and Canada than many other breeds. My focus in this forum topic is the Pitbull.

Pray tell where are those stats from?The US?What does that have to do with Australia?Do you know how many million pitbulls there are in the US?Do you know what passes for a pitbull in the US?The stats you should be interested in is no PUREBRED AMERICAN PITBULL TERRIER has been responsible for a single fatality in this country.Considering this was a crossbreed that stat is still intact.Why do you think that is?I'll let you do the math.Unfortuantely I dont think you will come up with the answer.

pS.I never get sick of posting that stat becuase of you people who actualy believe these dogs are mindless kiling machines.If this was so were are the fatalities here?Not one in 30 years pretty much sums it up.

[bulldogz4eva]

Ok, so the dog is not a pitbull.

Where does that leave us?

It leaves us in the same place we have always been.The politicians and the media wont let that get in the way.The monster must be burned at the stake becuase it makes great sensationalistic tv and vote grabbing for pollies all the while doing nothing but taking the heat off of other issues.The pitbull takes the blame again and thats all the headlines will say PITBULL PITBULL PITBULL.See if you say it enough times you will believe it too.

[ILoveBoundaries]

The owner will no doubt be charged, but will he do time?

I can live with 3 to 5 for him. The fact that the dog was unregistered really peeves me off - it screams irresponsible.

[bulldogz4eva]

No use arguing with you. You're obviously a pitbull fanboy and will not see anyone else's side of the story no matter how futile your argument is. I'm off for lunch.

Actually I'm a poodle and whippet owning female who's never owned and will never own an APBT and I live in one of the only places in Australia where it is still legal to own one.

Matthew, you show me ONE place anywhere in the world where banning breeds has lead to a decrease in dog fatalities. I can tell you now that you won't find one. How is that a "futile" argument?

Breed bans don't work. There are no simple solutions to the questions of what makes dangerous dogs. Until we as humans accept our responsiblity for creating such animals, children will continue to die.

It's quite simple, even you should be able to understand it. Ban the breed and it ceases to be around to kill or maim people. Yes, the dog was bred to fight other dogs, but in the absence of another dog, it'll attack anything that moves if it's in the frame of mind to do some damage. Your argument is as dumb as that regarding guns. "Guns don't kill people, people do". Take the gun out of the equation and there'd be a massive drop in the homicide rate. Same thing applies to this vicious breed. Take it out and there won't be any pitbulls to attack people.

Post edited to correct typo...

Sadly you dont understand the fundamentals of dog and human aggression.No a dog aggressive dog wll not automatically transfer its aggression to a person.It depends on the dog.I have separated dozens and necver had any redirect.Stable dogs dont attack people for no reason ecven highly dog aggresive ones.You dont have a clue what you are talking about.